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James Fenimore Cooper XXII

Glass Candles, Yi Ti, Azor Ahai, and Spring

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The swords of pale fire baffled me.  Pale fire looks like electric light.  Light that does not come from a flame, which is yellow fire.  The glass candles may not be lanterns at all but weapons.  If the original story was inspired by the lord of rings then why not a weapon that glows when the enemy is nearby.  In this case, when the enemy is stirring.  Dany is Azor Ahai and she will end up owning a glass candle before the end of this story.  Think about this.  A sword that drives away the darkness.  The darkness fled before the sword.  The glass candles are burning bright and only light drives away the darkness.  It is not a sword but to the ancients, anything long, pointed, and used against an enemy is a sword.  I think George Martin is being cute here.   Maybe he's a Star Wars fan.  Glass Candle = Light + Sword = Lightsaber = lights the darkness = Lightbringer.  Or think of it as a big flashlight.  Dany is not a swordsman but she can wield a glass candle to light the darkness ahead.

I should have written "why not a candle that illuminates when the enemies are active."  It was two years ago. 

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On 4/8/2020 at 7:16 PM, Finley McLeod said:

Take note, the difference in candles or swords if you prefer.  Those candles could be related to the gemstone families from the old empire.  Westerosi nobles have their sigils and banners.  The families from the old empire distinguish themselves by color.  And it is easier to distinguish colors by using something familiar, like gemstones.  It's not at all remarkable.  The Targaryens were distinguished by colors during the dance, the blacks and the greens.  So to use an example, the milky looking sword of House Dayne could have been the property of the family of the Opal emperor. 

The Daynes have peculiar physical appearance.  So funny that you should mention the possibility of a link between the candles and the old men in the hallway.  The Daynes are light blonde hair and blue eyed.  Dawn lit in Arthur's hands.  I know it's Dany who is descended from those kings but that doesn't mean they don't have other descendants still around.  I'm sold on the original poster's theory, Dany is the current Azor Ahai,  and I also believe there will be other heroes who will have their own weapons against the ice walkers.  Most of them will not become famous or get their names recorded in songs and stories but they will play important roles.  This Dayne kid, Ned Dayne should be one of them.  House Dayne could be related to the Opal king. 

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On 4/4/2020 at 10:47 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

We assumed in the first discussion that these men were not the Targaryen kings of Westeros.  The Targaryens do not name themselves or their reign in terms of gem stones.  These men were older, from a long time ago.  These men were Azor Ahai of his time.  Their clothes were ragged because they were living through the long night.  So why is Daenerys important to them?  I believe it is because she is Azor Ahai for this time.  She is the one who can "wake the dragon."  The dragon represents fire and light. 

Maybe those past versions of Azor Ahai murdered their wives in the hopes of hatching dragon eggs.  They failed.  Daenerys is important because she is the first Azor Ahai to successfully hatch dragon eggs. 

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On 4/11/2020 at 10:49 AM, The Lord of the Crossing said:

The Daynes have peculiar physical appearance.  So funny that you should mention the possibility of a link between the candles and the old men in the hallway.  The Daynes are light blonde hair and blue eyed.  

No, Edric Dayne has light blonde hair and dark blue eyes.
Ashara Dayne had dark hair and purple eyes.
Gerold Dayne has silver hair with a streak of black, and purple eyes.

There is not enough information to define a 'typical' Dayne colouring.

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@Wm Portnoy This change in gender is the thing that will correct the wrongs of the past.  Nothing will change unless the dynamic between people changes. 

@Finley McLeod The parallels for sure exists.  It is only one of the many.  Dany and Jon are parallels too because they were both tossed outside of civilization.  The Dothraki and the Wildlings.  And they have had to adapt to survive and eventually thrive among the savages. 

@Narsil4 Dawn ends the night and brings the light.  I love the theory of Ned Dayne needing to stick the sword in Arya.

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The oily black stones are spread throughout the world.  Oldtown and the Iron Isles just to list two areas.  Those lands are not corrupt.  The stones themselves are not cursed nor tainted.  Maybe it was a common stone long ago and made for a convenient building material.  The ancients would build with available material.  I look for a simpler explanation.  Children and animals are sacrificed.  A city where nothing is forbidden will attract the worst of mankind. 

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On 4/5/2020 at 12:14 PM, Wm Portnoy said:

I see a gender reversal going on with the kings in the hallway and Daenerys.  Dragons are not bound by gender.  That may be the advantage for Daenerys. 

"He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi.  Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat.  A thousand thousand dragons poured forth and drank the fire of the sun.  That is why dragons breathe flame.  One day, the other moon will kiss the sun too, and it will crack and the dragons will return."  [Doreah]

"Moon is no egg.  Moon is god, woman wife of the sun." [Irri]

In this case, Khal Drogo was the one who got too close to Daenerys and got burned.  Fire consumes after all.  His death brought Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal.  Daenerys represent the Sun, the Maiden Made Of Light.  Khal Drogo was the Moon.  It is easy to see why Qaithe wants her to go to Asshai.  She can bring the sun back to that darkened city. 

 

Proven when she brought back the dragons.  

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On 4/11/2020 at 10:56 AM, Aline de Gavrillac said:

Maybe those past versions of Azor Ahai murdered their wives in the hopes of hatching dragon eggs.  They failed.  Daenerys is important because she is the first Azor Ahai to successfully hatch dragon eggs. 

Yes

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The return to Vaes Dothrak counts as going east.  Quaithe is right because the slave trade will not stop unless the Dothraki are stopped.  The op piqued my curiosity about Yin.  I don't think Dany will be going there but I can wish.  It will be preferable to me to do that instead getting more chapters in the eyrie and the north.  

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On 4/5/2020 at 3:03 AM, Bowen Marsh said:

A wiser man is the Catholic priest who said "Christ will never be accepted here. A pale man from a desert country where it never rains".  Totally different setting from the rainforest.  The tribe could never understand.  Will never understand. 

I really recommend the documentary film Ex-Paje. https://www.imdb.com/title/tt7754564/

It's a beautiful piece about a very sad situation, and what it pictures unfortunately contradicts the statements I quoted above. 

While I'm not convinced Melissandre will be successful in her converting efforts, this is not the reason why.

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Now that you've re-brought this up I think Daenerys is definitely now on MY OWN list of possible candidates for Azor Ahai along with Jon Snow - Nissa Nissa being Ygritte and the Night's Watch being Lightbringer. It is very plausable that Dany is indeed Azor Ahai with Khal Drogo being Nissa Nissa but what is her Lightbringer? I'll be soo happy if they do go to Yi Ti and Asshai because :

 To go north, you must journey south, to reach the west you must go east. To go forward you must go back and to touch the light you must pass beneath the shadow.

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On 4/5/2020 at 12:14 PM, Wm Portnoy said:

I see a gender reversal going on with the kings in the hallway and Daenerys.  Dragons are not bound by gender.  That may be the advantage for Daenerys. 

"He told me the moon was an egg, Khaleesi.  Once there were two moons in the sky, but one wandered too close to the sun and cracked from the heat.  A thousand thousand dragons poured forth and drank the fire of the sun.  That is why dragons breathe flame.  One day, the other moon will kiss the sun too, and it will crack and the dragons will return."  [Doreah]

"Moon is no egg.  Moon is god, woman wife of the sun." [Irri]

In this case, Khal Drogo was the one who got too close to Daenerys and got burned.  Fire consumes after all.  His death brought Drogon, Viserion, and Rhaegal.  Daenerys represent the Sun, the Maiden Made Of Light.  Khal Drogo was the Moon.  It is easy to see why Qaithe wants her to go to Asshai.  She can bring the sun back to that darkened city. 

 

Awesome connection between the Maiden and the sun.  

Quaithe may know where to get more dragon eggs.  She wants Dany to hatch them.  That is what Dany will find in the east.  

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On 4/13/2020 at 10:25 AM, The Gizzard of Oz said:

@Wm Portnoy This change in gender is the thing that will correct the wrongs of the past.  Nothing will change unless the dynamic between people changes. 

@Finley McLeod The parallels for sure exists.  It is only one of the many.  Dany and Jon are parallels too because they were both tossed outside of civilization.  The Dothraki and the Wildlings.  And they have had to adapt to survive and eventually thrive among the savages. 

@Narsil4 Dawn ends the night and brings the light.  I love the theory of Ned Dayne needing to stick the sword in Arya.

Or the woman kills the man.  The legend has it, the red murdered the blue.  To correct the wrongs of the past or to finally get justice, the blue could kill the red.  Things could get really dark and twisted if the redstone emperor was an Azor Ahai and his betrayal caused the long darkness.  The empress this time around may have to kill the emperor. 

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On 4/16/2020 at 6:40 PM, 867-5309 said:

Awesome connection between the Maiden and the sun.  

Quaithe may know where to get more dragon eggs.  She wants Dany to hatch them.  That is what Dany will find in the east.  

One of the going thoughts proposes the origins of the eggs is none other than Dragonstone.  The ones stolen long ago and sold.  Qaithe in another life stole the eggs and used the proceeds to custom build ships.

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On 4/8/2020 at 7:23 PM, Finley McLeod said:

I love the parallel roles of Daenerys and Bran.  Quaithe is basically telling Daenerys to go to the east and defend the lands.  She has thousands of newly released slaves in training to become soldiers.  How cool would it be to send them to the Five Forts and build up the defense.  Bran's job is to pick up where his brothers failed miserably and defend the north.  Quaithe and Brynden too are parallel. 

The parallels go much deeper than that.  Bran is told to forget his dreams of knighthood.  He is told to stay on that north side of the wall.  Daenerys is made to lose her dreams of motherhood and family.  Qaithe is also telling her to go eastward.  The slaves want her to stay with them.  If Bran stays in the north, Daenerys will stay in the east to maintain the symmetry.

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It is mentioned in the books that greensee'ers had either marry a tree or they die young. Or it is possible that Bran could never leave that cave now when his powers were activated by that "Jojen paste".

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5 hours ago, Loose Bolt said:

It is mentioned in the books that greensee'ers had either marry a tree or they die young. Or it is possible that Bran could never leave that cave now when his powers were activated by that "Jojen paste".

That's one more reason to take away the use of his legs.  So he can't walk out of that cave.  He's still free in more ways than not.  His mind can leave the cave even when his body cannot.  He will have to find another wolf to mate with when the hormones kick in.

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On 4/18/2020 at 7:07 PM, Rigatoni No. 17 said:

The parallels go much deeper than that.  Bran is told to forget his dreams of knighthood.  He is told to stay on that north side of the wall.  Daenerys is made to lose her dreams of motherhood and family.  Qaithe is also telling her to go eastward.  The slaves want her to stay with them.  If Bran stays in the north, Daenerys will stay in the east to maintain the symmetry.

Parallels.  They won't touch.  Could never touch.  Maybe that is the point.  Their arcs may travel in the same direction but they will never touch.  Fire and ice will always stay apart.  Should stay apart.  Fire and ice do not mix. 

On 4/18/2020 at 11:47 PM, Loose Bolt said:

It is mentioned in the books that greensee'ers had either marry a tree or they die young. Or it is possible that Bran could never leave that cave now when his powers were activated by that "Jojen paste".

They are supposedly weak.  Poor in health.  The trees keep them alive.  The weaker the body the stronger the ability, so says the man.  Bran, however, was born normal.  He was weakened due to an accident.  Alright it was not an accident.  The point is, Bran was not born weak.  His weakness was artificially induced via push-through-the-window.  Bran is special. 

He will have to be carried out of that cave.  Meera won't do it.  Hodor might.  Meera will die and there will be no one who can stop Bran from leaving.  Won't it be wonderfully messed up if Bran kills Meera and Bloodraven. 

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On 4/13/2020 at 10:25 AM, The Gizzard of Oz said:

@Wm Portnoy This change in gender is the thing that will correct the wrongs of the past.  Nothing will change unless the dynamic between people changes. 

@Finley McLeod The parallels for sure exists.  It is only one of the many.  Dany and Jon are parallels too because they were both tossed outside of civilization.  The Dothraki and the Wildlings.  And they have had to adapt to survive and eventually thrive among the savages. 

@Narsil4 Dawn ends the night and brings the light.  I love the theory of Ned Dayne needing to stick the sword in Arya.

Parallels never cross.  The two elements are not compatible.  Any offspring from such a pairing cannot exists.  Or better to say, should not exists.  And if one does exists would be an affront to both sides.

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