Stayin' Alive - Covid-19 #10

[RhaenysBee]

4 hours ago, Buckwheat said:

It is an unnecessary absurdity. Two hours one way, makes 4 hours travel just to wave at somebody over the fence? I don't think it would be worth it even in better circumstances, and it is not advisable now. Call your grandmother over the phone and sing happy birthday to her.  And make an effort to visit her after this madness is finished.

They started talking about loosening some of the restrictions here next week, but no details as to what this would entail yet.

The two hours is the total travel, but yes. We already called her and wished her happy birthday. And that’s the thing. If there wasn’t an extreme situation and she wouldn’t make such a self-pity fest out of it, we wouldn’t visit her either. We would just call and meet whenever we meet. 
 

here the talk is about more restrictions and a potential total lockdown, as we are experiencing a rise in new cases and city residents shit on precautions and restrictions. 

2 hours ago, Isis said:

Obviously, no. That's DoH guidance. Don't visit relatives or friends. It's not essential. It's not a conundrum. 

Use the phone or internet to do birthday greetings. Send flowers, a cake, presents etc. Don't visit. 

Essential is difficult to define, people tend to twist and turn it to serve the monetary interests and intentions - hence the idea. But I agree with you. 
 

anyway, all the friends I asked say it’s okay and we should do it, so your kind responses at least reassure me that I’m not necessarily overreacting. 

[Toth]

1 hour ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Do you have a kitchen/dining room table you could set up on? If not, i would just recommend trying to set up your bed in such a way as to be as comfortable as pssoible. Rest your back on the wall/headboard, stack up books to rest your laptop kn to be an appropriate height etc. 

The ideal situation (which from your post you obviously know) is to set up at a hard workstation, use a chair with full back support etc. But where thats not possible there are compromises/workarounds 

You know... I just realized that I actually have a hard time keeping my head rested. That's likely an important clue... I now lowered my chair to get my eyes more level with the laptop. Let's see whether I can keep it that way or whether I keep stupidly jerking it forward at every opportunity. I still have a bunch of mails to write after all...

Thanks a lot.^^

[Raja]

18 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

Here's a link and a quote to one study of 37,250 patients:

https://www.jlr.org/content/59/8/1519.full

I'll keep looking.

eta: the role of cholesterol in fighting infections has been studied for a long time, I gather. I tried searching cholesterol and infections.

I would really caution against studies like this one - this study looked at a specific population that is not at all representative - end stage renal disease patients who were obviously non-covid given the time the study was conducted. That is a very specific population that is being considered which is not representative of the general population.

As an aside, here's an article from the guardian about hydroxychloroquine that I think does a decent job at explaining why Trump should not be doing what he's been doing for the last couple of weeks.

 

[Isis]

1 hour ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Ack, this is frustrating because I'm not quite sure how to articulate what I'm trying to get at. Basically, we shouldn't assume that just because 50,000 tests (for example) have been conducted, it means 50,000 people have been tested, right? Because I see that conflation being made quite often.

The answer is we don't know. Depends entirely on context, e.g. I would think that screening (eg at airports) would be a single sample and testing in hospitals might be multiple samples (different sample sites). Unless we are told that we can't draw any certain conclusions.

I would say - if I was told 50K tests and 5000 positive tests, I'd assume 10% of people tested were positive unless I was told otherwise.

This is a good example of why it's not straightforward to compare data from different countries.

Someone was arguing with me on Twitter yesterday that if the NHS can't release figures for 'recoveries' then it's a shambles. We went round and round while I tried to explain that's not a metric they routinely use so it would mean getting someone to basically start a new data analysis project...right now. They kept telling me 'but it's simple!' If it's new work, then it's not simple. Not at the moment.

[Zorral]

3 hours ago, Toth said:

Well, thanks and you are right, it is likely my posture. I am working with my laptop, but I have put it on a wooden stand and am using an ergonomic mouse to limit the stress on my hand. I am also sitting at a desk with a decent chair, but unfortunately I am sharing that one with my mother and when it is blocked I have to retreat onto my bed, which is literally suicide and it's my own fault for doing that.

Get on the floor, on a mat or even a towel.  Do those back and neck stretches front and back.  Most of all get off the screen for some hours every day.  That alone will kill you no matter how ergonomically it's done.  Stretch, stretch, stretch all your muscles, in isolated groups and together, from your toes to the top of your head.  Really.  I'm trying so hard to coach this with my partner, who is frackin' addicted to the screen, and just can't stop.  It's not doing anybody any good.  It's not like the news is improving for a long time.  For a long time we're stuck here.

 

[Frey family reunion]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

As an aside, here's an article from the guardian about hydroxychloroquine that I think does a decent job at explaining why Trump should not be doing what he's been doing for the last couple of weeks.

This is the danger of politicizing medicine.  Trump was wrong in saying that this could be the biggest game changer in medicine, or whatever words he used to that effect.  But major publications (usa today and the Washington Post among others) running headlines that Trump is peddling snake oil is equally reckless.  As is overstating or understating the dangerousness of the drug.  Yes the drug does have potentially harmful side effects that the doctor should inform the patient about.  My wife has always been ambivalent about having to take the drug because of the harmful side effects it could have on her vision.  

Governor Cuomo is probably the better example of how to address the issue.  He requested a fourteen day supply back in March 22.  Recently he cautiously reported positive anecdotal reports that the drug may be having positive effects and was in negotiations with receiving additional medicine as long as it could be ensured that the supplies would remain available for patients dealing with lupus and rheumatoid arthritis.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

My tenants and I came to an agreement of 20% rent drop for 6 months. 

How many units do you rent? 

[Pebble thats Stubby]

4 hours ago, Alarich II said:

And whose parents actually survive Star Wars?

Padmea's?   They certainly survived Padmea, and maybe even survived their grandchildren.   At least the is no evidence of their deaths.

[Frey family reunion]

Just now, Pebble thats Stubby said:

Padmea's?   They certainly survived Padmea, and maybe even survived their grandchildren.   At least the is no evidence of their deaths.

Didn't their planet get blown up?  

[Pebble thats Stubby]

Just now, Frey family reunion said:

Didn't their planet get blown up?  

Naboo?   I'm not really sure which planters star killer base blew up, so I guess it's possible.  Still there is a good chance they would have died of natraul causes by then since their great grandchild was an adult.

[Frey family reunion]

4 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

Naboo?   I'm not really sure which planters star killer base blew up, so I guess it's possible.  Still there is a good chance they would have died of natraul causes by then since their great grandchild was an adult.

Oh, yea Naboo, I think I get that confused with Alderan.  I've tried to put some of the prequels out of my memory.

[BigFatCoward]

22 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

How many units do you rent? 

Just one flat. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

12 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Just one flat. 

My father rents many duplexes that he's acquired over the years. I'm curious how things will go. 

(edited a bad joke) 

[Jen'ari]

10 hours ago, Castellan said:

There is a great book called The Plague and I by Betty MacDonald about her time in a TB sanitarium in 1937-38. She was lucky and could leave, cured. Her treatment was extreme bedrest for a long period, as they knew in some people the lungs sort of enclosed the infected parts off so it ceased to spread, and they wanted you basically to make minimum use of your lungs and stay very calm. She emerged quite fat. There were a lot of operations they performed also to give relief although they sound extremely gruesome, like basically deflating a lung and stuff like that. The purpose of the santoriums was also it seems, indirectly, from the book, to get people out of circulation. Mothers got priority and while in her case her children could stay with her mother, in other cases the kinds went into a children's home on site. I presume they got priority partly to protect their children from them. There are different types of TB - elsewhere I have seen them described as galloping (like the Brontes) or a slower variety that George Orwell and Katherine Mansfield had. In the book Betty MacDonald mentions a bit about different types but not using that loose classification.

Thanks, it does sound like an interesting book that I will add to my reading list. TB seems to be something that doesn’t get thought of as still being around much, well in the U.K. anyway, I know it is much more prevalent in the developing world still.

7 hours ago, Isis said:

It's got a lot to do with your immune system. Many people have been exposed to it and recovered (thanks to their immune system), but then if they become immunocompromised later in life it can re-emerge. Co-infection with HIV is a problem too. Once you have it the drug treatment is a long process (mycobacteria are slow growers and so drugs that target their replication are also slow to act), plus treatment involves up to five drugs (to ensure that drug resistant forms are covered and also that treatment does not create any new drug resistant strains). At any rate, it would be preferable for infected people to be treated so that they don't risk infecting others (possibly more vulnerable people).

I’m not too knowledgeable on the treatments, is it similar to Syphilis in that it’s a very long antibiotic treatment that spans several months I’m guessing?.

I know it was a big killer throughout history, it’s really interesting to know that some peoples own immune systems are able to fight it off on their own too which I guess would have been the case throughout history too.

 

 

5 hours ago, maarsen said:

He recovered just in time for his home country to be occupied by the Nazis. Yeah, tough times. 

Very tough times, he must have been a very strong person to get through both his recovery and occupation.

[Toth]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

Get on the floor, on a mat or even a towel.  Do those back and neck stretches front and back.  Most of all get off the screen for some hours every day.  That alone will kill you no matter how ergonomically it's done.  Stretch, stretch, stretch all your muscles, in isolated groups and together, from your toes to the top of your head.  Really.  I'm trying so hard to coach this with my partner, who is frackin' addicted to the screen, and just can't stop.  It's not doing anybody any good.  It's not like the news is improving for a long time.  For a long time we're stuck here.

I actually ended up looking for exercise videos against neck pain and this those exercises for about half an hour and I am absolutely stunned. My pain has diminished greatly. Or at least it wandered down from the head to the shoulders that are now burning like fire.

... an exchange I would take any day.^^

But it left me wonder as a Computer Science teacher. Since I am currently busy furnishing an online learning platform for my students, I wonder whether it is reasonable for me to add a few of those exercises to the dashboard to help them. I am sure students switching back and forth between homeschooling and videogames will be in dire need of that as well.

[Fragile Bird]

34 minutes ago, Raja said:

I would really caution against studies like this one - this study looked at a specific population that is not at all representative - end stage renal disease patients who were obviously non-covid given the time the study was conducted. That is a very specific population that is being considered which is not representative of the general population.

There are pages and pages of links to studies about cholesterol levels in patients fighting infections, this is just one of many that saw a relationship between cholesterol levels and the ability to fight infections. The fact they are renal patients is irrelevant, the way cholesterol works in your body doesn't change because you are a renal patient.

I am not making any claims about Covid-19 patients with the link. Chinese researchers reported that after looking at 2,000 blood samples they found people with higher levels of cholesterol dealt with Covid-19 better. 2,000 samples was obviously a big enough sample they thought they should report it. The possible role cholesterol plays in fighting infections has been studied for decades. There was a study from the 1990s that I looked at last week when I first mentioned the Chinese story, of residents in nursing homes showing better outcomes fighting the flu in patients with higher cholesterol levels. No Covid-19 back then, either. That does not mean it's irrelevant.

Cardiovascular disease and kidney disease can be linked, which is why cholesterol levels are studied in both cases. High blood pressure can force the heart to work harder, damaging the heart and damaging kidneys because more blood is being pushed through the kidneys. In many renal patients it's a chicken or egg situation, did the patient have damaged kidneys because they had high blood pressure, or high blood pressure because they had damaged kidneys. (My mom was a dialysis patient for many years).

Not all people with CVD develop kidney problems, and not all kidney patients develop CVD. Research has shown that dialysis patients with higher cholesterol have fewer hospitalizations and live longer than dialysis patients with lower cholesterol. I'm pretty sure not only the Chinese are going to study cholesterol levels in Covid-19 survivors, because cholesterol does appear to play a role in fighting infection. 

 

[Raja]

11 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Chinese researchers reported that after looking at 2,000 blood samples they found people with higher levels of cholesterol dealt with Covid-19 better. 2,000 samples was obviously a big enough sample they thought they should report it.

You should provide a link for this if you have one

Also, not sure why you're going on about hypertension & ESRD - I am well aware of all that. I don't really want to get into a back and forth on that as it's not pertinent to this thread.

 

[maarsen]

36 minutes ago, Jen'ari said:

Thanks, it does sound like an interesting book that I will add to my reading list. TB seems to be something that doesn’t get thought of as still being around much, well in the U.K. anyway, I know it is much more prevalent in the developing world still.

I’m not too knowledgeable on the treatments, is it similar to Syphilis in that it’s a very long antibiotic treatment that spans several months I’m guessing?.

I know it was a big killer throughout history, it’s really interesting to know that some peoples own immune systems are able to fight it off on their own too which I guess would have been the case throughout history too.

 

 

Very tough times, he must have been a very strong person to get through both his recovery and occupation.

The part where he was in a Nazi labour camp, bombed and sentenced to hang at 16 years of age was the tough part. 

[BigFatCoward]

After weeks of the situation being an abstract problem, one of my staff lost both their parents within 48 hours. What the fuck do you even say to someone in that situation? 

[Fragile Bird]

4 minutes ago, Raja said:

You should provide a link for this if you have one

Also, not sure why you're going on about hypertension & ESRD - I am well aware of all that. I don't really want to get into a back and forth on that as it's not pertinent to this thread.

 

Lol, you haven't been paying attention! A couple of us reported seeing the story, but we can we find the damn thing now? The problem is you end up following link after link, and you might note the details but not save the link.

The discussion about cholesterol, CVD and renal failure was put in there because you said the report was irrelevant. The question originally started with discovering the Chinese report and then finding out cholesterol levels have long been researched as an indicator of a person's ability to fight infection. Ormond asked what kind of cholesterol. I linked the report about the renal study because it specifically detailed it included different kinds of cholesterol. I don't recall that the story from China got into the details.