US Politics: Biden vs. Trump and Corona, Thunderdome Society at Its Very Best

[Larry of the Lawn]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

No, it's the precise answer. Or please explain to me why I am wrong. 

Because you're telling everyone to wait and push for tiny reforms that eventually get to universal healthcare.  I don't think it's unreasonable to ask when or how.  

Q:When are we going to get there? 

A: When we get there*

 

The * indicates a bullshit yet true answer 

[Mexal]

1 minute ago, Altherion said:

It's clearly not obvious enough for him to lose the primary so I don't see why it would be different for the general election.

Especially when compared against Trump.

[Pecan]

1 minute ago, Altherion said:

It's clearly not obvious enough for him to lose the primary so I don't see why it would be different for the general election.

Well, his campaign's strategy has been to hide him. That was the primary strategy for the most part. He did very few appearances.

[Guest]

Just now, Altherion said:

It's clearly not obvious enough for him to lose the primary so I don't see why it would be different for the general election.

I don't buy in to the cognitive decline thing; Biden's always been somewhat loopy. 

I will say, however, that IF Biden is in cognitive decline, then that can go off a cliff rather quickly. My great-aunt has Alzheimers, and she went from being classified as a mild case, to now needing almost full-time care in just the past 6 months.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Because you're telling everyone to wait and push for tiny reforms that eventually get to universal healthcare.  I don't think it's unreasonable to ask when or how.  

Q:When are we going to get there? 

A: When we get there*

 

The * indicates a bullshit yet true answer 

Your when and how may have been sped up, since we're spilling money over the bar after all. 

And please, have I said anything that goes against this?

Or suggested that I oppose universal healthcare? 

[Larry of the Lawn]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Your when and how may have been sped up, since we're spilling money over the bar after all. 

And please, have I said anything that goes against this?

Or suggested that I oppose universal healthcare? 

That goes against what?  Answering the question?  

You've been advocating a stalled "incremental" approach to universal healthcare / m4a for awhile now.  I'm asking you, what you think is a realistic timeline, or pathway, for that to be achieved.  "When it happens" isn't really an answer.  

 

[OldGimletEye]

12 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Because you're telling everyone to wait and push for tiny reforms that eventually get to universal healthcare.  I don't think it's unreasonable to ask when or how.  

Q:When are we going to get there? 

A: When we get there*

 

The * indicates a bullshit yet true answer 

I would say push for big reforms to get universal healthcare done.

Make small reforms to kill employer sponsored healthcare. Also, make a series of medium reforms to make the price of healthcare cheaper.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, larrytheimp said:

That goes against what?  Answering the question?  

You've been advocating a stalled "incremental" approach to universal healthcare / m4a for awhile now.  I'm asking you, what you think is a realistic timeline, or pathway, for that to be achieved.  "When it happens" isn't really an answer.  

 

Yes Larry, it is the sole answer, like it or not. When it can be made politically feasible, and ideally popular, it will happen, and not a day before then. 

Accept that. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

Yes Larry, it is the sole answer, like it or not. When it can be made politically feasible, and ideally popular, it will happen, and not a day before then. 

Accept that. 

No.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

5 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

No.

Then skip putting the lamb's blood on your door. Would that do you well either? 

[mcbigski]

11 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

The right wing idea of "big government" is simply "when government helps people who don't look like me."

There are no men who look like me.  There's just me.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

There are no men who look like me.  There's just me.

Seems like I'm looking at a boy then. 

[mcbigski]

Sick burn.  It is an old picture by now admittedly.

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

Sick burn.  It is an old picture by now admittedly.

I've always thought your avatar was some picture of Sean Hayes.

[Lollygag]

2 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I think this is exactly what they should do where they control all the levers of government. It will have the added benefit of putting pressure on the states that don't. I'd be interested to see if DeWine or Hogan in Maryland or Baker in MA would get behind such efforts.

I'm not worried about DeWine and LaRose (Sec of State) based on how they've handled things thus far. They already wanted to automatically send out ballot requests to any registered voter who hadn't yet participated in early voting or already sent in an absentee ballot but a state law prevented it, so LaRose's only recourse was sending out a post card to all voters (there's a Republican down-ballot primary going on too) which told everyone how to request an absentee ballot. They did get it out earlier than the projected mid-April estimation as ours arrived days ago.

https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/6823508/2020PrimaryPostcard.pdf

https://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/ohio-dewine-larose-primary-voting-bill

Quote

DeWine, who “applauded” the bill’s passage on Twitter, initially worked with LaRose and Lieutenant Governor Jon Husted (R) to lay out a plan for the primary, which was originally pushed back from March 17 to June 2 amid the coronavirus outbreak. The legislature’s new plan would significantly move that election day up to April 28.

In their original plan, postage-paid absentee ballot applications would have been sent automatically to all registered voters in the state who had not yet voted. Voters would have sent the applications in and received a ballot in a prepaid envelope to be postmarked by June 1, at the latest.

The bill passed by the legislature Monday, by comparison, is much more restrictive. 

It requires the extra step of LaRose’s office designing and mailing out an informational postcard about how to obtain an absentee ballot, rather than sending out the applications automatically. Voters then must print out the application themselves, or ask their county board to send one, and rustle up postage to send it back. Only then would they receive a ballot and have to get it into the mail — all by April 27.

LaRose estimated that the postcards alone wouldn’t hit most Ohioans’ mailboxes until the second week of April. 

Mike Brickner, Ohio director for All Voting is Local, condemned the legislature’s plan.

He predicted that county boards of elections would be flooded with absentee ballot requests, an issue compounded by their operating with a “skeleton staff.” He added that even if LaRose gets the postcards out to voters by the first week of April — a best-case “breakneck speed” scenario — unless the postal service, overwhelmed elections board and voters act quickly and completely accurately, many ballots will likely blow the deadline.

“I think the real question is if this could happen during optimal circumstances,” he said. “And we need to recognize that these are not optimal circumstances.”

LaRose also appeared unenthusiastic about the plan. “Today my friends in the legislature did the right thing by extending deadlines and postponing requirements on everything from taxes to school testing, so it’s disappointing that they’ve instead chosen to significantly reduce the time provided for Ohio to bring this primary to a close,” LeRose said in a statement, calling the original plan “preferable.”

He’d previously sent a letter to lawmakers telling them that it was not realistic to get ballots into the hands of voters and give them ample time to return them before June 2. He also warned of the unconstitutionality of forcing voters to pay for their right to vote, in the form of postage.

“No date before June 2nd is logistically possible,” LeRose wrote. “We simply cannot put a postage-paid absentee ballot request in the hands of each eligible voter and afford them reasonable time to cast a ballot any earlier. A plan that does not afford every Ohioan an opportunity to vote free of charge would be unconstitutional.”

DeWine said in a tweet that he “looks forward to signing it soon.” 

 

 

For OH at least, I'm more worried about the Legislature following Trump's lead and also all of internal technicalities needed to make that change. Folks need to get on their state government officials NOW. Larry Householder is a Trumpist Speaker of the House but he has a rep of being pragmatic and working with Dems sometimes so not sure how he'll align, but he's already raised the fraud issue.

The first thing is that every state needs to go over their internal laws with a fine-toothed comb. Some obstructions will be easy to remove but states also need to be proactive in looking for any roadblock that Trumpists might use and also to address the good-faith lawsuits flying around Ohio right now making sure changes address needs for everyone.

https://www.governing.com/next/Better-Safe-Than-Sorry-Ohio-May-Transition-Election-to-Vote-from-Home.html

 

Quote

Better Safe Than Sorry: Ohio May Transition Election to Vote-from-Home

Last month Ohio had a last-minute switch to a vote-by-mail election due to coronavirus fears and officials want to avoid that happening again in the fall. Assuring a smooth November election requires planning now.

...

 

Householder, the Ohio House Speaker, said the possibility of fraud is a consideration as lawmakers consider their elections plan.

“There’s a lot of people in the state of Ohio who really like to go to the polls on Election Day,” he said. “It’s a holiday for them. And also, we’re very concerned about fraud, frankly. It makes the system a lot easier to try to manipulate.”

On a statistical level, that statement hasn’t been borne out in Ohio’s experience.

In the 2012 and 2016 general elections, then-Secretary of Secretary of State Jon Husted, who’s now lieutenant governor, mailed absentee ballot applications to every registered voter in the state.

In both elections, 1.9 million Ohioans, about a third of the overall vote, cast mail ballots.

Husted, a Republican, oversaw voter-fraud investigations after both elections.

In 2012, his office found 132 cases of possible fraud that were referred to prosecutors. In 2016, they found 52 such cases. Both are a minute fraction of the roughly 5.6 million ballots that were cast. Husted, now Ohio’s lieutenant governor, testified before an elections-integrity panel appointed by President Donald Trump in 2017 that voter fraud “exists” but is “rare.”

...

DeWine was asked about Trump’s comments during his coronavirus briefing on Wednesday. He declined to weigh in on them.

But he said Ohio’s vote-by-mail system is safe.

“It’s safe for people to vote in Ohio, and we’re asking them to do that,” he said.

An example of internal issues states need to work on right now if there's going to be a backup plan for entirely mail-in voting by November.

Quote

Another possible issue is the collection of completed ballots.

Under current law, only a voter or their immediate family member is allowed to handle a completed ballot. LaRose briefly loosened these rules in March, ordering that boards of elections workers could pick up ballots completed by nursing home residents and people who are hospitalized, as long as a member of each party was present. That was before the election was canceled altogether.

Marc Elias, the top legal representative to Hillary Clinton’s 2016 presidential campaign and Sen. Sherrod Brown’s 2018 re-election campaign, in The Atlantic this week called on states to permit community groups to gather completed ballots.

But Ockerman, the official representing Ohio county elections boards, said one elections official he spoke with recently mentioned the need for clear rules on who can handle completed ballots and who can’t. Some of the more prominent examples of election fraud have involved “ballot harvesting.”

“There are a lot of groups out there who want to be helpful,” he said. “But what about nefarious groups that might collect ballots and not return them?”

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

Sick burn.  It is an old picture by now admittedly.

I hope you have your own portrait, then. 

[mcbigski]

 

 

20 minutes ago, DMC said:

I've always thought your avatar was some picture of Sean Hayes.

he s a little like me but shorter and more famous.  Probably more wealthy too.  I bet he can't hammer box wine like me either.  But we look deep within in quarantine and find our true selves.

[DMC]

26 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

I bet he can't hammer box wine like me either.

I grew up on box wine - it was my mother's stash in the basement refrigerator.  But I always favored those Carlo Rossi gallon jugs when I used to drink wine.  Now that I have to drink either wine or beer, can't find those anywhere.  Fucken Pennsylvania.

[ThinkerX]

2 hours ago, Triskele said:

Possibly literally?  There is no chance that this happens.   

How short thy memory is, monkey.  Remember the near universal outrage the last time the republicans attempted to repeal the ACA?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Congressional_baseball_shooting

 

Other republican congressmen were physically attacked while visiting constituents during that period. Got to the point where several basically barricaded themselves in their houses.  The ACA actually does go away, then at least some will be in a world of literal pain.