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King Adrian Storm

How is Dany's storyline going to fit into 2 books?

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I don't see how George will fit Dany's storyline in TWOW and ADOS. 

TWOW will have Dany taking control of the Dothraki, then returning to Meereen. She'll have to deal with all of the politics in Meereen before she can leave. She has to meet Tyrion, Victarion, Moqorro, and Marwyn. And after all of that, she'll finally sail to Westeros, which is gonna take a long time. I predict she'll get to Westeros at the end of the book. Now onto ADOS, she has to meet Euron who's in the South, Aegon who's in Kingslanding, and Jon who's in the North. Plus she has to fight the Others. How can she go all across Westeros in 1 book. 

My prediction is she reaches kingslanding, and has some sort of interaction with Aegon. Soon after she travels North to meet Jon and fight the Others, I believe there will be some sort of romance between the two, but how could he fit that in in time. After they defeat the others I think they'll travel south to Kingslanding, where Euron has killed Aegon and taken the throne for himself (a scouring of the shire, type of thing). 

GRRM has a big task here, and this is just for one character.

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My guess (we can't really know for sure) is that she does all her Mereen stuuf in the first half of TWOW, sack Volantis at around the 2/3 mark and finally arrive in Westeros at the end of TWOW, starting her conflict with FAegon. At the beginning of ADOS she defeats FAegon, and at the 1/3 mark she meets Jon and agrees to go fight for him, reaching the North at the 1/2 mark falling in love with him. Her ark end there at around the 3/4 mark of ADOS as she is killed by Jon.

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Posted (edited)
52 minutes ago, King Adrian Storm said:

I don't see how George will fit Dany's storyline in TWOW and ADOS. 

TWOW will have Dany taking control of the Dothraki, then returning to Meereen. She'll have to deal with all of the politics in Meereen before she can leave. She has to meet Tyrion, Victarion, Moqorro, and Marwyn. And after all of that, she'll finally sail to Westeros, which is gonna take a long time. I predict she'll get to Westeros at the end of the book. Now onto ADOS, she has to meet Euron who's in the South, Aegon who's in Kingslanding, and Jon who's in the North. Plus she has to fight the Others. How can she go all across Westeros in 1 book. 

My prediction is she reaches kingslanding, and has some sort of interaction with Aegon. Soon after she travels North to meet Jon and fight the Others, I believe there will be some sort of romance between the two, but how could he fit that in in time. After they defeat the others I think they'll travel south to Kingslanding, where Euron has killed Aegon and taken the throne for himself (a scouring of the shire, type of thing). 

GRRM has a big task here, and this is just for one character.

 

It can’t be done. 

Even with a time skip from Mereen to Westeros like the show does; there is just a staggering amount of material to cover. Especially if George’s wants a lengthy epilogue. Wheel of Time just ended the book and I can’t see him doing that.

Also the fight with the Others would be pretty underwhelming if it’s all wrapped in a few chapters and doesn’t get past Winterfell.

The series could easily go to ten books. I am not even convinced he’s introduced all the players yet and certainly not all the key relationships.

Edited by Tyrion1991

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39 minutes ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

My guess (we can't really know for sure) is that she does all her Mereen stuuf in the first half of TWOW, sack Volantis at around the 2/3 mark and finally arrive in Westeros at the end of TWOW, starting her conflict with FAegon. At the beginning of ADOS she defeats FAegon, and at the 1/3 mark she meets Jon and agrees to go fight for him, reaching the North at the 1/2 mark falling in love with him. Her ark end there at around the 3/4 mark of ADOS as she is killed by Jon.

 

Right before Jorah cuts Jon’s head off.

But Dany only has a few chapters per book. How could George fit all that in? Most of the POV won’t be with Dany. Especially a credible love story and downfall with Jon Snow. 

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George is going to have to compromise with Daenerys ark. Unless he wants to make us wait 20 years by adding another book to the series. 

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She is the lead character in this series.  A significant part of the two remaining books will be about her adventures. 

3 hours ago, King Adrian Storm said:

I don't see how George will fit Dany's storyline in TWOW and ADOS. 

TWOW will have Dany taking control of the Dothraki, then returning to Meereen. She'll have to deal with all of the politics in Meereen before she can leave. She has to meet Tyrion, Victarion, Moqorro, and Marwyn. And after all of that, she'll finally sail to Westeros, which is gonna take a long time. I predict she'll get to Westeros at the end of the book. Now onto ADOS, she has to meet Euron who's in the South, Aegon who's in Kingslanding, and Jon who's in the North. Plus she has to fight the Others. How can she go all across Westeros in 1 book. 

My prediction is she reaches kingslanding, and has some sort of interaction with Aegon. Soon after she travels North to meet Jon and fight the Others, I believe there will be some sort of romance between the two, but how could he fit that in in time. After they defeat the others I think they'll travel south to Kingslanding, where Euron has killed Aegon and taken the throne for himself (a scouring of the shire, type of thing). 

GRRM has a big task here, and this is just for one character.

Besides, there will be more room to devote to her story line because Jon Snow is dead.  We will not be getting any more POV chapters from Jon.  So that is one unineteresting (to me) story line that is out of the way.  This will open at least a half dozen chapters worth of pages for her.

What you believe needs to happen may not happen.  Aegon's plot line may be resolved by some other protagonists.  I love Daenerys but there are other protagonists in this series.  Somebody else, Asha Greyjoy and the Reader, might take out Euron even before Daenerys Targaryen sets her sails for Westeros.  The idea of the two queens, Daenerys and Cersei, fighting it out can be nothing more than show creation.  Cersei's plot arc will be resolved before Queen Dany maker her way to Westeros.

I see only a few conflicts for Dany to resolve.  Taking control of the Dothraki, getting rid of the slavers in Meereen, bringing Euron's Ironborn under control, deciphering the mystery of Quaithe, the long voyage to Westeros, and then a possible battle with the others.  The Starks will be direwolves by then.  Jon will be Ghost, if he gets a second life.

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2 hours ago, Anck Su Namun said:

She is the lead character in this series.  A significant part of the two remaining books will be about her adventures. 

One of the reasons why I began reading these novels, is because their was no lead character. Its a realistic story (or an attempt at it), all these characters are heroes of their own stories. Thats what makes asoiaf so beautiful. 

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The books will be large volumes. Many of the main characters will die and the number of point of views will decrease.  That should be enough to give Daenerys Targaryen more chapters.  Besides, not every conflict will get a resolution.  Our dragon-riding heroine may decide to stay in Essos to continue fighting the Ghiscari.  

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Posted (edited)

Relax. While I admit that it's not going to be easy...

...it's certainly doable. The books (particularly the last one) are going to have to be huge.

That's besides the point:

  • Jon had 9 chapters in Game, 13 chapters in Dance and 12 chapters in Storm
  • Arya had 10 chapters in Clash and 13 chapters in Storm
  • Tyrion had 9 chapters in Game, 12 chapters in Dance, 11 chapters in Storm and 15 chapters in Clash
  • Cersei had 10 chapters in Dance
  • Ned had 15 chapters in Game
  • Catelyn had 11 chapters in Game
  • Jaime had 9 chapters in Storm

All those characters had very rich arcs that spanned dozens and hundreds of miles without having to sacrifice the arcs of other characters and the main plot. Daenerys herself had quite the arc in A Game of Thrones -- she traveled further than everyone else -- and she had 10 chapters.

It can certainly be done. Especially in regards to Winds where Dany is sharing the Meereen plot with Barristan, Tyrion and Victarion. Dany's POV in Winds might not have anything to do with Meereenese politics; Tyrion can do all the heavy-lifting. Dany's story in The Winds of Winter is straightforward. Barring any surprises:

  • she goes to Vaes Dothrak and takes over the Dothraki
  • she returns to Meereen, meets everyone therein, learns of Aegon, Euron, Quentyn and maybe the Others, pacifies her dragons and makes preparations
  • she breaks the wheel of slavery in Essos, which means that she'll have to conquer and break almost the entire continent of Essos...Qarth and Volantis are likely to be destroyed
  • she sets aside time to visit Quaithe and figure out what the hell she is talking about
  • she finally returns to Pentos to confront Illyrio Mopatis

She doesn't need any more than 13 chapters for that. Doable.

Things do get complicated with Dany in A Dream of Spring but, I don't see how that's a problem. With people dying left and right at the hands of whatever unfortunate event, it should be easy for Dany to get 10+ chapters.

Edited by BlackLightning

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Perhaps she goes east from Vaes Dothrak and ends up in Asshai, meets Marwyn there,(or perhaps not at all)  and then crosses to Westeros to the East.   Do not pass Mereen, do not collect $200. 

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This “might” could be done if she got around 12 chapters like a few characters have had in past books, but we too many POV/plot-lines to cover. I honestly don’t see this series ending in an even semi-satisfying way in only two books.

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Posted (edited)
3 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

It can certainly be done. Especially in regards to Winds where Dany is sharing the Meereen plot with Barristan, Tyrion and Victarion. Dany's POV in Winds might not have anything to do with Meereenese politics; Tyrion can do all the heavy-lifting. Dany's story in The Winds of Winter is straightforward. Barring any surprises:

Agreed. Dany may even return to Meereen with everything resolved thanks to her good men and her two dragons.

I think we can all agree that the only plot that makes sense for Dany's endgame in TWOW is her finally sailing to Westeros.

In between TWOW will probably 10-12 Dany chapters: a chapter with the Dothraki, then reuniting in Meereen (with other shared POVs), establishing a republic in Meereen with elections, and she repeats it with other slave cities she sacks (much easier after learning from her mistakes, and much easier with her 3 almost fully grown dragons). She will have to confront Quaithe one more time, and Illyrio. Yeah ... 10-12 TWOW chapters sounds reasonable until her voyage to Westeros.

Edited by The Map Guy

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Posted (edited)

I think it's doable.

Dany finding out about the Others without a lot of time-wasting disbelief that we've seen with other characters is already built into the books and I expect her to arrive in Westeros already knowing.

A lot of the Hardhome freefolk were "rescued" by slavers and sold all over. Some were truly rescued in Braavos. They'll have stories to tell. Tyrion heard Jeor talk about woo-woo stuff, he had bad feelings at the Wall and then heard Alliser Thorne's warning. Jorah will be there to tell her that Jeor wouldn't make crap up. Gilly is a possibility too as she might be headed to Essos on the Cinnamon Wind. And the Others sounds a lot like the Dothraki ghost grass end of the world myth.

I think she and the Dothraki are going to be more involved in the CotF/Others fight than just feeding her dragons a bunch of burritos and letting them go and the Dothraki just being cannon fodder. They're not that big yet anyhow. I'm not so sure she's going to be that involved in politics as much as some assume. The conqueror not a ruler thing was pretty clear in her last ADWD chapters.

  • Bran saw Vaes Dothrak in his vision. Mother of the Mountains, Womb of the World sounds important to Bran's storyline.
  • Bran describes large bat skeletons which sound more like small dragon skeletons. Weirwoods sound like dragon trees. Bran's hanging with Bloodraven.
  • The two most magical characters are Dany and Bran.
  • Dany was in Qarth with the bizzarro weirwoods. It didn't get it's own pages in TWOIAF because it would have been too spoilery. Next time you read her HOTU time, it sounds a lot like literally being inside a tree. She's half Blackwood as is Bloodraven. Not a stretch at all...
  • Again, the Dothraki ghost grass sounds like Others. The grass outside of Asshai sounds Othery.
  • TWOIAF has big hints that the Dothraki know things about the CotF. Note they ran off the Ibbenese who cut down their forest and the Dothraki fear and/or revere the woods walkers. It is known is their version of you know nothing. Just like the wildlings know something, so do the Dothraki.

The World of Ice and Fire - Beyond the Free Cities: Ib

The God-Kings of Ib, before their fall, did succeed in conquering and colonizing a huge swathe of northern Essos immediately south of Ib itself, a densely wooded region that had formerly been the home of a small, shy forest folk. Some say that the Ibbenese extinguished this gentle race, whilst others believe they went into hiding in the deeper woods or fled to other lands. The Dothraki still call the great forest along the northern coast the Kingdom of the Ifequevron, the name by which they knew the vanished forest-dwellers.

The fabled Sea Snake, Corlys Velaryon, Lord of the Tides, was the first Westerosi to visit these woods. After his return from the Thousand Islands, he wrote of carved trees, haunted grottoes, and strange silences. A later traveler, the merchant-adventurer Bryan of Oldtown, captain of the cog Spearshaker, provided an account of his own journey across the Shivering Sea. He reported that the Dothraki name for the lost people meant "those who walk in the woods." None of the Ibbenese that Bryan of Oldtown met could say they had ever seen a woods walker, but claimed that the little people blessed a household that left offerings of leaf and stone and water overnight.

...

At its greatest extent, the Ibbenese foothold on Essos was as large as Ib itself and far richer. More and more of the hairy men crossed over from the islands to make their fortunes there, cutting down the trees to put the land under the plow, damming the rivers and streams, mining the hills. Ruling over these domains was Ibbish, a fishing village that swelled to become a thriving port and the second city of the Ibbenese, with a deep harbor and high white walls.

All that ended two hundred years ago with the coming of the Dothraki. The horselords had hitherto shunned the forests of the northern coasts; some say this was because of their reverence for the vanished wood walkers, others because they feared their powers. Whatever the truth, the Dothraki did not fear the men of Ib. Khal after khal began to make incursions into Ibbenese territories, overrunning the farms and fields and holdfasts of the hairy men with fire and steel, putting the males to the sword whilst carrying off their wives into slavery.

Edited by Lollygag

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Posted (edited)
12 hours ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

The books will be large volumes. Many of the main characters will die and the number of point of views will decrease.  That should be enough to give Daenerys Targaryen more chapters.  Besides, not every conflict will get a resolution.  Our dragon-riding heroine may decide to stay in Essos to continue fighting the Ghiscari.  

Our dragon riding heroine could decide to stay in Essos to continue her reforms.  This is true.  She can also fight the war on what could be called the Eastern Front.  The long night will happen in Essos too.  Blocking the Others from advancing in Westeros is not going to do any good if they are not also stopped in Essos.  Essos is actually more important to defend because it has a larger population.  The situation is even worse.  At least the wall in westeros is defended.  The 5-Forts are abandoned.  Somebody has to defend the eastern front because this war will have more than one area of conflict. 

 

Edited by Here's Looking At You, Kid

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To the OP-

Relax. R-E-L-A-X. (Channeling my inner Aaron Rodgers, here) Take a couple deep breaths and repeat this mantra seven times.

The Show is not The Books.

D&D made a major change to Dany's story line, similar to the one they made to Bran's. In the books, all the Stark kids are wargs or potential wargs (even Sansa). In the show, Bran was the only warg in the family. (D&D said they wanted to emphasize that Bran was special.) Likewise, in the show Dany was the only dragon rider for most of the run, and yet had at least some control (or maybe influence would be a better term) over Rhaegal and Viserion. In the books, a rider can only control one dragon, and we are 99.44% sure to see more dragon riders.

How does this effect the timeline? Simple - Dany will not return to Meereen. She will go to Vaes Dothrak, do what she needs to do, and head straight west for Pentos, picking up the khalasars on the way. The folks back at Meereen will sort the situation out themselves, with a distinct chance of a dragon being bound. They will then sail west for Pentos. This will all be made easier by the arrival of Marwyn, who will bring a glass candle with him. Quaithe has already been using a glass candle to visit Dany's dreams; now Dany and the Meereen crew will be able to coordinate their actions.

Dany should arrive at Dragonstone at the end of Winds.

Dream is going to be totally different from the show.

See? It's simple.

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16 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

I think we can all agree that the only plot that makes sense for Dany's endgame in TWOW is her finally sailing to Westeros.

Not necessarily.  She can have her own story in Essos.  The last book will be titled A Dream of Spring.  Dragons do not like cold weather.  She can wait out the winter in Essos and wait for the land to warm before making her way.  She has the most complete story out of all the characters.  The series can proceed very nicely even if she stayed in Slaver's Bay.  There is enough issues there for one person to deal with.  Westeros may be coming to her.  Barristan, Tyrion, Marwyn, Jorah, Vic, Greyworm, Skahaz.  The cast in Slaver's Bay is large enough to deserve their own story.  I enjoy Dany's and Barristan's chapters more than I do any of the people in Westeros. 

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9 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Our dragon riding heroine could decide to stay in Essos to continue her reforms.  This is true.  She can also fight the war on what could be called the Eastern Front.  The long night will happen in Essos too.  Blocking the Others from advancing in Westeros is not going to do any good if they are not also stopped in Essos.  Essos is actually more important to defend because it has a larger population.  The situation is even worse.  At least the wall in westeros is defended.  The 5-Forts are abandoned.  Somebody has to defend the eastern front because this war will have more than one area of conflict. 

 

:agree:

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12 hours ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

She can also fight the war on what could be called the Eastern Front.  The long night will happen in Essos too.  Blocking the Others from advancing in Westeros is not going to do any good if they are not also stopped in Essos.  Essos is actually more important to defend because it has a larger population.  The situation is even worse.  At least the wall in westeros is defended.  The 5-Forts are abandoned.  Somebody has to defend the eastern front because this war will have more than one area of conflict. 

 

I like that idea, which sounds like something Sean Collins has written about, but unfortunately I don't think we're going to get it. GRRM has said the characters will be coming together rather than spreading apart, and that he had to nix plans for Dany to go further east to Asshai.

3 hours ago, The Lord of the Crossing said:

Not necessarily.  She can have her own story in Essos.  The last book will be titled A Dream of Spring.  Dragons do not like cold weather.  She can wait out the winter in Essos and wait for the land to warm before making her way.

It's titled a "Dream" of Spring, not "The Flowers of Spring". It's hope for a better future, rather than the future itself. Winter lasts for years in this world, no matter how little sense that makes, and GRRM has already abandoned a five-year gap between novels, with time moving more slowly than he expected. If Daenerys waits out the winter in Essos, what would the Westerosi need her for in the spring?

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You could just ask whether any other story should be able to fit into two books.

No, it is not going to work. If it were doable TWoW would have been long been finished.

At best one can expect Dany's story in TWoW reach a point where she decides to go to Westeros now. But she won't start the journey yet.

TWoW will be a chapter including all the POVs again, making it another ASoS with much more POV characters - that in and of itself means the book will have less chapters than AFfC and ADwD even for the 'main characters'. Dany can perhaps have 5-7 chapters, not more. And that's not enough to deal with the Dothraki and have her go to Westeros, especially since, at this point, she has no intention to go to Westeros soon.

The Dothraki story alone is not going to be resolved in 1-2 chapters. That would be hilarious and childish. She is going to face some challenges there, will have to come up with a plan what to do, will have to go through some trials, will have to make sacrifices and get through some struggles. This is not going to be easy.

The story will decide how many chapters are necessary, not the number of books.

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Posted (edited)

It is quite doable, as long as GRRM comes to his senses and cuts the filler.

Spoiler

 

Arianne I: On the way to fAegon.

Arianne II: Still on the way to fAegon.

Barristan I: Barristan makes his battle plans. The chapter ends with the sounding of the attack.

Victarion I: Victarion speaks with the three oarsmen who will blow the dragonhorn. He then proceeds to do weird shit with the dragonhorn. He gives his final commands before the Iron Fleet joins the battle.

Tyrion I: Tyrion and BBP play cyvasse. They talk. Jorah says that ironborn ships flying dragon banners joined the fray.

Barristan II: Barristan’s army of weirdos do well in the attack. Everything goes according to the plans. Barristan sees that ironborn ships flying dragon banners joined the fray.

Tyrion II: The Second Sons turn their cloaks once again.

There is no way TWoW will work with that much bloating. Two Arianne chapters can easily be merged into one. Tyrion I and Barristan II can be dropped easily. 

 

 

Edited by Mithras

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