Jump to content

How is Dany's storyline going to fit into 2 books?


King Adrian Storm

Recommended Posts

On 4/9/2020 at 1:14 PM, King Adrian Storm said:

I don't see how George will fit Dany's storyline in TWOW and ADOS. 

TWOW will have Dany taking control of the Dothraki, then returning to Meereen. She'll have to deal with all of the politics in Meereen before she can leave. She has to meet Tyrion, Victarion, Moqorro, and Marwyn. And after all of that, she'll finally sail to Westeros, which is gonna take a long time. I predict she'll get to Westeros at the end of the book. Now onto ADOS, she has to meet Euron who's in the South, Aegon who's in Kingslanding, and Jon who's in the North. Plus she has to fight the Others. How can she go all across Westeros in 1 book. 

My prediction is she reaches kingslanding, and has some sort of interaction with Aegon. Soon after she travels North to meet Jon and fight the Others, I believe there will be some sort of romance between the two, but how could he fit that in in time. After they defeat the others I think they'll travel south to Kingslanding, where Euron has killed Aegon and taken the throne for himself (a scouring of the shire, type of thing). 

GRRM has a big task here, and this is just for one character.

Her story and her timeline can be completely different.  She could choose to go to Westeros and settle matters there before returning to Meereen to help the slaves.  There are other ways to find ships.  She can go directly to Volantis from Vaes Dothrak, take their ships, and so on.  The trip back to Meereen may be the last chapter we get in Dream.  We may never learn the fate of the slaves.  It may be one of the important issues left hanging. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 minutes ago, Travis said:

Not all Dany pages will come from her POV. I imagine she will be heavily featured in Tyrion's chapters and maybe some other POVs. That will help.

That doesn't seem to be happening since George has said that Dany and Tyrion will only eventually hook up in the next book.

That could mean they will meet in the last or the second to last chapter of either of those characters.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

31 minutes ago, Lord Varys said:

That doesn't seem to be happening since George has said that Dany and Tyrion will only eventually hook up in the next book.

That could mean they will meet in the last or the second to last chapter of either of those characters.

That very well may be true. But even if they only meet up in the last quarter of TWOW, we must keep in mind that a lot of POV characters are probably going to die in this book (how many, we obviously don't know) and the remaining story lines will begin converging. Just like in the first 2 books we will see certain characters in several POVs.

I think it will be difficult, but doable. I believe GRRM has TWOW mostly done, but he is editing and making sure that as he does this, he doesn't write himself into a corner and make a disaster of the end like the show did.

Is he having a difficult time? I'm sure he is. But I think he is competent enough to pull it off.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 minutes ago, Travis said:

That very well may be true. But even if they only meet up in the last quarter of TWOW, we must keep in mind that a lot of POV characters are probably going to die in this book (how many, we obviously don't know) and the remaining story lines will begin converging. Just like in the first 2 books we will see certain characters in several POVs.

Oh, that was the pipe dream of many readers before ADwD came out. That many POVs would die and this would then help to simplify the story. It is not very likely that an author who still broadened the narrative in ADwD would suddenly decide to cut everything down to, what, the limited story ASoIaF was back in AGoT? That is not going to happen.

Characters certainly will die but I would not hold my breath that many POVs died. Especially not crucial POVs who routinely have many chapters per book. It won't matter if Victarion or Areo Hotah or Aeron were to die - they never had that many chapters. But chances that Tyrion, Dany, Jon, the Stark children, Jaime, Cersei, etc. will die too soon.

Even Theon is not likely to die in Stannis' camp since George long after ADwD that he had been just working on another Theon chapter.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Lord Varys,

I see what you're saying. And I agree. GRRM did himself a massive disservice by being a "gardener". But I have a feeling he understands that he can no longer do that, that he must plan out the rest of his story meticulously. And that is what he is now struggling with. But I think he will figure it out. And if he doesn't, I think he may reach a point where he just says, "Screw it!" and publishes what he has. "What are they going to do, kill me? I'm on death's door anyway."

Edit to add: I posted this 3-4 times and it never showed up, so I apologize if there are several of the same response.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Travis said:

@Lord Varys,

I see what you're saying. And I agree. GRRM did himself a massive disservice by being a "gardener". But I have a feeling he understands that he can no longer do that, that he must plan out the rest of his story meticulously. And that is what he is now struggling with. But I think he will figure it out. And if he doesn't, I think he may reach a point where he just says, "Screw it!" and publishes what he has. "What are they going to do, kill me? I'm on death's door anyway."

Edit to add: I posted this 3-4 times and it never showed up, so I apologize if there are several of the same response.

I don't think that's a particular disservice. I find the story of the scope of AGoT pretty simple and boring, truth be told. If ever got back to that level of simplicity I might not even bother finishing it.

And George never was a fast writer. Sure, this story is pretty huge. But he did that deliberately and he continued to do it during the writing process of both AFfC and ADwD. This is how this is supposed to be. And it will continue to be this way.

TWoW will be somewhat faster and more simpler because, while POVs are at the same place (Jon/Mel, Theon/Asha, Barristan/Tyrion/Vic, Jaime/Brienne, Arianne/Jon) the plot can go faster simply by switching between POVs like George used to do in AGoT with the story at Winterfell or later in KL from AGoT to ASoS, but that's still not going to allow him to rush things.

And George will never 'plot the story meticulously'. He writes by trial and error. One draft of a chapter and then another and another - and then compare that with the other drafts and whether the way stories intersect works best or whether it would be better rewrite them, etc.

I'm not sure what you know about the writing process, but there were multiple versions of the AFfC Prologue from different (!) POVs, among them Rosey's and Mollander's. There were two other versions of the meeting between Dany and Quentyn - one long before her wedding to Hizdahr and one long thereafter (in the latter of which Marwyn had already arrived in Meereen).

This is the way ASoIaF is written. And it will be written in this fashion or not at all.

And the handling of events in TWoW is obviously going to be much more difficult than any Meereenese Knots. Now he has to keep the various balls of the plots in the North, in the Riverlands, Vale, KL, Stormlands, Dorne and in Essos in the air to find the right way to have them slowly intersect in a way that allows him to tell the story he wants to tell. That's going to be very difficult. If he were to rush one sub-plot ahead too quickly, then a couple of characters might have nothing to do for weeks or months while things have to unfold elsewhere.

A lot of stuff has to happen in the North before the Wall can fall since if it were to fall too early the whole Dany-Aegon conflict simply cannot happen because she isn't even there yet. And so on. Writing this thing must be a huge pain in the ass. It is a great story, but no writer could write that kind of thing very quickly.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Lord Varys said:

I don't think that's a particular disservice. I find the story of the scope of AGoT pretty simple and boring, truth be told. If ever got back to that level of simplicity I might not even bother finishing it.

And George never was a fast writer. Sure, this story is pretty huge. But he did that deliberately and he continued to do it during the writing process of both AFfC and ADwD. This is how this is supposed to be. And it will continue to be this way.

TWoW will be somewhat faster and more simpler because, while POVs are at the same place (Jon/Mel, Theon/Asha, Barristan/Tyrion/Vic, Jaime/Brienne, Arianne/Jon) the plot can go faster simply by switching between POVs like George used to do in AGoT with the story at Winterfell or later in KL from AGoT to ASoS, but that's still not going to allow him to rush things.

And George will never 'plot the story meticulously'. He writes by trial and error. One draft of a chapter and then another and another - and then compare that with the other drafts and whether the way stories intersect works best or whether it would be better rewrite them, etc.

I'm not sure what you know about the writing process, but there were multiple versions of the AFfC Prologue from different (!) POVs, among them Rosey's and Mollander's. There were two other versions of the meeting between Dany and Quentyn - one long before her wedding to Hizdahr and one long thereafter (in the latter of which Marwyn had already arrived in Meereen).

This is the way ASoIaF is written. And it will be written in this fashion or not at all.

And the handling of events in TWoW is obviously going to be much more difficult than any Meereenese Knots. Now he has to keep the various balls of the plots in the North, in the Riverlands, Vale, KL, Stormlands, Dorne and in Essos in the air to find the right way to have them slowly intersect in a way that allows him to tell the story he wants to tell. That's going to be very difficult. If he were to rush one sub-plot ahead too quickly, then a couple of characters might have nothing to do for weeks or months while things have to unfold elsewhere.

A lot of stuff has to happen in the North before the Wall can fall since if it were to fall too early the whole Dany-Aegon conflict simply cannot happen because she isn't even there yet. And so on. Writing this thing must be a huge pain in the ass. It is a great story, but no writer could write that kind of thing very quickly.

I completely agree. But, then again, he is the author, and only he knows the story he wishes to tell. I know we all have our theories, some based on the text and some not so much, but in the end it is his story.

As much as I enjoyed the TV show (really, I did - that's how I was introduced to the books [which are FAR better]), we have what we have in the books and we honestly have no clue what he plans with the rest of the story. I have my own expectations, but I have never been dissappointed when his story goes in a complete different direction.

Possibly, all of the time he spent interacting with fans on forums in the past has confused him, and made him question what he intended. Who knows?

All I know is that I will be ecstatic when TWOW comes out, even if I am ultimately dissappointed with it when I am finished. But to be honest, I have not been "dissappointed" with any of the ASOIAF books after reading them. This is his story, and I am glad to read it.

[Just so everyone knows, I binge-watched Season 1 of the show (while they were promoting Season 2). It was completely by accident. Although I loved Lord of the Rings, I have never been a reader (or watcher) of fantasy. Then (because I am a "reader") I realized the show was based on a set of books. I devoured them in the 2 weeks when I discovered Season 1 and before Season 2 came out. So from Seaon 2 onwards, I knew what was going on ahead of time.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/10/2020 at 2:58 AM, Lollygag said:

I think it's doable.

Dany finding out about the Others without a lot of time-wasting disbelief that we've seen with other characters is already built into the books and I expect her to arrive in Westeros already knowing.

A lot of the Hardhome freefolk were "rescued" by slavers and sold all over. Some were truly rescued in Braavos. They'll have stories to tell. Tyrion heard Jeor talk about woo-woo stuff, he had bad feelings at the Wall and then heard Alliser Thorne's warning. Jorah will be there to tell her that Jeor wouldn't make crap up. Gilly is a possibility too as she might be headed to Essos on the Cinnamon Wind. And the Others sounds a lot like the Dothraki ghost grass end of the world myth.

I think she and the Dothraki are going to be more involved in the CotF/Others fight than just feeding her dragons a bunch of burritos and letting them go and the Dothraki just being cannon fodder. They're not that big yet anyhow. I'm not so sure she's going to be that involved in politics as much as some assume. The conqueror not a ruler thing was pretty clear in her last ADWD chapters.

  • Bran saw Vaes Dothrak in his vision. Mother of the Mountains, Womb of the World sounds important to Bran's storyline.
  • Bran describes large bat skeletons which sound more like small dragon skeletons. Weirwoods sound like dragon trees. Bran's hanging with Bloodraven.
  • The two most magical characters are Dany and Bran.
  • Dany was in Qarth with the bizzarro weirwoods. It didn't get it's own pages in TWOIAF because it would have been too spoilery. Next time you read her HOTU time, it sounds a lot like literally being inside a tree. She's half Blackwood as is Bloodraven. Not a stretch at all...
  • Again, the Dothraki ghost grass sounds like Others. The grass outside of Asshai sounds Othery.
  • TWOIAF has big hints that the Dothraki know things about the CotF. Note they ran off the Ibbenese who cut down their forest and the Dothraki fear and/or revere the woods walkers. It is known is their version of you know nothing. Just like the wildlings know something, so do the Dothraki.

The World of Ice and Fire - Beyond the Free Cities: Ib

The God-Kings of Ib, before their fall, did succeed in conquering and colonizing a huge swathe of northern Essos immediately south of Ib itself, a densely wooded region that had formerly been the home of a small, shy forest folk. Some say that the Ibbenese extinguished this gentle race, whilst others believe they went into hiding in the deeper woods or fled to other lands. The Dothraki still call the great forest along the northern coast the Kingdom of the Ifequevron, the name by which they knew the vanished forest-dwellers.

The fabled Sea Snake, Corlys Velaryon, Lord of the Tides, was the first Westerosi to visit these woods. After his return from the Thousand Islands, he wrote of carved trees, haunted grottoes, and strange silences. A later traveler, the merchant-adventurer Bryan of Oldtown, captain of the cog Spearshaker, provided an account of his own journey across the Shivering Sea. He reported that the Dothraki name for the lost people meant "those who walk in the woods." None of the Ibbenese that Bryan of Oldtown met could say they had ever seen a woods walker, but claimed that the little people blessed a household that left offerings of leaf and stone and water overnight.

...

At its greatest extent, the Ibbenese foothold on Essos was as large as Ib itself and far richer. More and more of the hairy men crossed over from the islands to make their fortunes there, cutting down the trees to put the land under the plow, damming the rivers and streams, mining the hills. Ruling over these domains was Ibbish, a fishing village that swelled to become a thriving port and the second city of the Ibbenese, with a deep harbor and high white walls.

All that ended two hundred years ago with the coming of the Dothraki. The horselords had hitherto shunned the forests of the northern coasts; some say this was because of their reverence for the vanished wood walkers, others because they feared their powers. Whatever the truth, the Dothraki did not fear the men of Ib. Khal after khal began to make incursions into Ibbenese territories, overrunning the farms and fields and holdfasts of the hairy men with fire and steel, putting the males to the sword whilst carrying off their wives into slavery.

Good points. Especially about the connection between Bran and Dany. The Kingdom of the Ifequevron sound like the Essosi version of the Children of the Forest.

I too think that Dany will find out about the Others before she arrives in Westeros. Not only have the Free Folk been taken to Westeros, but Archmaester Marwyn is looking to connect with her. And Tyrion seems to have gotten a little more superstitious in his time away from King's Landing (i.e. the Shrouded Lord of the Rhoyne = the ghost of his father).

On 4/10/2020 at 9:07 AM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Our dragon riding heroine could decide to stay in Essos to continue her reforms.  This is true.  She can also fight the war on what could be called the Eastern Front.  The long night will happen in Essos too.  Blocking the Others from advancing in Westeros is not going to do any good if they are not also stopped in Essos.  Essos is actually more important to defend because it has a larger population.  The situation is even worse.  At least the wall in westeros is defended.  The 5-Forts are abandoned.  Somebody has to defend the eastern front because this war will have more than one area of conflict. 

 

Well, some would say that the Others need to be fought and stopped in Westeros so as to protect Essos. Essos is separated from the Lands of Always Winter by way of the Shivering Sea. Unless the Others have some other way of getting around. Then again...Asshai is an enigma.

On 4/10/2020 at 1:46 AM, The Map Guy said:

Agreed. Dany may even return to Meereen with everything resolved thanks to her good men and her two dragons.

I think we can all agree that the only plot that makes sense for Dany's endgame in TWOW is her finally sailing to Westeros.

In between TWOW will probably 10-12 Dany chapters: a chapter with the Dothraki, then reuniting in Meereen (with other shared POVs), establishing a republic in Meereen with elections, and she repeats it with other slave cities she sacks (much easier after learning from her mistakes, and much easier with her 3 almost fully grown dragons). She will have to confront Quaithe one more time, and Illyrio. Yeah ... 10-12 TWOW chapters sounds reasonable until her voyage to Westeros.

A chapter with the Dothraki? No, she's going to need at least 5 chapters to unite all the different Dothraki khalasars into one super-khalasar with her at the head as their Stallion.

On 4/10/2020 at 2:11 PM, Ibbison from Ibben said:

To the OP-

Relax. R-E-L-A-X. (Channeling my inner Aaron Rodgers, here) Take a couple deep breaths and repeat this mantra seven times.

The Show is not The Books.

D&D made a major change to Dany's story line, similar to the one they made to Bran's. In the books, all the Stark kids are wargs or potential wargs (even Sansa). In the show, Bran was the only warg in the family. (D&D said they wanted to emphasize that Bran was special.) Likewise, in the show Dany was the only dragon rider for most of the run, and yet had at least some control (or maybe influence would be a better term) over Rhaegal and Viserion. In the books, a rider can only control one dragon, and we are 99.44% sure to see more dragon riders.

How does this effect the timeline? Simple - Dany will not return to Meereen. She will go to Vaes Dothrak, do what she needs to do, and head straight west for Pentos, picking up the khalasars on the way. The folks back at Meereen will sort the situation out themselves, with a distinct chance of a dragon being bound. They will then sail west for Pentos. This will all be made easier by the arrival of Marwyn, who will bring a glass candle with him. Quaithe has already been using a glass candle to visit Dany's dreams; now Dany and the Meereen crew will be able to coordinate their actions.

Dany should arrive at Dragonstone at the end of Winds.

Dream is going to be totally different from the show.

See? It's simple.

I don't understand people's obsession with Dany rushing her way through Westeros. Why would Dany abandon Meereen? Why would she abandon her other dragons? Why would she ignore the fact that the Qartheen stabbed her in the back for the -- what -- third time?

Daenerys can literally show up at Dragonstone in her very first chapter in A Dream of Spring and nothing will change. The pace is fine. In fact, it's a much, much better idea for her to make Dragonstone her home in her opening POV chapter of Dream. It fits the theme of the book better.

14 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

You could just ask whether any other story should be able to fit into two books.

No, it is not going to work. If it were doable TWoW would have been long been finished.

At best one can expect Dany's story in TWoW reach a point where she decides to go to Westeros now. But she won't start the journey yet.

TWoW will be a chapter including all the POVs again, making it another ASoS with much more POV characters - that in and of itself means the book will have less chapters than AFfC and ADwD even for the 'main characters'. Dany can perhaps have 5-7 chapters, not more. And that's not enough to deal with the Dothraki and have her go to Westeros, especially since, at this point, she has no intention to go to Westeros soon.

The Dothraki story alone is not going to be resolved in 1-2 chapters. That would be hilarious and childish. She is going to face some challenges there, will have to come up with a plan what to do, will have to go through some trials, will have to make sacrifices and get through some struggles. This is not going to be easy.

The story will decide how many chapters are necessary, not the number of books.

Meh, for all we know, the Essos plot could already be finished. The harder, more complicated work is in Westeros anyway.

A Storm of Swords had 82 chapters (83 if you count the appendix) and it covered a lot of ground. What's wrong with Winds having the same amount of chapters if not a little more. Some POV characters won't have any more than 5 chapters while others like Dany, Arya, Tyrion and maybe Sansa will get 10 easy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

36 minutes ago, BlackLightning said:

Meh, for all we know, the Essos plot could already be finished. The harder, more complicated work is in Westeros anyway.

A Storm of Swords had 82 chapters (83 if you count the appendix) and it covered a lot of ground. What's wrong with Winds having the same amount of chapters if not a little more. Some POV characters won't have any more than 5 chapters while others like Dany, Arya, Tyrion and maybe Sansa will get 10 easy.

Just do the math. There are many more POVs than in ASoS and the story is less complex. 10 chapters would be a lot for any POV, especially if the Starks are finally going to get more chapters in the book. We want/hope that Sansa and Arya get something more to do, right?

It makes no sense for a book with a proper plot to have a POV with a story of his/her own just to have 2-3 chapters. And then there are arcs to consider. Depending how long the Dothraki story is going to go it might be a nice climax for her arc there to end her plot when she takes them over. If that took, say, five chapters then this could be enough Dany for the book already. If he wanted to continue thereafter it could go until she reaches the conclusion she would go to Westeros or perhaps see her destroy Qarth or wherever she goes after she has taken over the Dothraki. I think she will have to go there next to meet Quaithe again and to deal with the betrayal of Xaro Xhoan Daxos and ensure the Qartheen do not reintroduce slavery after she is gone.

One expects the book to have the size of ADwD and ASoS. But not more since they go with about 1,500 manuscript pages per book, whicih equals about 1,000 book pages.

You also have to keep in mind that there is a strange imbalance that has to be rectified - we didn't see Sam and Sansa since AFfC meaning they should get some more material here - and a similar thing is true for Bran and Davos who we left early in ADwD (and also Jaime).

Then there are the two battles which are going to be covered in great detail stretching far into the book, covering perhaps the first 200-300 pages (especially if there were different chapters interspersed between the POVs in the North and at Meereen which is to be expected), along with the situation in KL and in the Stormlands which is also going to take up steam.

Just resolving all that will take hundreds of pages ... and that is essentially just wrapping up ADwD and not entering into TWoW territory.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Daenerys can gather up the Dothraki in 3-4 chapters.  Meanwhile, Tyrion can sort out Meereen.  After she gets the Dothraki on her side, she can return to Meereen, find out about Westeros, possibly from Marwyn, pick up her dragons, and make the decision to take her place as the rightful ruler of Westeros.

Maybe 2 chapters to get to the Free Cities via the Dothraki Sea and meet up with Tyrion who I expect would go by sea.  She could finish the book by arriving on Dragonstone.  Eight chapters, which is doable.

The main problem with TWOW is that there are too many ongoing stories, especially ones introduced in Feast and Dance.  Ironborn, Dorne, Aegon, Faceless Men, Lady Stoneheart, Boltons, etc.  Something has got to give.

No way is anyone getting 10+ chapters.  I think 8 is the maximum.  And that is with POVs wrapping up, consolidating, or dying.  Six to eight for the big six, 1-5 for everyone else.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

TWoW MUST return to the fast pacing right from the beginning. We don’t have the luxury for even a slow start. As I mentioned before, Barristan II and Tyrion I should get the axe. Assuming GRRM does all this, here is a fast paced scenario that can leave Essos behind (good riddance!) and bring Dany to Westeros for the Dance.

 

Barristan I

Barristan makes his battle plans. He sounds the attack at dawn. His army is deployed. The enemy misses the chance for a counterattack. Barristan sees that the Windblown kept their part of the bargain and turned their cloaks.

 

Victarion I

Victarion convinces the red shirts to blow the horn. Then he smears his blood over the horn. The Iron Fleet joins the battle. Kraken and dragon banners fly. Victarion spots Rhaegal circling above.

 

Tyrion I

They get dire news such as the Windblown treachery, Barristan’s devastating charge and the ironmen attacking the slavers with dragon banners. The Second Sons turn their cloaks again. Tyrion hears a creepy horn blowing thrice.

 

Victarion II

Rhaegal lands. They feed pigs to the dragon. Victarion approaches Rhaegal and gets on its back. Rhaegal tries to shake him off but Victarion holds tight. After a brief flight with Victarion at its back, Rhaegal lands again to eat more. The Battle of Fire is won.

 

Dany I

The dusk sets in and Drogon flies off. Dany is bound and taken captive. She is taken to dosh khaleen for trial.

 

Barristan II

Barristan meets Tyrion, BBP and Jorah on the battlefield. Barristan is not willing to forgive the Second Sons, at least until Dany does. They go to meet the new comers. Victarion demands to take charge of everything. He does not hide his intention to kill Hizdahr so that he can marry Dany. Barristan won’t allow all that to happen. They cannot reconcile despite the Volantene Fleet is coming to kill them all. Shavepate does not open the gates to Barristan until they settle the issue of ruling in Dany’s absence.

 

Tyrion II

Tyrion reunites with Moqorro in Victarion’s camp. He convinces Victarion to challenge all who oppose his rule in trial by combat. Messengers are sent to all the relevant parties. Next day, a large council is assembled. Victarion officially makes his challenge. Barristan accepts. Many other contenders rise. After the challengers are agreed upon, the Great Pit of Daznak is prepared for the contest. Tyrion starts nursing the wounded and sick Viserion back to health.

 

Dany II

Dany is brought before the dosh khaleen. Drogon returns. Dany jumps on him and kills some khals. Drogon is the Stallion That Mounts the World.

 

Dany III

Dany gathers a large khalassar but there are still many khals who do not want to join her. Dany makes inter-Dothraki wars to crush the rebellious khals. After a bloody process, Dany manages to unite the whole Dothraki under her banner and gets on the way to Meereen.

 

Victarion III

On the sands where every man is for himself in a single fight. No one can stand before Victarion’s axe for long. He overpowers Barristan and kills him. After slaying Jorah as the last man standing, Victarion collapses due to his wounds. Moqorro and Tyrion rush to him.

 

Tyrion III

While Moqorro is healing Victarion’s wounds, Tyrion and Shavepate restore some order to Meereen. Tyrion keeps feeding sheep to Viserion personally. After a while, Viserion starts getting used to his presence. Tyrion designs saddles for Rhaegal and Viserion.

 

Victarion IV

Moqorro tells Victarion the timing of the Volantene Fleet passing the Yaros Straits. Victarion makes his plans for the ambush. Before he leaves, he executes Hizdahr. The Volantene Fleet enters the straits just like Moqorro promised. Rhaegal rains fire on slavers. The slave soldiers revolt against their masters. A sweet victory where Victarion captures lots of ships.

 

Tyrion IV

The Sons of the Harpy start the killings again after the execution of Hizdahr. Tyrion and Shavepate violently quell the insurgency. Blood runs in the gutters of the city. Green Grace and all the other Harpy leaders are caught and executed. Tyrion puts a saddle on Viserion and mounts him. Viserion is bonded to Tyrion after a brief flight.

 

Dany IV

Dany’s huge khalassar comes close to Meereen. Dany flies with Drogon to the city and meets Tyrion. They exchange stories. Victarion flies in to give the news of the victory against the Volantene Fleet. Dany is impressed by the accomplishments of her dragonriders. Victarion proposes to Dany but she does not agree until she takes Westeros. Dany, Tyrion and Victarion decide to sack the slaver cities for declaring war on them. They need lots of gold and provisions to supply their long journey to Westeros. Dany flies off with Drogon to sack Mantarys with her khalassar.

 

Tyrion V

Yunkai, Astapor and New Ghis are sacked. Council at Meereen. Dany leaves Shavepate behind as her viceroy. Both from the land and the sea, Dany starts moving west. Tyrion is now fully in love with Dany and can’t stand Victarion’s rivalry. Tyrion learns that Victarion is periodically bleeding himself and smearing his blood on the horn to keep riding Rhaegal. Tyrion plots with Moqorro to steal the horn to get rid of Victarion.

 

Victarion V

They plan their attack to Volantis. Dany’s khalassar will ride to Selhorys and feign an attack. The Volantene will send their soldiers to defend the town. The Dothraki will avoid engaging with them and ride hard for Volantis. Victarion is supposed to bring the fleet to the harbor and attack Volantis when the riders reach the city walls. While waiting for the sign to attack, Victarion wants to do another blood smearing but the horn is missing. The sign comes and Victarion gives the order to sail. When he tries to mount Rhaegal, the dragon senses his fear. The second “Oh.”

 

Dany V

Both from the land and the sea, Volantis is attacked while dragons circle over the city. Red priests incite a rebellion and the slaves revolt. Volantis falls, which sends shockwaves across the world. Dany learns Victarion’s fate. The horn is nowhere to be found. Benerro’s preaching starts getting into Dany. Marwyn joins Team Dany at Volantis. Weeks pass while they plan their next moves. Aurane Waters comes to Volantis with his fleet and bends the knee to Dany. She is immediately attracted to him.

 

Tyrion VI

The Triarchy is reformed against Dany’s anti-slavery campaign. They are preparing a massive armada to defeat Dany once and for all. Aurane Waters and Tyrion prepare Dany’s fleet. Meanwhile, Dany’s khalassar is closing in on Pentos through the land. Aurane leads the fleet to Stepstones where they expect the battle. They can’t overwhelm the massive armada of the Triarchy. They win a pyrrhic victory. They take Dragonstone with their depleted fleet. Driftmark follows.

 

Dany VI

Dany flies to Pentos where her khalassar finally arrived. Drogon rains fire and the city defenses are breached. Pentos is sacked. Tattered Prince gets his reward. They learn that Illyrio had fled long ago. They learn more about the shady origins of Illyrio. They need help to ferry their troops to Westeros.

 

Tyrion VII

Tyrion goes to Braavos to broker a deal. But the Iron Bank already has a deal with Stannis. The Vale is the next target. Tyrion goes to the Vale as an envoy to win the Vale Lords. He sees that Davos is also there in the name of Stannis. Vale Lords play coy and remain indecisive. Tyrion understands that only the victor will get the Vale.

 

Davos IV

The Battle for the Vale. Stannis leads his fleet to the Bay of Crabs. Dany’s fleet goes to face them. Davos fires an extremely lucky shot that slays Viserion with an iron bolt. Viserion falls on a ship along with Tyrion. The death of Viserion wakes the dragon. Drogon owns the day and Stannis is defeated. Stannis leaves his remaining ships at Saltpans and runs back to north.

 

Dany VII

Dany claims the ships Stannis left behind. She flies Drogon to White Harbor and burns several parts of the city as punishment for the loss of Viserion. Then she flies to the Vale where she gets the allegiance of the Vale Lords. She escorts Tyrion to Pentos to oversee the transport of her armies. Finally, she returns to Dragonstone and sends ravens to every castle in Westeros, demanding their fealty and claiming that Aegon is an impostor.

 

The End

It took 6 volumes and 1/3rd of TWoW but Dany is finally in Westeros, where the actual fucking story takes place. Thank you for your time. Fuck you Essos. You won't be missed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

6 hours ago, Nevets said:

Daenerys can gather up the Dothraki in 3-4 chapters.  Meanwhile, Tyrion can sort out Meereen.  After she gets the Dothraki on her side, she can return to Meereen, find out about Westeros, possibly from Marwyn, pick up her dragons, and make the decision to take her place as the rightful ruler of Westeros.

That is far too quick a pace. Just look how many chapters the prelude to the first Meereen battle is going to take. There will be the battle itself, the Dragonbinder plot, the aftermath, the situation in Meereen around Hizdahr and then the arrival of the Volantenes and the aftermath of that - which should include carrying the war to Yunkai itself and the Yunkish Allies in/near Slaver's Bay who should pay for attacking Meereen, especially New Ghis. You could fill half of TWoW with that alone.

Keep in mind how many crucial characters there are in this plot aside from the three POVs - Skahaz, Hizdahr, Reznak, the Green Grace, the Tattered Prince, Quentyn's guys, Jorah, Brown Ben, Daario, etc. This is not going to be quickly resolved.

And Dany is not just going to go back to Meereen when she has the Dothraki. They will want something in return from her in exchange for allowing her to rule them. They won't just be a stupid plot device. They will want that she makes gives them all of Essos from the Bones to the Narrow Sea, and from the Shivering Sea to the Summer Sea. She will have to deliver on that front, and that's going to take time, too.

They might eventually decide to also help her with her plans for Westeros but that's not going to be a top priority for her immediately after she became the god-empress of the Dothraki.

6 hours ago, Nevets said:

Maybe 2 chapters to get to the Free Cities via the Dothraki Sea and meet up with Tyrion who I expect would go by sea.  She could finish the book by arriving on Dragonstone.  Eight chapters, which is doable.

That kind of thing reads like an outline how to get a character from point A to point B as quickly as possible, but that's not how those books are written. If that were the case George would have found a way to put the Red Wedding into AGoT not postpone it until ASoS ;-).

And of course they will have to conquer all of the Free Cities but Braavos before they could even consider going to Westeros. Especially Volantis and the Three Daughters have to be broken to ensure slavery is not going to come back. The former might have its own slave revolution but chances are we are going to get chapters where Dany and her people visit the place (this is not going to covered by them just reading it in the news...) but the Three Daughters do not have slave armies, they have their own military and they employ sellswords and sellsails. They could crush any slave revolts that might be attempted and they are likely going to become Dany's main opponents on her way west.

And bury the idea that Dany would hang out on Dragonstone. What would be the point of that? That is a small island in the middle of nowhere which could not possibly hope to feed or house her armada. She might fly there on dragonback to take possession of it or pay a visit to the crypts where the ashes of her parents and her ancestors are, but she is not going to sit there

6 hours ago, Nevets said:

The main problem with TWOW is that there are too many ongoing stories, especially ones introduced in Feast and Dance.  Ironborn, Dorne, Aegon, Faceless Men, Lady Stoneheart, Boltons, etc.  Something has got to give.

Those stories are very complex, but they are not problems. They are actually needed to pass the time in Westeros because the Dothraki are not just going to march to the coastlines of Essos in the blink of an eye, nor are there going to be ships enough to carry them all to Westeros once they are there.

Things have to happen in the meantime and they are likely going to fill an entire book. If Dany were on the move too early most of those stories couldn't even play out because then the Daenerys problem would start to affect and overshadow everything else - which isn't likely to happen either. There will come a time when events overtake planning but that's not yet happening.

6 hours ago, Nevets said:

No way is anyone getting 10+ chapters.  I think 8 is the maximum.  And that is with POVs wrapping up, consolidating, or dying.  Six to eight for the big six, 1-5 for everyone else.

I don't think anyone is going to get just 1-2 chapters. That way you cannot tell a story. This is not going to be as imbalanced a book as AFfC/ADwD - once the battle plots from ADwD are resolved everybody's story will be continued. This means we should expect for every character to have at least 3-5 chapters, which is doable and could advance the story considerable if the POVs who are together already do not separate quickly (which I think is the case for Vic/Tyrion/Barristan, Arianne/Jon once they meet, Theon/Asha, Jon/Mel, and possibly even Brienne/Jaime - although in the latter case they might separate pretty quickly again).

And I'd not hold my breath that many POVs are dying, either. That didn't happen in ADwD and it is not likely to happen in TWoW either. I could see 1-2 POVs dying, but not more. And it seems very likely that both Areo Hotah and Theon are not going to be among the POVs who die soon, if at all. People have fantasizing about Areo being slain by Darkstar in his first chapter ... but that isn't happening.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

14 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

I don't understand people's obsession with Dany rushing her way through Westeros. Why would Dany abandon Meereen? Why would she abandon her other dragons? Why would she ignore the fact that the Qartheen stabbed her in the back for the -- what -- third time? 

 

Dany's whole fate is connected with Wersteros. Her dalliance in Meereen is Ghafla, the gadfly distraction. Why would Dany care about Meereen? They claim to be her "children", but they thrust themselves on her. It's time for her so-called children to grow up and fend for themselves, The Qartheen are ancient long-forgotten dust, who do not even understand the usage of the letter U. The only significant Qartheen in the story is Pyat Pree, who is a hostage of Euron Greyjoy.

Dany has very little control of Rhaegal and Viserion. They are free to be claimed. Anyone with a significant amount of Targ blood could bind them. (Note - that does not include Victarion "Dumb as a Stump" Greyjoy.)

There are two characters on the Meereen battlefield who may be able to claim a dragon - Brown Ben (there are old sellswords, and bold sellswords, but no old, bold sellswords ) Plumm, and Tyrion Lannister/Hill/Hillfyre.

Guess who rides a dragon.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't think Dany's fate is necessarily connected with Westeros.  She chooses her own path more than any other character.  I can't picture Dany abandoning Essos to the darkness.  This event, the long night, is a global disaster.  Westeros may be coming to her.  The lead characters are already on their way to Slaver's Bay.  Daenerys and Tyrion are there.  That is 2/3 of the trinity.  The story is more interesting if the west comes to the east. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

22 hours ago, BlackLightning said:

Well, some would say that the Others need to be fought and stopped in Westeros so as to protect Essos. Essos is separated from the Lands of Always Winter by way of the Shivering Sea. Unless the Others have some other way of getting around. Then again...Asshai is an enigma.

Those forts were built for something.  There is a threat coming from the north of Essos.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/12/2020 at 5:20 PM, Putin said:

Dany will not fight the others like in show , in books  that role is for Stannis and nights watch.

That will be tough without any dragons. The NW is quite depleted.

Quote

I don't understand people's obsession with Dany rushing her way through Westeros. Why would Dany abandon Meereen?

Because dragons plant no trees.

On 4/13/2020 at 3:56 PM, Jeeves said:

I can't picture Dany abandoning Essos to the darkness.  This event, the long night, is a global disaster.  Westeros may be coming to her.

That sounds like what happens in Bryan Caplan's preferred version of the endgame.

On 4/13/2020 at 8:19 PM, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Those forts were built for something.  There is a threat coming from the north of Essos.

I thought they were guarding against something to the east.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/9/2020 at 5:06 PM, Anck Su Namun said:

She is the lead character in this series.  A significant part of the two remaining books will be about her adventures. 

Besides, there will be more room to devote to her story line because Jon Snow is dead.  We will not be getting any more POV chapters from Jon.  So that is one unineteresting (to me) story line that is out of the way.  This will open at least a half dozen chapters worth of pages for her.

What you believe needs to happen may not happen.  Aegon's plot line may be resolved by some other protagonists.  I love Daenerys but there are other protagonists in this series.  Somebody else, Asha Greyjoy and the Reader, might take out Euron even before Daenerys Targaryen sets her sails for Westeros.  The idea of the two queens, Daenerys and Cersei, fighting it out can be nothing more than show creation.  Cersei's plot arc will be resolved before Queen Dany maker her way to Westeros.

I see only a few conflicts for Dany to resolve.  Taking control of the Dothraki, getting rid of the slavers in Meereen, bringing Euron's Ironborn under control, deciphering the mystery of Quaithe, the long voyage to Westeros, and then a possible battle with the others.  The Starks will be direwolves by then.  Jon will be Ghost, if he gets a second life.

Getting rid of Jon's point of view will leave more of the book open for her chapters.  George has said this winter will kill many characters.  I would like for Jon, Cersei, Jamie, and Sansa to meet their ends in TWOW.  The space they would normally take can go to Barristan, Victarion, Arriane, and Samwell. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 4/12/2020 at 10:41 PM, BlackLightning said:

Good points. Especially about the connection between Bran and Dany. The Kingdom of the Ifequevron sound like the Essosi version of the Children of the Forest.

I too think that Dany will find out about the Others before she arrives in Westeros. Not only have the Free Folk been taken to Westeros, but Archmaester Marwyn is looking to connect with her. And Tyrion seems to have gotten a little more superstitious in his time away from King's Landing (i.e. the Shrouded Lord of the Rhoyne = the ghost of his father).

Totally forgot about Marwyn!! How could I do that? Wonder if Dany and Jorah will remember that MMR trained under Marwyn in Asshai?

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...