UK Politics: What about a Masquerade?

[Pebble thats Stubby]

I'm one of those people he's telling to go back to work.

 

Although my job is fairly well isolated as I'll mostly be in the office.  I do have to go out on the line and all over the factory to help people and fix things.  I'll be touching other peoples keyboards and mice.  and asking them to show me what is wrong while being 2 meters away is going to be hard.

 

but most people on the shop floor are less than a meter away from each other, some have to physically interact.  A lot have to come into work via public transport.  this is so much not a good idea.

 

Also how can you say "go to work tomorrow" and "I'll give more details later"   If it applies tomorrow we need to know before tomorrow what the exact details are.  our employers also need time to contact us all individually.

 

I won't be at work tomorrow.  I think its unlikely I'll be at work the following week, although people in our company are trying to work out how to safely bring us in and have not been waiting for the government to not provide details of how.  Its likely I'll be asked to come in the week after though.  unless things change and there is a big push back from this nationwide.

 

Personally this feels like Boris saying, its all costing too much,  we have some space in hospitals now so lets do that herd immunity thing again.  Oh and I've already had it, so I should be immune.   Fuck you, a lot of you will die, but you're expendable plebs.

[williamjm]

2 hours ago, mormont said:

It's still pretty reckless... if you don't have a nice comfy middle class job.

From some of the newspaper headlines last week you'd almost have expected that Boris was about to declare 'mission accomplished' and say we could go back to normal. It wasn't that but instead we got this weird mix where most of the message was spent acknowledging the continuing dangers and a comparatively small but crucial bit encouraging people to do something that would increase those risks.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

Fuck you, a lot of you will die, but your expendable plebs.

History of the world, I'm afraid. 

[Werthead]

I think there was some political shuffling behind the scenes, as related by Buzzfeed (who seem to have had some good inside scoops recently). Sunak, Raab and Gove are in the big business-driven camp that wants the economy to reopen (spearheaded by Murdoch) and whilst Boris was out of action they were keen to start moving down that road, but realised they couldn't really sell that whilst Boris was in hospital. When Boris came back, he was obviously not as keen on the idea and Cummings and Hancock, who'd both also fought off the virus (albeit a milder form), were firmly of the view that opening too early would be foolish.

Cummings seems to have spent his convalescence reading books on the 1918 pandemic and his realisation that the second wave was far more damaging - in terms of lives lost and the economy, resulting from multiple lockdowns - seems to have been key here. With Boris, Cummings and Hancock back at the reins, the pro-easing camp seem to have been shut down, but Boris wanted to provide an optimistic, upbeat plan and also throw them a bone, hence the speech today, which really boiled down "nothing has changed but we think some things might change in a few weeks but only if we see some good signs, but otherwise it's business as usual."

Of course, he couldn't even communicate that effectively. Changing that slogan seems to be really stupid. Given that ~10% of people seemed to be ignoring the lockdown even with the very clear advice we had, I suspect we'll see more ignoring of the rules in the coming weeks and a further spike in cases.

Using almost the exactly same colour code for the Covid Alert system as that used for Nandos spices was a nice touch to appeal to the average Briton, though. That was surprisingly clever.

[ants]

7 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

12 hours? The government suggested going back to work in 12 hours? WT flying F?

In Victoria Australia the government just gave 37 hours notice for the change that you could have 5 people visit your home and you could do some sports now.  12 hours for most back to work is crazy! 

[Denvek]

7 hours ago, Werthead said:

Using almost the exactly same colour code for the Covid Alert system as that used for Nandos spices was a nice touch to appeal to the average Briton, though. That was surprisingly clever.

But putting together an easy to understand 5 level system to understand what the threat level was and then saying we're currently at 3.5 was less clever.

[mormont]

We haven't even got into the advice about how you can go jogging with your aunt but not your uncle.

[DaveSumm]

59 minutes ago, Denvek said:

But putting together an easy to understand 5 level system to understand what the threat level was and then saying we're currently at 3.5 was less clever.

Yea, I was nearly onboard at that point thinking that an alert system made sense, and then the graphic did that weird “dip from 4.5 and hover weirdly around 4.2.” I honestly don’t know what they were trying to convey there. 

[DaveSumm]

So we can meet up with anyone now, if it’s outside and 2m apart? But that’s not in the speech, that’s just if you happened to tune in to the news and see Raab telling you. Jesus they fumbled this one pretty hard didn’t they.

[Heartofice]

I don’t get why they do a speech on Sunday and then set out a massive document the next day.  Just do the speech and release the details at the same time. If your speech is vague and created more questions then answers then don’t do it!
 

The speech has caused chaos, even if much of it seemed straight forward and little has changed right now. I don’t know what happened but I’m guessing there must have been some back and forth with ministers behind the scenes because there was a serious lack of clarity and even now you are getting one person saying one thing and someone else giving a different answer.

 

[Derfel Cadarn]

15 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

I don’t get why they do a speech on Sunday and then set out a massive document the next day.  Just do the speech and release the details at the same time. If your speech is vague and created more questions then answers then don’t do it!
 

The speech has caused chaos, even if much of it seemed straight forward and little has changed right now. I don’t know what happened but I’m guessing there must have been some back and forth with ministers behind the scenes because there was a serious lack of clarity and even now you are getting one person saying one thing and someone else giving a different answer.

 

Yes, absolute chaos. Confusing instructions when there should be simple clarity. 

Will furloughing continue for companies that stay shut because they’re unable to provide a safe environment, or is the government now washing their hands of it, saying they’ve told people to return to work?

Schools and nurseries should re-open at the same time as businesses, otherwise its forcing people out of work.

[mormont]

So according to Raab, when the PM said go back to work he didn't mean immediately, he meant on Wednesday (still not enough time to do a risk assessment): when he said you could meet one person from outside your household provided social distancing was observed, he meant you could meet two: but of course when doing so you should use your - the dreaded words - 'common sense'.

Seriously. Government guidance is that you should use your common sense.

I literally explain to every member of my staff at induction that the reason I'm explaining the health and safety rules to them is that everyone thinks they have common sense, but experience shows us that many of them are simply wrong. There is no more dangerous instruction, to me, than 'use your common sense'. It's basically saying 'do what you feel like'.

There is no way that a lay person can have 'common sense' about a subject like viral spread and no way they will consistently exercise it even if they did. Any psychologist will tell you that. 'Common sense' is a dangerous delusion. Whole books have been written about it. But apparently now it's our first line of defence against coronavirus. Because government ministers, despite saying they will follow the science, don't seem to understand that behavioural science is as important as epidemiology.

[Heartofice]

I think one of the problems we are seeing is that people are already using their ‘common sense’. 
 

New guidance is that people can go in sit in parks.. but that was already happening. Everyone realised it doesn’t make a lot of sense to restrict sitting in a park on your own so they did it.

But even worse, I know people who are visiting friends because they have all isolated for a couple of weeks so surely it’s all fine.

Unless you are going to crack down Chinese style on everyone then there is always going to be those who make their own decisions 

[BigFatCoward]

I'm supposed to be enforcing business closures today, and it's going to be fucking chaos after that debacle 'but boris mumbled something about stuff and I thought it was ok'. 

[Spockydog]

3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I don’t get why they do a speech on Sunday and then set out a massive document the next day.  Just do the speech and release the details at the same time. If your speech is vague and created more questions then answers then don’t do it!
 

The speech has caused chaos, even if much of it seemed straight forward and little has changed right now. I don’t know what happened but I’m guessing there must have been some back and forth with ministers behind the scenes because there was a serious lack of clarity and even now you are getting one person saying one thing and someone else giving a different answer.

 

Because this is what strong and stable government looks like.

[Maltaran]

Apparently Raab has been doing the rounds on the TV this morning and whenever he goes on to a different channel he contradicts what he said on the previous one.

News from my office is that the absolute earliest we might go back is June 15.

[Spockydog]

Ooof! Can't normally stand the man, but Morgan nails this guy to the wall over the government's failings.

 

 

[Spockydog]

Public advised to wear face masks under lockdown easing plan

Quote

 

People should “wear a face covering in enclosed spaces where social distancing is not always possible and they come into contact with others that they do not normally meet, for example on public transport or in some shops”, the government document says.

This is aimed at preventing people who have the virus but are not experiencing symptoms from passing it on to others.

The chief medical officer for England, Prof Chris Whitty, stressed that face coverings were “not a substitute” for physical distancing and urged the public not to buy surgical or medical masks, needed for frontline carers, but to rely on scarves or DIY-type masks instead.

 

So the advice to the general public is to wear masks, but not actual masks. Righto.

[Heartofice]

52 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Public advised to wear face masks under lockdown easing plan

So the advice to the general public is to wear masks, but not actual masks. Righto.

Think advice is pretty clear 

[Pebble thats Stubby]

43 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Think advice is pretty clear 

on this I actually agree with you.   Its wear a cloth face covering such as a  scarf.  Medial masks and N95 should be left for the front line workers who actually need them.   Your face covering is not to protect you.  but to protect others from you.  we have enough difficulties getting enough PPE to our Health workers and carers, and is the main reason this message has been so late in coming.