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Tywin Manderly

UK Politics: What about a Masquerade?

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7 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

Your face covering is not to protect you.

My sealed ffp3 face mask begs to differ. 

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21 minutes ago, Pebble thats Stubby said:

on this I actually agree with you.   Its wear a cloth face covering such as a  scarf.  Medial masks and N95 should be left for the front line workers who actually need them.   Your face covering is not to protect you.  but to protect others from you.  we have enough difficulties getting enough PPE to our Health workers and carers, and is the main reason this message has been so late in coming.

Exactly and people should be attempting to keep social distancing where they can.

This has been pretty clear I think. It’s also why I think a lot of the ‘common sense’ advice has been working. People are social distancing and understand the need for it. Getting obsessed over if you can meet a family member in your garden or in the park and how close you can get is unnecessary.

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23 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

My sealed ffp3 face mask begs to differ. 

Its really not that hard to get.

the fact that you have decided to use a proper face mask is well up to you. (I'm not judging, you have your reasons) the point is they don't want everyone to use high grade face masks as there is not enough for every normal person to suddenly go out and buy some and all the medical and care workers as we have enough difficulties getting enough of these for them.  Most masks can't be re-used (or not used many times) so Hospitals have to keep getting more of them.

 

a scarf mask is good enough for most people if everyone wears them and maintains social distancing.  because You are protected by everyone else wearing a mask.   You are not protected by people wearing masks with vents in as this allows them to breath out the virus.  If you have chosen a higher rated mask that has vents, please consider adding an additional cloth covering to protect others from you.

A scarf can be washed as soon as you get home, if you go out again you can wear a different one.  demanding that we all wear a home made mask or scarf does not add to the PPE issues we are facing.

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Posted (edited)

Are you seriously claiming that a scarf or a home made cloth mask offers more protection, for both yourself and others, than a sealed FFP3 mask? 

And thanks for 'not judging me' for taking it upon myself to ignore the government's increasingly bogus advice on how best to protect myself and my family. 

 

Edited by Spockydog

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30 minutes ago, Spockydog said:

Are you seriously claiming that a scarf or a home made cloth mask offers more protection, for both yourself and others, than a sealed FFP3 mask? 

 

Nope, she didn't. I don't know how you can read that into her post. A so called social mask, (cloth, make home, scarf, or whatever are sufficient for your average joe. They are not there to protect the wearer, but others from the wearer. COVID is a droplet infection, and covering your face stops you spewing your germs all around (while speaking for isntane). Every single moron did just that, it would be totally sufficient to keep the numbers downish.

Average joe should stay away form the the good gear (likesay FFP3), so he doesn't take it away from frontline NHS workers, who really need that stuff.

You mentioned in an older thread, that you have underlying medical conditions, and thus decided you wanted to go down the road with the FFP3 mask. Which is fair enough.

 

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1 hour ago, Spockydog said:

Are you seriously claiming that a scarf or a home made cloth mask offers more protection, for both yourself and others, than a sealed FFP3 mask? 

And thanks for 'not judging me' for taking it upon myself to ignore the government's increasingly bogus advice on how best to protect myself and my family. 

 

No I am not.  and that is not the point of the instructions.  I'm not judging you because I don't know your exact reasons,  I assume you have underlining health conditions or are protecting those that do.  You already have your mask and what you need.  You continuing to wear your mask is not taking away stuff that can be used for the NHS who I'm sure you would agree also really need it.

 

I'm saying that for everyone who hasn't got a reason to wear these types of masks, (these are the people you've see around not wearing ANY face covering.  if they all suddenly go out an buy FFP3 masks we will have big problems.  A scarf is sufficient for these people.

 

I do hope you can understand I'm not talking about YOU when I'm talking about people who don't already have masks and don't already wear them. 

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10 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I don’t get why they do a speech on Sunday and then set out a massive document the next day.  Just do the speech and release the details at the same time. If your speech is vague and created more questions then answers then don’t do it!

It does seem baffling that they didn't do that. It looks like there's still a wait for the guidelines for safe workplaces and for public transport when surely those could have been announced in advance of Boris' speech to allow companies and workers time to act on them.

7 hours ago, Maltaran said:

News from my office is that the absolute earliest we might go back is June 15.

The company I work had a worldwide policy that they would start considering opening the offices up a minimum of three weeks after the local government allowed (presumably after the 'work from advice' is lifted for the UK). They didn't specify but I'm assuming the three week minimum is to give time to see whether the local government has made a big mistake. They then gradually allow more people in the office over a three month period.

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Boris’ performance today was worse than yesterday. Dunno if he hasn’t recovered yet but he was talking utter gibberish and didn’t seem to answer any questions.

Either way there are still major questions that need to be answered. How can people be expected to go back to work if schools are closed? What if they have to get public transport? If employees refuse to go back to work are their jobs safe?

I understand the need to get the economy going again, that is vital, and I also understand the need to let businesses decide what they want to do, but this has been really very poor and confused.

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Shamelessly stolen from elsewhere:

I think I’ve worked it out...

* 4 year olds can go to school but university students who have paid for their tuition and the accommodation that they aren’t living in, can’t go back to university.

* I can go to school with many 4 year olds that I’m not related to but can’t see one 4 year old that I am related to.

* I can sit in a park, but not tomorrow or Tuesday but by Wednesday that’ll be fine.

* I can meet one person from another household for a chat or to sunbathe but not two people so if I know two people from another household I have to pick my favourite. Hopefully, I’m also their favourite person from my household or this could be awkward. But possibly I’m not. In fact, thinking about it, I definitely wouldn’t be. But as I can’t go closer than 2m to the one I choose anyway so you wouldn’t think having the other one sat next to them would matter - unless two people would restrict my eyeline too much and prevent me from being alert.

* I can work all day with my colleagues but I can’t sit in their garden for a chat after work.

* I can now do unlimited exercise when quite frankly just doing an hour a day felt like I was some kind of fitness guru. I can think of lots of things that I would like to be unlimited but exercise definitely isn’t one of them.

* I can drive to other destinations although which destinations is unclear. I was supposed to be in Brighton this weekend. Can I drive there? It’s hundreds of miles away but no one has said that’s wrong.

* The buses are still running past my house but I shouldn’t get on one. We should just let empty buses drive around so bus drivers aren’t doing nothing.

* It will soon be time to quarantine people coming into the country by air... but not yet. It’s too soon. And not ever if you’re coming from France because... well, I don’t do know why, actually. Because the French version of coronavirus wouldn’t come to the UK maybe.

* Our youngest children go back to school first because... they are notoriously good at not touching things they shouldn’t, maintain personal space at all times and never randomly lick you.

* We are somewhere in between 3.5 and 4.5 on a five point scale where 5 is all of the virus and 1 is none of the virus but 2,3 and 4 can be anything you’d like it to be really. Some of the virus? A bit of the virus? Just enough virus to see off those over 70s who were told to self isolate but now we’ve realised that they’ve done that a bit too well despite us offloading coronavirus patients into care homes and now we are claiming that was never said in the first place, even though it’s in writing in the stay at home guidance.

* The slogan isn’t stay at home any more.So we don’t have to say at home. Except we do. Unless we can’t. In which case we should go out. But there will be fines if we break the rules. So don’t do that.

Don’t forget...

Stay alert... which Robert Jenrick has explained actually means Stay home as much as possible. Obviously.

Control the virus. Well, I can’t even control my dogs and I can actually see them. Plus I know a bit about dogs and very little about controlling viruses.

Save lives. Always preferable to not saving lives, I’d say, so I’ll try my best with that one, although hopefully I don’t need telling to do that. I know I’m bragging now but not NOT saving lives is something I do every day.

So there you are. If you’re the weirdo wanting unlimited exercise then enjoy. But not until Wednesday. Obviously

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1 hour ago, Heartofice said:

Dunno if he hasn’t recovered yet but he was talking utter gibberish and didn’t seem to answer any questions.

As this has been Johnson's MO during his entire political career, I think he's fully recovered.

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12 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

* Our youngest children go back to school first because... they are notoriously good at not touching things they shouldn’t, maintain personal space at all times and never randomly lick you.

Or each other, or their shared school toys/play equipment, or random stones off the ground, or strangers' bicycles...

My girls' nursery is planning to reopen on 1st June. This strikes me as far too early.

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12 hours ago, mormont said:

As this has been Johnson's MO during his entire political career, I think he's fully recovered.

I'll have to say, as an outsider who doesn't follow British politics closely day-by-day, that my impression of him is just this. 

Why that is, I'm not going to speculate about, but that he generally prefers ... what shall we call it ... lofty and airy embellishment to concrete and detailed answers is my impression.

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16 minutes ago, Rorshach said:

I'll have to say, as an outsider who doesn't follow British politics closely day-by-day, that my impression of him is just this. 

Why that is, I'm not going to speculate about, but that he generally prefers ... what shall we call it ... lofty and airy embellishment to concrete and detailed answers is my impression.

He could never be described as a detail guy.

But I don’t see that as a problem usually because very few people at the top are, most of my bosses have been big thinkers and strategisers and know where their skills lay. The point is to hire the right people to give you the right advice and you shape the big picture.

Thats why Boris is usually flanked by someone who actually knows what they are talking about. Which is why he is totally screwed when grilled on things. He was awful in the debates and barely answered a question. It’s what he does.

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Somehow I can't see Johnson as a big thinker, or a strategist. He is essentially a charismatic front man.

Now that can work well, but there are two requirements; he has to know his limitations, and he has to choose the right person to delegate the actual decision making to. Personally I am not sure that either condition holds, though at least Cummings is no fool.

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It’s a bit Orwellian. They open their mouths and words spill out entirely devoid of meaning like empty quacking.

Here in Luxembourg the lockdown measures have mirrored Britain almost exactly (albeit slightly less strict here) and now the government is relaxing the rules in more or less the same way. The difference is that in Britain you seem to have to deduce how to behave based on extremely general guidelines. Whereas in Luxembourg, the new advice comes in a list of bullet point directions introduced in national media and mailed in the form of a leaflet to every citizen (along with a supply of masks).

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25 minutes ago, john said:

It’s a bit Orwellian. They open their mouths and words spill out entirely devoid of meaning like empty quacking.

Here in Luxembourg the lockdown measures have mirrored Britain almost exactly (albeit slightly less strict here) and now the government is relaxing the rules in more or less the same way. The difference is that in Britain you seem to have to deduce how to behave based on extremely general guidelines. Whereas in Luxembourg, the new advice comes in a list of bullet point directions introduced in national media and mailed in the form of a leaflet to every citizen (along with a supply of masks).

This is the whole problem. Ank any 10 brits the rules and you would get 10 slightly different answers. Some of this is down to wilful ignorance, but a lot is down to the frankly alarming vagueness of the instructions. Even if it was hard and fast rules, Boris is not the man to deliver that sort of message. 

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80% furlough extended for 4 months. You can wonder at the motivation or where the money has come from. But at least they arent totally fucking useless. 

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29 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

This is the whole problem. Ank any 10 brits the rules and you would get 10 slightly different answers. Some of this is down to wilful ignorance, but a lot is down to the frankly alarming vagueness of the instructions. Even if it was hard and fast rules, Boris is not the man to deliver that sort of message. 

Do you not think most people have reasonable idea of what is expected, as in they socially distance, stick to people in their household, don’t get on public transport too often etc.

Even if everyone is fluffy on some of the details from what I’m seeing most people are pretty aware of the general rule, which is maybe enough.

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39 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

80% furlough extended for 4 months. You can wonder at the motivation or where the money has come from. But at least they arent totally fucking useless. 

Depends how many people they allow to remain on the furlough scheme. 

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