Unconventional opinions dumpsterfire of a thread

[Alyn Oakenfist]

So what are some of your opinions that don't really match with the rest of the fandom? For example mine would be the fact that I really don't like Catelyn, and find her really annoying and distant to everybody else. She tries to play the mother on everybody, and I mean everybody, be it Robb, Renly, Stannis or Edmure, and seem to have a very ,,fuck you, got mine" attitude to people outside her family. Also her constantly thinking how much she loves Ned, while deflecting all her hatred towards him towards Jon Snow really gets under my skin. So how about you? What unconventional opinions do you have?

Edit: Changed the title to better reflect the multiple shitstorms that have at one point or another taken over this thread.

[kissdbyfire]

- The trees/Old Gods AREN'T EVUL INCARNATE. And anyone who believes so don’t understand the author and is in for a big surprise.

- Tyrion is not a nice guy.

- Jon isn’t dead.

- Ramsay wrote the PL. 

There are many more, but I’ll leave it at that. For now anyway.

 

[Universal Sword Donor]

Tormund's member is exactly as big as he says it is

[Peach King]

-I don't really get why people romanticize Melisandre and Stannis. She says herself that he would never love her, only make use of her, he threatens her with death several times, and is mostly only with her because she's feeding his ego by telling him he's Azor Ahai. Much romance, such feminism, wow. 

-Rhaenyra was not that bad a person. She only executed traitors who committed treason as far as I know, and she never harmed Alicent and Halaena when they were fully in her power (I'm disregarding the rumours about what she had done to them since Fire and Blood says they were far-fetched), and she only ordered Addam and Nettles killed when she was deeply paranoid and had lost almost everyone close to her. 

-The Faith of the Seven should be represented better. And I don't just mean that the religion should be more developed. Since Westeros is an absolute monarchy, the only voice the smallfolk have is really exercised through the orders of the Faith and the High Septon. So to see all the High Septons either being "lickspittles", fat, corrupt men (and seriously why is fat almost synonymous with greedy and corrupt in ASOIAF?) or fanatics is uh....not great. The only Faith of the Seven practitioners who stand in opposition to the nobles are characterized as delusional fanatics or in a negative light (The Sword and Stars, Septon Moon, Septon Mattheus, The Sheperd, the High Sparrow). Theres a line in Fire and Blood about how the Poor Fellows protected the smallfolk from vagabonds, but is immediately undercut by the next line being "when they weren't stealing from them themselves". So yeah, I think all this could be represented better.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

Bran chapters are miserable. They are the equivalent of page after page of "are we there yet?" With a few dashes of something interesting to come eventually. I really think most of the trek North could have been cut from the book. 

Dany isn't bad. Not yet anyway. Maybe she will be, but as of yet I think most of her decisions have been pretty sound. I know I'm not alone thinking this but it does seem to be a matter of disagreement on the forum. 

Stan the Man wrote the PL. 

Jon is a pretty great guy - again not alone, I know but a matter of intense disagreement. 

 

[The Map Guy]

3 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

The trees/Old Gods AREN'T EVUL INCARNATE. And anyone who believes so don’t understand the author and is in for a big surprise.

Tree son = Treason!

1 hour ago, Universal Sword Donor said:

Tormund's member is exactly as big as he says it is

But its been bit in half like he said.

"What could you do if you did find her?" Jon asked, smiling. "You said she bit your member off."
"Only half. And half me member is twice as long as any other man's." Tormund snorted. "Now as to you . . . is it true they cut your members off when they take you for the Wall?"

{Jon II ASOS}

 

Mines:

• I really don't like the concept of Rhaegar and Lyanna being Romeo and Juliet. Everyone speaks highly of the them, and most theorists assumed they did it for love or prophecy ... as if this was a "get out of jail free card." They did it because they were horny and selfish ... abandoning their families and promises. They ignited all the deaths caused by Robert's Rebellion ... and trust me, their decisions will cause more death in TWOW and ADOS.
• Jon has a twin sister, and no one wants to talk about it for who knows why. You guys would be surprised how much more you can get out of the current 5 ASOIAF books if you add this core-character in your re-reads. If you guys don't want to discuss this core-character publicly, I'm willing to discuss this privately. I'm waiting for the mods to unlock my requests for this private session ... but no one is responding!!
  Spoiler

  Where have all the good men gone? And where are all the mods?
  Where is the admin-Hercules, to unlock threads and do their jobs?
  Isn't there a white knight upon mouse & board-of-keys?
  Late at night, I toss and I turn and dream of what I need!
  I need a hero, I'm holding out for a hero to unseal new discussion delights.
  He's gotta be strong, he's gotta be fast, and he's gotta be fresh for the hype.
  I need a hero, I'm holding out for a hero with a warm heart that invites.
  He's gotta be sure, he's gotta be soon, and he's gotta do what is right
  ... the Mod of Might.

   

• The Pink Letter was written at Castle Black ... thanks to the Paper Curl Theory and the two lines immediately before & after the reading of the Pink Letter (the best place to hide clues).

• I genuinely believe HBO GoT Season 1 - 4, especially episodes that GRRM wrote himself, has a lot of Easter Eggs clues for TWOW and ADOS. I know we are not allowed to discuss it here, and that is too bad. Big changes like Waymar's FIGHT with the Others wasn't in the TV show. The theme of their fight was swapped with someone else's fight on TV. And there are small dialogue changes that you guys might miss within blink of an eye ... like TV Sam and TV Gilly talking about the difference between winking and blinking.

[The Grey Wolf]

Aegon II's claim was better.

[The Map Guy]

14 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Bran chapters are miserable. They are the equivalent of page after page of "are we there yet?" With a few dashes of something interesting to come eventually. I really think most of the trek North could have been cut from the book.

There is a reason for that journey. GRRM intentionally showed it was long and hard. It makes Bran and the gang less likely to voluntarily escape Bloodraven's cave knowing the road back the Wall is very very far and cold and hungry. But in reality, the distance back to the Wall is shorter than the journey they took, Coldhands deliberately took the long way to the cave. Don't believe me? Bust out the canon TLOIAF and check out the Bran's Journey map.

[King17]

Dany chapters are terrible get to the 7 kingdoms already.

[The Mountain that Cries]

1. Roose Bolton is ether The Night's Kings or The Great Other or Many-Faced God or some sort of skin stealing shadow demon.

2. The Mountain is wearing Neds Head.

3. Daario Naharis is a Faceless Man

4. Sothroyos is the most Awesome place a story is never told about. I think this place is way Scarier than Asshai or Stygia or Carcossa. Fear the Unknown and Forgotten it will save your life.

[aromaticanalysis]

Dany will bring the grey plague to Westeros. 

Edit: Accidentally, I should add. 

[Yaya]

my thing is that R+L=J is totally FALSE

i CAN NOT buy into that ... it's so lame

 

 

 

[Big P]

4 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

So what are some of your opinions that don't really match with the rest of the fandom? For example mine would be the fact that I really don't like Catelyn, and find her really annoying and distant to everybody else. She tries to play the mother on everybody, and I mean everybody, be it Robb, Renly, Stannis or Edmure, and seem to have a very ,,fuck you, got mine" attitude to people outside her family. Also her constantly thinking how much she loves Ned, while deflecting all her hatred towards him towards Jon Snow really gets under my skin. So how about you? What unconventional opinions do you have?

The fandom is not of the same opinion on most anything.  So you can't really find an opinion that is shared by the rest of the fandom.  Let me just make you a list of controversial opinions instead:

1. Janos Slynt didn't get any justice from his crazy lord commander.
2. Daenerys will have to execute Tyrion for treason.
3. Drogon means little Drogo, the child of Daenerys and Drogo. 
4. Daenerys will unite the Dothraki and use them to protect the 5 Forts.
5. Jon Snow is finished as a human. He will continue on as a wolf.

[Nagini's Neville]

5 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

I really don't like Catelyn

That's an unconventional opinion? I feel like Cat has always been one of the most hated/disliked characters in the fandom. And that she only in recent years has gotten more support, a lot of it as a response of the intense hate she received for years.

1. I like her of course.   I love, that she has those realistic flaws, that a high-born Lady mother would have in the Middle Ages. And how many fantasy authors would give a character like her a voice and tell a very important story line from her pov? Normally mother figures in fantasy can be very stereotypical- it's either the evil (step)mother type, or the self-sacrificing, pure, personified goodness and mercy Type, who has nothing more to her character, than being the perfect mother (usually she has already died, when the story starts) That's one of the things, that make asoiaf unique IMO. Normally we would get the hero's (Robb) pov and not the hero's mother's pov. But mothers are also people in society and not unimportant ones IMO. So I love that we have her pov instead of Robb's. 

2.Tyrion has been abused by his father, but also through that abuse has been taught to be an abuser himself. He hurts most women he wants to sleep with sooner or later and he kinda sees them as objects, who are first and for most there to give something to him, to heal something within him, without considering that they are also people, who have needs and wishes and dreams, who were hurt in the past just like him and can be hurt by him as well. He thinks he is the only one in the world, who is truly suffering. He is a rapist, a child molester and a murderer of an innocent person, he is entitled and selfish, looks down on the smallfolk and is a major hypocrite, when it comes to his "cripples bastards and broken things" mantra. Despite all of this I still kinda like him though. And he is a really intriguing character to me. But it amazes me how most of the fandom just gives him a pass on all of his evil deeds and hypocrisy. Why be upset, that he killed a person, who didn't owe him anything, just because he could, if she was unsympathetic anyway? Why care, that he stepped on a musician's hands (which he needs for his work) just for mocking him, when this guy turns out to be a rapist anyway?... IMO Tyrion will become even darker, more corrupt and more and more like Tywin. He will never find romantic love, never will become a truly moral person, but will have an important role in the government and will be ultimately a successful politician.

3. I love Sam and don't think his chapters are boring at all. IMO Sam is one of the only "true knights" of the story. He risks his life and his role as a brother to help "the weak", even though he is afraid, even though he thinks he is unequipped to do so, he does it all, because he has a really good heart. This is the epitome of bravery. I don't mind at all, that he is so self-deprecating. GRRM has said Sam is the most like himself. So I trust, that this is an authentic portrayal of someone like Sam in those situations. I love, that he is such a good person and so moral. Despite of all the abuse he has suffered, he isn't bitter and thinks someone has to pay for all of his difficulties in life. But it's kinda unrealistic, that he stays fat under such harsh conditions lol I also really love Gilly and think she is very brave and tough to risk so much to save her child

 

4. The "mistakes" Sansa makes in AGOT could have been easily avoided through different parenting from Ned. I still think Ned was a good and appropriate father for the Middle Ages though.

5. I love Jon (the most) in ADWD. That's when he really grows a lot as character and comes into his own. I think he is a terrific leader. He is willing to make the hard choices even at the risk of becoming unpopular, because he believes in them and thinks they are necessary. I really don't know what he could have done differently/better. he has a lot of people pressuring him and pulling him into different directions, but he still doesn't crumble under the pressure and stays true to what he believes will be the best thing for everyone. Even though being LC is nothing he wants and he makes great sacrifices, when forsaking WF and a possible family of his own, even though with Stannis' help he could have gotten that so easily.

6. I don't find either Jon/Ygritte nor Dany/Drogo, Dany/Daario, Dany/Jorah romantic

7. I find the whole "Jorah is just so undyingly in love with Dany, that's why he'll do anything for her, even though she'll never love him back"  weird and unrealistic and masochistic from Jorah's pov- therefore extremely toxic. Like what is this love even based on, given the fact that she was only 13, when he met her, while he was in his mid-40s? Seems it's mostly based on looks, since she is so beautiful and looks like his former wife, (who he seemed to have also picked mainly on looks)- which is also creepy IMO- not romantic to me

8. I really like Sansa in AGOT

9. I dislike the Tyrells even more, than the Lannisters. I think they are backstabbing snakes, who pretend to be roses upfront. They let others do the dirty work, while benefitting from it and pretending to not be the bad guys. I especially dislike Garlan. This guy is way too friendly to everyone. It's suspicious. IMO Garlan and Mag are constantly gallant and lovely as a distraction, while Olenna does the poisoning behind everyone's back.

10. I think Sandor was abusive towards Sansa and Arya, but I don't think he ever intended to rape Sansa or even though about it; I don't think he is a rapist or torturer in general, but has probably (how Arya called it) "killed a hundred Mycahs." - killed a lot of innocent people on the Lannisters' command.

11. I like Renly, but I think he is really not such a nice guy. Who would fall in their brother's back like that? It was clear there would be fighting between them and one of them would have to die. Also his attitude towards Brienne was really shallow and messed up (if we can trust Loras' words) This girl would have given her life for him after all.

12. I really love Bran and his chapters. Never found them boring. I love his dreams, I love the stories, I love all the emotional stuff he goes through, love Meera, Jojen, Hodor and Bloodraven and love Bran himself. I think there is no reason to believe he won't be able to leave after finishing is training or at least learning a lot.  

13. I think Arya is a very complex and complicated character (and I love her)

14. I think Sansa is very tough and smart and emotionally intelligent

15. I don't think LF's goal is the throne. While I think he is very smart, I also believe he had a lot of luck as well and was just willing to risk a lot, being very reckless and without any scruple. Until now this has worked for him, but I think he might run out of luck one day. GRRM has said before there is a lot of the Great Gatsby in LF. LF seems to be very hung up on Cat and the Tullys still. And he tells everyone and their mother ( or daughter in this case lol ) that he had sex with Lysa and Cat. That doesn't hint at being an emotionally well adjusted adult man. So IMO his ultimate goal is to get what he always viewed as his: the girl, that was denied to him(Sansa-Cat2.0) and now also WF - he basically always wanted to be Brandon Stark himself and revenge on the Tullys and Starks.

16. Brienne's chapters in Feast are my second most favorite in the whole series

17. Feast is my second favorite book after AGOT

18. I don't like Oberyn, but I am looking forward to what his daughters will do

19. I don't understand the hype around Bronn- especially as a Tyrion fan (But it's funny he named his son Tyrion)

20. I don't understand the hype around Cleganeblow. I rather think it would be tragic and hollywood-like, if that happens. To me it would take away from the realism and the emotional weight of that relationship. In real life you rarely get to have "one last fight" with your abuser. The real battle is about healing yourself and getting rid of the power the abuser has over you. And I think it's a stupid name (but not as stupid as all the million Cleganebowl videos lol - sorry, if that's mean)

21. I intensely dislike every "shipping name", but I find it silly, to be upset or annoyed about shipping- why not let others have their fun?- I don't care and don't mind it at all

22. It's weird to me, there is so much talk about, who is most legitimate to be the next king. To me it's clearly Stannis, he is the next in line. He rightfully feels so entitled IMO. If Dany can take the throne from him- so be it. But until then, Stannis is obviously the rightful heir to the late King Bobby.

23. IMO Ned has a lot of responsibility for Jon's and Cat's suffering and should have told Cat the truth or at least, that Jon was not his son, but also not reveal more about his identity. He should have at least tried harder to give Cat a chance to heal from this and not basically commanded her to shut up about it, since he saw it both effected her and innocent little Jon. IMO Ned is just as responsible for any not so great treatment Jon had to endure, than Cat is. IMO in this case the the benefits would have outweighed the risks. 

24. I think Arya and Sansa will become really close in the future, will complement each other excellently and form an awesome team.

25. I don't hate Joffrey (don't know why)

26. I find Jaime's personality sorta annoying (even though funny) at times, but I actually think he is not such a bad guy from the start. He has at least never hurt anyone for no reason whatsoever like Cersei and Tyrion have done. He has never tortured or raped someone. He doesn't share the same villainies qualities.

27. Having been abused in childhood is no direct justification/explanation for doing horrible things as an adult. A lot of people have had horrible childhoods, who don't make other innocent people suffer because of it. Sam, Gilly and Dany (Sansa) all had do endure severe childhood abuse and still, that doesn't lead them to arbitrarily hurt others, who don't deserve it and are innocent.

28. I think Theon is a rapist

29. Drogo's death was my happiest reading day.

[FictionIsntReal]

2 hours ago, Peach King said:

-Rhaenyra was not that bad a person. She only executed traitors who committed treason as far as I know, and she never harmed Alicent and Halaena when they were fully in her power (I'm disregarding the rumours about what she had done to them since Fire and Blood says they were far-fetched), and she only ordered Addam and Nettles killed when she was deeply paranoid and had lost almost everyone close to her.

I'm not going to excuse away the self-defeating murders she ordered out of paranoia. She's also implicated in Blood & Cheese killing Jaehaerys, and she earlier had Daemon kill Vaemond for calling her children bastards (something the text seems to imply about as heavily as it can to be factual). That's as a person, as a queen she got herself overthrown by the people of King's Landing by forcing high taxes on people who'd already paid and then throwing a lavish party for her son.

[Nagini's Neville]

2 hours ago, Peach King said:

-I don't really get why people romanticize Melisandre and Stannis. She says herself that he would never love her, only make use of her, he threatens her with death several times, and is mostly only with her because she's feeding his ego by telling him he's Azor Ahai. Much romance, such feminism, wow. 

I never knew anyone romanticized this  Hm, don't think Stannis could kill Mel -even, if he wanted to  If she dies it will be only to serve the LoL

1 hour ago, The Map Guy said:

Jon has a twin sister, and no one wants to talk about it for who knows why

Luke and Leia? 

[corbon]

Ned is a traitor. He is as responsible as the Lannisters for everything that happened after Robert died.

He committed treason when he changed Robert's will rather than inform Robert of the truth immediately. Everything follows from that one act of misplaced compassion for his friend. 

Don't get me wrong, I love Ned perhaps more than any other character. But he got this one horribly, horribly wrong. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and Ned took all of Westeros there with his.

[frenin]

1.  Elia being ok with the prophecy or agree with the Lyanna thing is something has zero sense politically and even personally and it's only there to calm the conscience of Rhaegar and Lyanna fandom.
2.  Ned did nothing wrong by trying to protect Cersei's children.
3.  Ned fucked up big time by not telling the truth to Robert on his deathbed, even with Robert dying he could've stopped the Lannisters.
4.  Jaime does not give a shit about his children really, him trying to kill Bran was only done to save his and Cersei's necks, which makes him irredeemable in my eyes. 
5. Saying that Cat abused Jon is not only stupid but bad fanfiction.
6.  Ned did good by not telling Cat the truth, how Cat felt and acted towards an innocent kid is entirely on her, she is a grown up, she should understand that kids are not resposible for their father's mistakes. Blaming Jon, albeit understandable, was the coward thing to do
7.  Cat is not crazy for thinking that Jon could be a potential threat to her kids.
8.  Sansa saying that Jon is a bastard don't mean shit.
9. Jaeharys clearly usurped his niece's throne and Egg did the same 200 hundred years later.
10.  Daemon Blackfyre seems a pretty great guy.
11.  People blaming Brandon for the Robellion are in denial that Rhaegar fucked up, Brandon's reaction (if he thought Lyanna was kidnapped) is completely understandable. The whole there would be no war without Brandon is a escapegoat.
12.  Cersei does not love Jaime and certainly does not love her kids. 
13.  Robert decided to get carried away by depression, as bad as it sounds, he had a great life and a new opportunity in Cersei and threw it overboard. The whole Lyanna thing is more pathetic than romantic.
14. Feast is better than Storm of Swords.
15. Dany should've killed the slavers.
16. Dany's approach to Quentyn was ludicrous and her allowing Daario to shit talk Q was even more stupid and is going to cost her Dorne forever.
17. Jon's chapters are super boring.
18. Rickon is going to be the Lord of Winterfell at the end of the books.
19. Sweetrobin is going to survive.
20. Sansa letting her own cousin to die would make her irredeemable.
21. I don't care how much a damaged person Lysa was, the woman is truly awful and i feel no pity for her.
22. Martin's tendencies about incest and child marriage and romance are unsettling.
23. Androw Farman deserved far better than Rhaena, he covered her up and she treated and allowed people to treat him like shit for no good reason.
24. Jaeharys was an asshole.
25. Westerosi war are incredibly short.
26. Whereas the Targs were complete dicks to try to win Dorne by force, Meria Martell fucked her people for no other reason than pride,  she should've bent the knee and spared Westeros its most brutal war since the conquest.
27. Egg was a a mediocre king and in his final years a would be tyrant.
28. Dany is going to burn KL.
29. Cat should've stayed dead, in fact every dead should stay dead.
30. Stannis is incredibly toxic and pathetic for 2 books.
31. I don't give a damn about what George has to say on this, Meli quite literally kills people who don't share her religion, that makes her a very bad person. 
32. Arianne and her cousins are idiots and her cousins are quite literally the worst Dorne has to offer.
33. I see no difference between patient and coward when it comes to Doran, his master plan is a sham and he is literally going to kill children because he does not know how to stop.
34. The very fact that half the Realm backed Aerys and Rhaegar tells us how fucked up Westeros is.
35. Euron is simply disgusting, not disgutingly mysterious, just plain awful and full of shit.
36. Quentyn shouldn't have died, that was overly cruel and made just to make a point.
37. Jon resurrection  is the worst that Martin could've come up with.
38. Westeros would be better off with Myrce as Queen.

[Crona]

Ok well I’m going to take a shot at some unconventional opinions I have:

- Rhaegar having Jon with Lyanna completed a self fulfilling prophecy and instead brought destruction.

- Varys hatched his plot to destroy the Lannisters during the sack of King’s Landing and found his tool for a civil war with Joffrey’s birth.

- Lemore’s child was switched with Aegon. This is the reason Lemore has stretch marks but no child and the reason Aegon was only switched.

- “Serra” is actually Elissa Farman, whom Illyrio inherited the dragon eggs from. “Serra’s hands” may actually refer to Elissa’a fate. I think Elissa eventually contracted greyscale and went to Asshai to look for a cure. This is the reason her ship was last seen there.

[Peach King]

3 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

I'm not going to excuse away the self-defeating murders she ordered out of paranoia. She's also implicated in Blood & Cheese killing Jaehaerys, and she earlier had Daemon kill Vaemond for calling her children bastards (something the text seems to imply about as heavily as it can to be factual). That's as a person, as a queen she got herself overthrown by the people of King's Landing by forcing high taxes on people who'd already paid and then throwing a lavish party for her son.

 Saying that the queen's children are bastards is tantamount to treason though? Daemon hired Blood and Cheese himself and sent a cryptic message from Harrenhall telling her Lucerys would be avenged, Rhaenyra wasn't really complicit. The taxes thing was dumb but they were mostly out of options.

3 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

I never knew anyone romanticized this  Hm, don't think Stannis could kill Mel -even, if he wanted to  If she dies it will be only to serve the LoL

Yeah people ship them, and I've seen stuff about how great it is that Stannis lets a woman and a lowborn woman at that, hold power in his court, nevermind that Stannis is a total misogynist and is only using Melisandre for her powers, something she herself admits.