Unconventional opinions dumpsterfire of a thread

[Back door hodor]

18 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Oh, thanks! You don't have to, I can look myself! Maybe it's silly to obsess over this, I just think there are conflicting messages in the text in that regard. But maybe that's the nature of the time period, that there are no clear rules to protect "children" and childhood is just not  sacred, given also child labor and child soldiers. So maybe the rule is "if you look like a woman (or what they think that is) and had your period, you are a woman" and maybe GRRM thought the time would pass quicker in general even without the time jump. I can see how that could happen as a gardener. 

To me the young crew is just written extremely well- age-appropriately- so I just can't really picture them older.

I mean you are largely right, there is no clear age of adulthood. For example, Joffery, in the aftermath of Robert's death at least 4 different factions try to take(or discuss plans to take) joffery(and thus the throne into thier power), sure Ned writes the until he comes of age caveat into the will, but what is of age?

Joffery is 15, historical precedent says he could lead on his own, if he had the power to do so. When Jearyers I and Alysanne seize power the conciliator is 14, in the world book we also see Benjicott Blackwood leading men into battle and being called lord also at age 14, even looking in the main books, Jon is 15 or 16 when he is elected LC, and nights watch records speak of an even younger commander (Sam tells Jon about him, he was a Stark).

 

 

[Lollygag]

The Starks vs Targs conflict is a slight of hand diversionary tactic. Other magical families are the Lannisters and Greyjoys who have been POVs from the beginning (maybe more in the Hightowers, Daynes, Whents/Harrenhal) and they'll all play a big role.

Jon is a sort of hero of the series, but he won't be a fist-pump comic book sort as some seem to expect here. He'll take a dark turn and do some messed up stuff. Hard times, hard men. Will be controversial and uncomfortable as I expect most characters will be. Some folks here are a step away from giving him a mask and cape.

Ned, Cat and Robb didn't get their reunions. It's not a given the remaining Starks will get one either.

Dany's character development suffered a lot after the introduction of the dragons but her last chapter is promising.

Sansa won't become LF jr or any master player at 14 years old. She'll know a bit more than the rest of the Starks and have a few select advantages and that'll be enough.

R+L. I despise it. I can't see Rhaegar as anything but an emo pedo who ditched his wife and kids to knock up a girl just this side of puberty and endangered her life in the process as she was too skinny and too young to safely have a kid. GRRM hasn't been nice to older guys who are into girls so young. He even had Illyrio and Viserys side-eye Drago for being into 13-year old Dany.

Tywin knew about the plot against Joff and allowed it to happen. There were at least two plots during the Purple Wedding. Both the wine and the pie/sword were involved. He's been trying to kill Tyrion for a long time.

GRRM likes to trick the readers into making the same mistakes as the characters. He's leading the readers to play the Game of Thrones in rooting for certain families over others and will make readers pay for that.

In a parallel to Bran, Jon is only in a coma.

Illyrio is Gerion Lannister but Aegon is probably not his son. Gerion was fond of kids in general.

While visions and dreams are solid in the series, prophesies, while still being very story-relevant, are more or less b.s. as presented. Maggy's valonqar prophesy isn't a prophesy, it was a vision, promise and mostly curse. Maggy married into the Reynes somehow and they're the "little brother" red lion to the Lannisters' gold lion.

 

[kissdbyfire]

1 hour ago, Nagini's Neville said:

So there is this guy, he is an officer or something, in the army or something. He has this 12 year old sister, who has been married without his knowledge to the worst sadist and rapist there is. He thinks he can find a way to help her, while not not hurting his army or something. Do people really believe he made a mistake by trying to save his sister? especially since he finds a way, where he thinks no one will be at a disadvantage because of it. Is it better then to just get rid of your own brain and morals and heart, never think for yourself and follow orders and duty like a brain-dead zombie? Were the KG supposed to just chill outside the door, while listening to Rhella's screams of pure agony, probably not dissimilar from jeyne poole's screams of agony.

Trying to save a young girl from never-ending torture is a sign of having a good heart and right moral compass of being a decent moral human being with empathy. And that that's portrayed as something wrong is unfathomable to me.

I'd say, if you don't wanna save your own sister from such an awful fate, especially if you see a way to do that without hurting others, there is quite frankly something wrong with you.

And also what would you do if it was your sibling? 

Well said.

And let’s not forget that Ramsay, being the stupid psycho he is, gave Jon a perfect opening when he threatened Jon’s life, the NW, and several guests under the Watch and its commander’s protection. 

Only page 5... I had such high hopes of another record being broken here, but alas, it was not meant to be.

 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

1 hour ago, Nagini's Neville said:

So there is this guy, he is an officer or something, in the army or something. He has this 12 year old sister, who has been married without his knowledge to the worst sadist and rapist there is. He thinks he can find a way to help her, while not not hurting his army or something. Do people really believe he made a mistake by trying to save his sister? especially since he finds a way, where he thinks no one will be at a disadvantage because of it. Is it better then to just get rid of your own brain and morals and heart, never think for yourself and follow orders and duty like a brain-dead zombie? Were the KG supposed to just chill outside the door, while listening to Rhella's screams of pure agony, probably not dissimilar from jeyne poole's screams of agony.

Trying to save a young girl from never-ending torture is a sign of having a good heart and right moral compass of being a decent moral human being with empathy. And that that's portrayed as something wrong is unfathomable to me.

I'd say, if you don't wanna save your own sister from such an awful fate, especially if you see a way to do that without hurting others, there is quite frankly something wrong with you.

And also what would you do if it was your sibling? 

Jon is the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.  Gathering the wildlings for the purposes of attacking Roose and Ramsay Bolton is illegal.  The Night's Watch is not supposed to interfere with the politics of the kingdom.  The Night's Watch takes no part.  And what Jon was doing and what he was planning to do were far from harmless.  Just look at the injustice in the way he treated Janos Slynt and Mance Rayder.  His judgment was badly compromised by his feelings for his old family.  Jon as the commander represent the Night's Watch.  Any involvement on his part is an involvement of the Night's Watch.  

I'm on record here in saying a craftsman who puts the welfare of his sister ahead of his duties can be forgiven.  A farmer who placed the safety of his sister over his duties to the harvest can probably be forgiven, depending on how badly the society needed the fruits of that harvest.  But the leader of an order like the Night's Watch cannot be forgiven for what Jon was doing and about to do.  He was going to get his sister even if it will result in treason.  Jon is not known for being a smart man but even he should have known the damage he would create at the Wall. 

"what would you do if it was your sibling?"

You are trying to play on emotions.  A leader is required to make an objective decision and place a higher priority on the greater good.  Jon did not do that.  

I was in the military.  I knew many soldiers who had loved ones back home but they never allowed that to compromise them in their duties.  Many had sick parents, spouse, children, siblings, etc.  They would rather be home but their country needed them to be where they are.  They stayed.  I have met emergency workers for utility and other critical services who had families and homes in danger but their jobs required them to be somewhere helping protect other families and homes.  They did their jobs.  A man like Jon Snow has no excuse.   

[frenin]

Btw, The political and backstabbing trama with hints is far more intriguing and interesting that boring Bran stuff and the Other stuff. 

 

1 minute ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Just look at the injustice in the way he treated Janos Slynt and Mance Rayder.

There is no injustice there.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

3 minutes ago, frenin said:

depends of the importance or role of that person in the society or  hierarchy. the actions of a child don't carry the same weight than those of an adult neither the actions of a king carry the same weight of the actions of a peasant and neither does the actions of the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.

Sure but Jon made it pretty clear to his men that he was not asking or ordering them to participate so in this instance I don't think it can be said that the NW was participating OR that Jon dragged the NW into this. 

5 minutes ago, frenin said:

When Baelor went to Dorne alone, he was representing Westeros. Jon is representing the Wall and whether we like it or not, Jon was about to break a sacred rule. Quite the only rule, don't mess with the south

But we agree it was Jon breaking (or not breaking, depending on how you look at it) this rule right? Not the NW as a whole, but Jon, solely. 

I do think there is something to be said for that fact that Jon & the NW were threatened first, not the other way around. I don't think part of their rule is to allow people to attack them without recourse, even when said people are of the south. 

7 minutes ago, frenin said:

shouldn't. Jon shouldn't have taken oaths he was not ready to uphold, as simple as that, i'm quite sure that every single guy up there has family too, i'm pretty sure that every one of them has loved ones that were ravaged by war... If everyone of them did what Jon did, the Wall would crumble

Jon was ready & willing to uphold his oaths. He knows his sister is married to a sadistic fuck & does nothing, to uphold his vow. He doesn't act until he has a premise to do so out side of his sister being involved. 

Not that I think that's a good thing, I think he should have done something as soon as he heard. 

10 minutes ago, frenin said:

Don't join then, i would simply never join an order that forced me to severe all my ties, for this exact reason. Again, i'd do the exact same Jon did... But what i wouldn't do is cry foul play when someone put me down. As harsh as it may sound, don't join the Kingsguard and don't join the Watch, because there is simply so much injustice going on there, if you still join and stand up to injustice, bravo, but that has its consequences

It has its consequences from inside said order, but from the outside looking in it's hard to fathom that readers truly believe what Jon did deserves what Bowen did. 

11 minutes ago, frenin said:

When it came to Jon he chose time after time family and had to be deterred by force, he used loopholes with the Arya thing... But it was playing hot potatoe with a grenade

He wasn't deterred by force when he tried to desert. He came back willingly, albeit for his own reasons & again, the Ramsay situation isn't using loopholes IMO & if it is he should have found said loopholes earlier. 

13 minutes ago, frenin said:

Ramsay threatens him on the premise that he has his wife and so on.

I don't think that matters. Jon doesn't have his wife so Ramsay is mistaken. That's not Jon's fault & it isn't as if Jon can just write back & say - sorry bud I don't have her, truce? - Jon cannot physically meet some of his demands & cannot morally meet the other of them. 

 

14 minutes ago, frenin said:

That's what Ramsay says, Jon should've written him and said that he does not have his bride and that the Watch does car abouy Westeros petty wars. He should've gone to Winterfell as en envoy, all that before marching with an army at his back, that should be the last resort

I disagree. Ramsay made his demands & made it clear what he intended to do if they were not met. Jon is under no obligation to barter with him. Ramsay made the threat with full intent on backing it, Jon is answering it. Naught to do with helping Arya.

[Nagini's Neville]

17 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

R+L. I despise it. I can't see Rhaegar as anything but an emo pedo who ditched his wife and kids to knock up a girl just this side of puberty and endangered her life in the process as she was too skinny and too young to safely have a kid. GRRM hasn't been nice to older guys who are into girls so young. He even had Illyrio and Viserys side-eye Drago for being into 13-year old Dany.

Right? I had that impression as well. But other readers interpret it as Viserys just being cruel to Dany. 

[Here's Looking At You, Kid]

1 minute ago, frenin said:

Btw, The political and backstabbing trama with hints is far more intriguing and interesting that boring Bran stuff and the Other stuff. 

 

There is no injustice there.

Plenty of injustice there.  Janos and Mance are both members of the Night's Watch.  They have taken the oaths.  Both were guilty of insubordination.  Janos' was mild by comparison.  Mance disobeyed his commander, deserted, and fought the Watch.  Killing Janos and letting Mance off is an injustice.  Either forgive the both of them or punish them both.  

[Arthur Peres]

23 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

R+L. I despise it. I can't see Rhaegar as anything but an emo pedo who ditched his wife and kids to knock up a girl just this side of puberty and endangered her life in the process as she was too skinny and too young to safely have a kid. GRRM hasn't been nice to older guys who are into girls so young. He even had Illyrio and Viserys side-eye Drago for being into 13-year old Dany.

 

Agree 100%.

But I don't remember of Viserys and Iliryio side-eye Drogo. If I not mistaken Viserys wanted Dany for himself.

[Dot Com]

14 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

But I don't remember of Viserys and Iliryio side-eye Drogo. If I not mistaken Viserys wanted Dany for himself.

That was Illyrio. This is what he says to Tyrion: 

Quote

Daenerys was half a child when she came to me, yet fairer even than my second wife, so lovely I was tempted to claim her for myself. Such a fearful, furtive thing, however, I knew I should get no joy from coupling with her. Instead I summoned a bed-warmer and fucked her vigorously until the madness passed

Um... 

[Lollygag]

2 minutes ago, Arthur Peres said:

Agree 100%.

But I don't remember of Viserys and Iliryio side-eye Drogo. If I not mistaken Viserys wanted Dany for himself.

You're sort of right in that readers were told that by Illyrio, but Dany reports differently. Viserys compares sleeping with Dany at 13 to being interested in bestiality.

 

AGOT Daenerys I

"I do," he said sharply. "We go home with an army, sweet sister. With Khal Drogo's army, that is how we go home. And if you must wed him and bed him for that, you will." He smiled at her. "I'd let his whole khalasar fuck you if need be, sweet sister, all forty thousand men, and their horses too if that was what it took to get my army. Be grateful it is only Drogo. In time you may even learn to like him. Now dry your eyes. Illyrio is bringing him over, and he will not see you crying."

...

"Smile," Viserys whispered nervously, his hand falling to the hilt of his sword. "And stand up straight. Let him see that you have breasts. Gods know, you have little enough as is."

...

"Regal," Magister Illyrio said, stepping through an archway. He moved with surprising delicacy for such a massive man. Beneath loose garments of flame-colored silk, rolls of fat jiggled as he walked. Gemstones glittered on every finger, and his man had oiled his forked yellow beard until it shone like real gold. "May the Lord of Light shower you with blessings on this most fortunate day, Princess Daenerys," the magister said as he took her hand. He bowed his head, showing a thin glimpse of crooked yellow teeth through the gold of his beard. "She is a vision, Your Grace, a vision," he told her brother. "Drogo will be enraptured."

"She's too skinny," Viserys said. His hair, the same silver-blond as hers, had been pulled back tightly behind his head and fastened with a dragonbone brooch. It was a severe look that emphasized the hard, gaunt lines of his face. He rested his hand on the hilt of the sword that Illyrio had lent him, and said, "Are you sure that Khal Drogo likes his women this young?"

"She has had her blood. She is old enough for the khal," Illyrio told him, not for the first time. "Look at her. That silver-gold hair, those purple eyes … she is the blood of old Valyria, no doubt, no doubt … and highborn, daughter of the old king, sister to the new, she cannot fail to entrance our Drogo." When he released her hand, Daenerys found herself trembling.

"I suppose," her brother said doubtfully. "The savages have queer tastes. Boys, horses, sheep …"

AGOT Daenerys IV

"He had better," Viserys said grimly. "I was promised a crown, and I mean to have it. The dragon is not mocked." Spying an obscene likeness of a woman with six breasts and a ferret's head, he rode off to inspect it more closely.

ADWD Tyrion II

(Illyrio speaking)

"Dothraki neither buy nor sell. Say rather that her brother Viserys gave her to Drogo to win the khal's friendship. A vain young man, and greedy. Viserys lusted for his father's throne, but he lusted for Daenerys too, and was loath to give her up. The night before the princess wed he tried to steal into her bed, insisting that if he could not have her hand, he would claim her maidenhead. Had I not taken the precaution of posting guards upon her door, Viserys might have undone years of planning."

ASOS Jaime V

That seemed to amuse the Lord of the Dreadfort. "My lady, has no one told you? Lannisters lie."

[Arthur Peres]

Just now, Dot Com said:

That was Illyrio. This is what he says to Tyrion: 

Daenerys was half a child when she came to me, yet fairer even than my second wife, so lovely I was tempted to claim her for myself. Such a fearful, furtive thing, however, I knew I should get no joy from coupling with her. Instead I summoned a bed-warmer and fucked her vigorously until the madness passed

 Um... 

I didn't remember this either lol.

I was thinking of this passage:

A vain young man, and greedy. Viserys lusted for his father's throne, but he lusted for Daenerys too, and was loath to give her up. The night before the princess wed he tried to steal into her bed, insisting that if he could not have her hand, he would claim her maidenhead. Had I not taken the precaution of posting guards upon her door, Viserys might have undone years of planning."

[SeanF]

40 minutes ago, Here's Looking At You, Kid said:

Jon is the Lord Commander of the Night's Watch.  Gathering the wildlings for the purposes of attacking Roose and Ramsay Bolton is illegal.  The Night's Watch is not supposed to interfere with the politics of the kingdom.  The Night's Watch takes no part.  And what Jon was doing and what he was planning to do were far from harmless.  Just look at the injustice in the way he treated Janos Slynt and Mance Rayder.  His judgment was badly compromised by his feelings for his old family.  Jon as the commander represent the Night's Watch.  Any involvement on his part is an involvement of the Night's Watch.  

I'm on record here in saying a craftsman who puts the welfare of his sister ahead of his duties can be forgiven.  A farmer who placed the safety of his sister over his duties to the harvest can probably be forgiven, depending on how badly the society needed the fruits of that harvest.  But the leader of an order like the Night's Watch cannot be forgiven for what Jon was doing and about to do.  He was going to get his sister even if it will result in treason.  Jon is not known for being a smart man but even he should have known the damage he would create at the Wall. 

"what would you do if it was your sibling?"

You are trying to play on emotions.  A leader is required to make an objective decision and place a higher priority on the greater good.  Jon did not do that.  

I was in the military.  I knew many soldiers who had loved ones back home but they never allowed that to compromise them in their duties.  Many had sick parents, spouse, children, siblings, etc.  They would rather be home but their country needed them to be where they are.  They stayed.  I have met emergency workers for utility and other critical services who had families and homes in danger but their jobs required them to be somewhere helping protect other families and homes.  They did their jobs.  A man like Jon Snow has no excuse.   

I think very few soldiers would stand by and watch their siblings being raped and murdered, firmly convinced that this is the right thing to do.

 

26 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Right? I had that impression as well. But other readers interpret it as Viserys just being cruel to Dany. 

Illyrio and Viserys both lusted after Dany's hot twelve year old body.

[Nagini's Neville]

54 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

R+L. I despise it. I can't see Rhaegar as anything but an emo pedo who ditched his wife and kids to knock up a girl just this side of puberty and endangered her life in the process as she was too skinny and too young to safely have a kid. GRRM hasn't been nice to older guys who are into girls so young. He even had Illyrio and Viserys side-eye Drago for being into 13-year old Dany.

I don't know, if GRRM wants to make a commentary about older men, who are into really young girls. There are just a bit to many of them, apparently Viserys and Illyrio as well. I just wish GRRM would have been clearer about what is culturally appropriate in universe in that regard. If child marriages are, he should have at least made that clearer IMO

12 minutes ago, SeanF said:

Illyrio and Viserys both lusted after Dany's hot twelve year old body.

 that's really disgusting. Illyrio knew her even younger than Drogo. I wish I'd never had to read those words in this order put together ever again   maybe I should try another series 

[Nagini's Neville]

28 minutes ago, frenin said:

It shouldn't. Jon shouldn't have taken oaths he was not ready to uphold, as simple as that, i'm quite sure that every single guy up there has family too, i'm pretty sure that every one of them has loved ones that were ravaged by war... If everyone of them did what Jon did, the Wall would crumble. 

That's more of a problem of the society of that world, that demands very young men to make an oath, that they should uphold all their lives, that they don't even know what that really means yet. Reminds me of the very young soldiers, who were indoctrinated what an honor and glory to fight for their country in the first and second WW. Reminds me of "nothing new in the west"

Honestly I think Ned should have been a stricter father to all of his children. He should have had a talk with Jon and should have forbidden him to join the NW that young. He should have found another place for Jon until he was a bit older. Or couldn't it have been possible to just work at the wall without joining it yet? Something like that- he should have been stricter.

And when it comes to the likability of characters to me I don't care wether they break an oath (if they have good reason, I even like them better, if they do) or not, I care, that they try to do the morally right and empathetic thing (and I agree that's subjective) at best no matter the consequences. 

To me nothing, that Jon did threatened the wall to crumble and as others have pointed out Jon had a reason for his actions also for the sake of the watch

[Lollygag]

9 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

I don't know, if GRRM wants to make a commentary about older men, who are into really young girls. There are just a bit to many of them, apparently Viserys and Illyrio as well. I just wish GRRM would have been clearer about what is culturally appropriate in universe in that regard. If child marriages are, he should have at least made that clearer IMO

 that's really disgusting. Illyrio knew her even younger than Drogo. I wish I'd never had to read those words in this order put together ever again   maybe I should try another series 

The criticism is very clear and consistent, but I agree that it's been much too subtle and I'd rather it not be there at all if it's not absolutely necessary to the story. I took @SeanF post as sarcasm.

Viserys compares Dany to being interested in bestiality and Illyrio acknowledges it as atypical to say the least (quotes in my previous post). With Sansa on her wedding night, Tyrion calls himself out as being messed up for being interested in Sansa because of her age. Then there's LF's grooming of Sansa. We get the same treatment with Arya when she gets a bit older. Doesn't bode well for how Rhaegar will be portrayed when we get more info.

Adding, he's also critical of Cersei/Lancel and Marg/Tommen to be fair.

 

[Nagini's Neville]

1 minute ago, Lollygag said:

I took @SeanF post as sarcasm.

yeah, me too lol. But it was obviously true for Illyrio and Viserys.

7 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

Viserys compares Dany to being interested in bestiality and Illyrio acknowledges it as atypical to say the least

Yes, but apparently they did it themselves. And not only them but almost every other man she comes across, similar with Sansa. But I also thought Tyrion called himself out for Sansa still being a child, because he called her such almost every time he thinks/ talks about her.

[Lady Anna]

11 hours ago, The Bard of Banefort said:

Oh, I thought of one more: out of all five of the Stark children, Arya is the one who takes after Catelyn the most  

YES, I agree. I would also say Sansa takes after Ned a bit.

[Lollygag]

Just now, Nagini's Neville said:

yeah, me too lol. But it was obviously true for Illyrio and Viserys.

Yes, but apparently they did it themselves. And not only them but almost every other man she comes across, similar with Sansa. But I also thought Tyrion called himself out for Sansa still being a child, because he called her such almost every time he thinks/ talks about her.

It wasn't true for Viserys and Illyrio.

40 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

You're sort of right in that readers were told that by Illyrio, but Dany reports differently. Viserys compares sleeping with Dany at 13 to being interested in bestiality.

 

AGOT Daenerys I

"I do," he said sharply. "We go home with an army, sweet sister. With Khal Drogo's army, that is how we go home. And if you must wed him and bed him for that, you will." He smiled at her. "I'd let his whole khalasar fuck you if need be, sweet sister, all forty thousand men, and their horses too if that was what it took to get my army. Be grateful it is only Drogo. In time you may even learn to like him. Now dry your eyes. Illyrio is bringing him over, and he will not see you crying."

...

"Smile," Viserys whispered nervously, his hand falling to the hilt of his sword. "And stand up straight. Let him see that you have breasts. Gods know, you have little enough as is."

...

"Regal," Magister Illyrio said, stepping through an archway. He moved with surprising delicacy for such a massive man. Beneath loose garments of flame-colored silk, rolls of fat jiggled as he walked. Gemstones glittered on every finger, and his man had oiled his forked yellow beard until it shone like real gold. "May the Lord of Light shower you with blessings on this most fortunate day, Princess Daenerys," the magister said as he took her hand. He bowed his head, showing a thin glimpse of crooked yellow teeth through the gold of his beard. "She is a vision, Your Grace, a vision," he told her brother. "Drogo will be enraptured."

"She's too skinny," Viserys said. His hair, the same silver-blond as hers, had been pulled back tightly behind his head and fastened with a dragonbone brooch. It was a severe look that emphasized the hard, gaunt lines of his face. He rested his hand on the hilt of the sword that Illyrio had lent him, and said, "Are you sure that Khal Drogo likes his women this young?"

"She has had her blood. She is old enough for the khal," Illyrio told him, not for the first time. "Look at her. That silver-gold hair, those purple eyes … she is the blood of old Valyria, no doubt, no doubt … and highborn, daughter of the old king, sister to the new, she cannot fail to entrance our Drogo." When he released her hand, Daenerys found herself trembling.

"I suppose," her brother said doubtfully. "The savages have queer tastes. Boys, horses, sheep …"

AGOT Daenerys IV

"He had better," Viserys said grimly. "I was promised a crown, and I mean to have it. The dragon is not mocked." Spying an obscene likeness of a woman with six breasts and a ferret's head, he rode off to inspect it more closely.

ADWD Tyrion II

(Illyrio speaking)

"Dothraki neither buy nor sell. Say rather that her brother Viserys gave her to Drogo to win the khal's friendship. A vain young man, and greedy. Viserys lusted for his father's throne, but he lusted for Daenerys too, and was loath to give her up. The night before the princess wed he tried to steal into her bed, insisting that if he could not have her hand, he would claim her maidenhead. Had I not taken the precaution of posting guards upon her door, Viserys might have undone years of planning."

ASOS Jaime V

That seemed to amuse the Lord of the Dreadfort. "My lady, has no one told you? Lannisters lie."

 

[Nagini's Neville]

@Lollygag sorry, I've read it, I just don't get it. I have to read those passages again to understand the context.

But like you I also didn't remember Illyrio and Viserys being into Dany, but finding it weird, that Drogo would want to marry such a young girl. So you are probably right.