Will tyrion have a dark fate?

[Alyn Oakenfist]

11 minutes ago, King17 said:

Shae still falsely testified against him her reasons for doing so are utterly irrelevant.

Not to mention going on about how much she loved him, making it all so much worse, especially when she took Tywin in.

[Vaith]

16 minutes ago, King17 said:

Several Lord's rape smallfolk many girls are forced to wed men they don't want to. What Tyrion did is no better or worse then that. 

Shae still falsely testified against him her reasons for doing so are utterly irrelevant.

some people poison or kill people to get a lordship this does not prevent them from getting said lordship

First night is banned throughout Westeros, I think you'll find. Many likely coerce vulnerable women into situations where they can't say no, but I wouldn't consider those lords good people. Moreover, the fact that it was a slave is relevant to Westeros, where someone like Jorah can be stripped of his titles (and probably would have been executed, had he not fled) for his participation in the trade.

Her reasons are irrelevant? Well, if you think so, then Shae's death is: cool motive, still murder.

Actually yes, being a known criminal can stop you getting a lordship. Tyrion has already been attainted by the crown, the very reason why Cersei is legal Lady of Casterly Rock instead of Jaime (disinherited as a KG) and Tyrion (disinherited as a criminal).

[King17]

4 minutes ago, Vaith said:

First night is banned throughout Westeros, I think you'll find. Many likely coerce vulnerable women into situations where they can't say no, but I wouldn't consider those lords good people. Moreover, the fact that it was a slave is relevant to Westeros, where someone like Jorah can be stripped of his titles (and probably would have been executed, had he not fled) for his participation in the trade.

Her reasons are irrelevant? Well, if you think so, then Shae's death is: cool motive, still murder.

Actually yes, being a known criminal can stop you getting a lordship. Tyrion has already been attainted by the crown, the very reason why Cersei is legal Lady of Casterly Rock instead of Jaime (disinherited as a KG) and Tyrion (disinherited as a criminal).

1 I never said it was good but it isn't something the Lord's of the 7 kingdoms would necessarily despise 

2 if someone like Shae did what she did to you  you wouldn't give a damn about her motives 

3 Dany could just as easily name Tyrion Lord of casterly rock regardless if he is a kinslayer so no it doesn't really matter.

[Vaith]

15 minutes ago, King17 said:

1 I never said it was good but it isn't something the Lord's of the 7 kingdoms would necessarily despise 

2 if someone like Shae did what she did to you  you wouldn't give a damn about her motives 

3 Dany could just as easily name Tyrion Lord of casterly rock regardless if he is a kinslayer so no it doesn't really matter.

1. Okay, but to us, as an audience, it shows that Tyrion is not a good person. Would he probably be tried for soliciting a slave, unfortunately not. But narratively it shows how far he has fallen at this point.

2. Believe it or not, I do not think that a likely coerced person giving false testimony should justify their murder.

3. That's assuming that Dany both takes the Iron Throne and keeps it for a long enough time for Tyrion to solidify his rule. That he is likely reviled in the west for Tywin's death is certain, and we cannot say for sure that in the end, a monarch will be on the throne who is willing to support an unpopular candidate.

[King17]

2 minutes ago, Vaith said:

1. Okay, but to us, as an audience, it shows that Tyrion is not a good person. Would he probably be tried for soliciting a slave, unfortunately not. But narratively it shows how far he has fallen at this point.

2. Believe it or not, I do not think that a likely coerced person giving false testimony should justify their murder.

3. That's assuming that Dany both takes the Iron Throne and keeps it for a long enough time for Tyrion to solidify his rule. That he is likely reviled in the west for Tywin's death is certain, and we cannot say for sure that in the end, a monarch will be on the throne who is willing to support an unpopular candidate.

2 killing shae may be wrong but in tyrions case I think one can understand why he did it 

3 bloodraven was hated this did not stop him from ruling the 7 kingdoms.

[Vaith]

Just now, King17 said:

2 killing shae may be wrong but in tyrions case I think one can understand why he did it 

3 bloodraven was hated this did not stop him from ruling the 7 kingdoms.

Understand the reasons he did it? Sure, but that doesn't mean I'm sympathetic. I still think he was pretty awful to act on those reasons.

Bloodraven had Aerys and Maekar backing up his important position in the realm. Who says there'll be someone who goes to the effort of installing Tyrion as Lord of Casterly Rock in the end?

[King17]

1 minute ago, Vaith said:

Understand the reasons he did it? Sure, but that doesn't mean I'm sympathetic. I still think he was pretty awful to act on those reasons.

Bloodraven had Aerys and Maekar backing up his important position in the realm. Who says there'll be someone who goes to the effort of installing Tyrion as Lord of Casterly Rock in the end

Shae helped sentence him to death for a crime he didn't commit I don't think those are awful reasons to act on 

While we don't know who will get the Iron Throne in the end  many of the claimants have no reason to love tywin and would likely back tyrions claim to the rock

[Vaith]

2 minutes ago, King17 said:

Shae helped sentence him to death for a crime he didn't commit I don't think those are awful reasons to act on 

While we don't know who will get the Iron Throne in the end  many of the claimants have no reason to love tywin and would likely back tyrions claim to the rock

Helped, but was not crucial. A lot of nobles also gave testimony against him, and Shae has far less freedom to say what she truly wants, being a commoner:

Quote

Lord Redwyne, Lord Celtigar, and Ser Flement Brax had heard Tyrion threaten the king; two serving men, a juggler, Lord Gyles, Ser Hobber Redwyne, and Ser Philip Foote had observed him fill the wedding chalice; Lady Merryweather swore that she had seen the dwarf drop something into the king's wine while Joff and Margaery were cutting the pie; old Estermont, young Peckledon, the singer Galyeon of Cuy, and the squires Morros and Jothos Slynt told how Tyrion had picked up the chalice as Joff was dying and poured out the last of the poisoned wine onto the floor.

Tyrion doesn't go after Flement Brax or Lord Redwyne. He has a personal grudge and likely would have been convicted without her testimony. So no, I don't think she deserved to die -- after all, by that point, Tyrion wasn't going to die, he was already in the process of escaping the Red Keep.

No reason to love Tywin? Okay, Tywin is dead. House Lannister is hardly a small house and there are other, less controversial candidates like Martyn alive right now who didn't kill a prior lord.

[Nagini's Neville]

1 hour ago, King17 said:

Shae still falsely testified against him her reasons for doing so are utterly irrelevant.

 

So if she has to risk her life if she doesn't testify, that's irrelevant?

[King17]

2 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

So if she has to risk her life if she doesn't testify, that's irrelevant?

Last I checked she did it for jewels zero indication her life in danger.

[Nagini's Neville]

5 minutes ago, King17 said:

Last I checked she did it for jewels zero indication her life in danger.

Cersei and Tywin were holding her and they wanted witnesses against Tyrion. Have you read AFFC? Have you observed how Tywin treats ppl, who don't do what he wants them to? tones of indication, that her life was in danger.

[James West]

It will be Arya, Cersei, Jaime, and Jon who will have dark fates.  Tyrion's has still not reached that fork in the road. 

[King17]

1 hour ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Cersei and Tywin were holding her and they wanted witnesses against Tyrion. Have you read AFFC? Have you observed how Tywin treats ppl, who don't do what he wants them to? tones of indication, that her life was in danger.

Yes and as I recall Cersei threatened to take away her jewelry she didn't threaten her physical claiming she did so is just speculation on your part.

 

[Nagini's Neville]

17 hours ago, King17 said:

2 killing shae may be wrong but in tyrions case I think one can understand why he did it 

I'll never understand a murder of someone (or even to hurt someone), that you don't have to kill to protect yourself or others from. Tyrion had no benefit from killing Shae.

[Nagini's Neville]

13 hours ago, King17 said:

Yes and as I recall Cersei threatened to take away her jewelry she didn't threaten her physical claiming she did so is just speculation on your part.

That is Cersei's pov however. We don't know what she would have done to Shae, if she hadn't complied. Fact still remains, that she was a completely powerless person, who's life was not important at all among lions, who could do with her whatever they wanted. Angering them would have been a huge risk.

[Springwatch]

On 4/25/2020 at 2:29 AM, King17 said:

Yes and as I recall Cersei threatened to take away her jewelry she didn't threaten her physical claiming she did so is just speculation on your part.

Tyrion's opinion: He wondered what Cersei had promised her. You will get the gold or jewels, whatever it was you asked for, he thought as he watched her back recede, but before the moon has turned she'll have you entertaining the gold cloaks in their barracks.

He knows his sister pretty well.

[King17]

1 hour ago, Springwatch said:

Tyrion's opinion: He wondered what Cersei had promised her. You will get the gold or jewels, whatever it was you asked for, he thought as he watched her back recede, but before the moon has turned she'll have you entertaining the gold cloaks in their barracks.

He knows his sister pretty well.

 Sob I was right Cersei promised her the jewels as far as we know Cersei never threatened her.

[Springwatch]

40 minutes ago, King17 said:

 Sob I was right Cersei promised her the jewels

She definitely did, but in fact Cersei was worse than Tyrion's estimation, because she refused to pay up until Shae told her where Sansa Stark was hiding.

Anyway, Shae can be greedy and scared at the same time. Tyrion told her often enough her life was in danger in KL.

[redwolf@winterhell]

I think Tyrion was justified is killing Shae.  She betrayed him and slept with his dad! Though maybe she was raped. But after everything that Tyrion has been through, Tysha, his mom, Sansa, his dad, his sister, his horrid nephew, and the cruelty of the rest of the people. That is enough to make someone go insane, I would've gone insane. Tyrion is strong, though, so I hope he'll fight through it and find the love of his life. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but Tyrion's character arc is about acceptance, and love. When he was growing up, the only person to treat him like a human was Jaime, and their relationship wasn't as happy as in the tv series. His own sister and father treated him like he was a monster that the gods had sent to atone for their sins. He grew up without a mother, whom he was blamed for her death. But he still remained hopeful that a beautiful maiden would love him for him, and not the monster that everyone thinks he is. When he was 13, he thought he found that, but she was paid. Then his sweet ol' dad found out, and forced him to watch as she was raped a hundred times, after that he was forced to rape her....when he was 13! After that horrifying event, he began to drown his sorrows in wine and whores. Then he met Shae, and he began to hope again, that someone could love him, the imp. Well, we all know how that ended, with him brutally killing her, then his father. But a little before that, he married, and think what you think, but I say he began to have feelings for Sansa. Then she ran, he was arrested and charged for killing King Turd and almost executed. The night before his execution, he was freed by his loving brother. Oh, wait, never mind! His "loving" brother actually told him that he had been lied to for 13 years! That the first woman he loved, had in fact, not been a whore! And that he let 100 men rape his wife, and actually raped her himself. He was sssoooo happy! NOT He was heartbroken, and he killed Shae and his father. Then he went off to go on a drink fest and rape a few more people. The one person who he had truly trusted, his brother, the person he would do anything for, had betrayed him. That is the saddest story in game of thrones, and that is saying something. What Tyrion has done is not good and I'm not defending him, it's just that....Tyrion deserves some love and I do NOT agree with the people who say that Shae didn't deserve it cause she did. Hey, but as I said earlier, maybe she was raped because that would really change the story.

[Nagini's Neville]

On 2. Mai 2020 at 5:35 PM, redwolf@winterhell said:

I think Tyrion was justified is killing Shae.  She betrayed him and slept with his dad! Though maybe she was raped. But after everything that Tyrion has been through, Tysha, his mom, Sansa, his dad, his sister, his horrid nephew, and the cruelty of the rest of the people. That is enough to make someone go insane, I would've gone insane. Tyrion is strong, though, so I hope he'll fight through it and find the love of his life. I know a lot of people will disagree with me, but Tyrion's character arc is about acceptance, and love. When he was growing up, the only person to treat him like a human was Jaime, and their relationship wasn't as happy as in the tv series. His own sister and father treated him like he was a monster that the gods had sent to atone for their sins. He grew up without a mother, whom he was blamed for her death. But he still remained hopeful that a beautiful maiden would love him for him, and not the monster that everyone thinks he is. When he was 13, he thought he found that, but she was paid. Then his sweet ol' dad found out, and forced him to watch as she was raped a hundred times, after that he was forced to rape her....when he was 13! After that horrifying event, he began to drown his sorrows in wine and whores. Then he met Shae, and he began to hope again, that someone could love him, the imp. Well, we all know how that ended, with him brutally killing her, then his father. But a little before that, he married, and think what you think, but I say he began to have feelings for Sansa. Then she ran, he was arrested and charged for killing King Turd and almost executed. The night before his execution, he was freed by his loving brother. Oh, wait, never mind! His "loving" brother actually told him that he had been lied to for 13 years! That the first woman he loved, had in fact, not been a whore! And that he let 100 men rape his wife, and actually raped her himself. He was sssoooo happy! NOT He was heartbroken, and he killed Shae and his father. Then he went off to go on a drink fest and rape a few more people. The one person who he had truly trusted, his brother, the person he would do anything for, had betrayed him. That is the saddest story in game of thrones, and that is saying something. What Tyrion has done is not good and I'm not defending him, it's just that....Tyrion deserves some love and I do NOT agree with the people who say that Shae didn't deserve it cause she did. Hey, but as I said earlier, maybe she was raped because that would really change the story.

You know, that Shae was a prostitute and not his lover, right? They sleep with different clients for money, that's their job. That's how they stay alive, not everyone is born with a golden spoon in their mouth like a Lannister. Honest transaction nothing more.