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US Politics: To Open or Not To Open, That's the Question


Tywin Manderly

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I'm happy to make any number of stupid bets about Clinton becoming the VP. It's not going to happen. Full stop.

It's going to be Klobuchar, Harris, or Duckworth probably. Or maybe some lesser known woman politician. It probably won't be Whitmer, and it definitely won't be Abrams or Warren. And it absolutely will not be Clinton. What the fuck are people smoking; thinking it might be Clinton? It won't be Clinton.

Could Clinton end up being SecState again in a Biden administration? Yeah, maybe. If she's interested. But she won't be VP. 

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3 minutes ago, DMC said:

Let's say the Dems nominated someone awesome instead of Joe Fucking Biden.  Would I care if she "mended the fences" between Sanders 2016 and today?  Would you?  I don't get this standard.  Why should any candidate have to account for what happened in the previous cycle?  It seems ludicrous on its face.  This reflects a sense of entitlement on behalf of certain constituents that is simply not relevant to any two-party system.

What the fuck am I thinking I'm entitled to? I hope that people who aspire to lead a party and a country want to do the best for that party and country. I'm not sitting here and bitching her out, I gave her credit for mostly getting out of the way compared to him.

I'm just wishing they'd somehow mended fences. Like seriously, how the fuck are you getting pissy at that statement? 

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6 minutes ago, Fez said:

It's going to be Klobuchar, Harris, or Duckworth probably. Or maybe some lesser known woman politician. 

I think Harris could have been a more obvious pick if she'd maintained any level of traction into the primary voting actually taking place. I thought she'd have issues with support from certain groups, but I'm still shocked by how badly her support dropped off. 

That said she certainly would hope to have other opportunities and likely views the whole thing as an exercise in raising her profile, and from the tone of a video I saw from her yesterday she certainly didn't sound like she'd view working alongside him as a bad thing for her future. I want to say she'd be a better pick than Klobuchar but I clearly have no fucking clue what appeals to American voters lol.

At this point I think I'm expecting one of the other, non-obvious women to get the nod. None of others who tried to run in the primary got enough support there to think they'd have much of a positive impact on the ticket.

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15 minutes ago, Fez said:

I'm happy to make any number of stupid bets about Clinton becoming the VP. It's not going to happen. Full stop.

It's going to be Klobuchar, Harris, or Duckworth probably. Or maybe some lesser known woman politician. It probably won't be Whitmer, and it definitely won't be Abrams or Warren. And it absolutely will not be Clinton. What the fuck are people smoking; thinking it might be Clinton? It won't be Clinton.

Could Clinton end up being SecState again in a Biden administration? Yeah, maybe. If she's interested. But she won't be VP. 

How does Amy make more sense than Whitmer?

I'd also bet that Cuomo would be SoS before Clinton. 

How do we gamble on all of this? I'm bored. 

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1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

How does Amy make more sense than Whitmer?

I'd also gamble that Cuomo would be SoS before Clinton. 

How do we gamble on all of this? I'm bored. 

Governor is a better job than Senator. Especially in a big state like Michigan. If I were a senator, unless I was a caucus leader, I'd leap at the chance to be VP. I'm not sure I would as a governor.

But beyond that, Whitmer has a pretty big red flag around that no-bid contract for COVID-19 contact tracing. There might not be any meat there, but it feels like the kind of thing that Republicans, and the media, would turn into a really big deal.

Cuomo is going to stay as governor of New York until voters throw him out. And in today's partisan age, that might never happen. 

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2 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I'm just wishing they'd somehow mended fences. Like seriously, how the fuck are you getting pissy at that statement? 

This is my issue with "what the fuck you think your entitled to."  The rest of the Democratic party must go out of its way to acquiesce, entertain, or mollify a bunch of supporters of a guy that lost?  Twice?  Those supporters, btw, mostly are fine supporting Biden and the vast majority of this is just amplified on the internet.  Did Obama "reach out" to the angry Hillary-McCain voters in an effort to "mend fences" in 2008?  Nope.  Is this election a shitload more important than that one - which was pretty fucking important with the onset of the GFC?  Yep.  So, that's why I'm "getting all pissy."  Will Sanders supporters ever grow up?

On the VP, Klobuchar would be a disaster.  Please no.  It'd be interesting if he announced a whole cabinet though.  Like an opposition government.  I think I mentioned this a while ago, but I still think it's an interesting idea.  Announce Warren as your Treasury Sec.  Someone else favorable as your SoS.  Problem is when you get to the Pentagon and DOJ.  Those choices are going to be fundamentally opposed by the left, so maybe not the best message.

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1 hour ago, The Great Unwashed said:

There are at least 20 fucking people in the briefing room that Trump is holding his press conference in, with people practically standing on top of one another, and I've only seen one wearing a mask. FFS

How deathcultchief Does His No Mask No Risk to HIMselfiewelfy Pressers:

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/04/trumps-coronavirus-briefings-should-be-seen-in-full.html

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16 hours ago, Martell Spy said:

Justin Amash announces presidential exploratory committee

https://www.cnn.com/2020/04/28/politics/justin-amash-exploratory-committee/index.html

 

Welcome back to Jeopardy. Our Final Category is.

Political news of great irrelevance.

Here's the question.

On the 28th of April 2020 this independent congressman announced his intention to possibly run for President.

Sorry, couldn't resist. But really Amash announcing he'd be running a third party campaign, I'd rather have an entire thread about Ty's J-date adventure on campus. At least those stories have a marginal chance of a happy ending for the protagonist. :leaving:

Also.

Why on earth are people still musing on the idea of HRC being Biden's running mate? It makes no sense, it's crazy talk. It's also not going to be Duckworth.

Whitmer is a candidate, but I'd still go with a woman of colour. If you want a crazy outside name that makes more sense than HRC, Anita Hill. She has no goverment experience, but she'd still make more sense than HRC.

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13 minutes ago, karaddin said:

I think Harris could have been a more obvious pick if she'd maintained any level of traction into the primary voting actually taking place. I thought she'd have issues with support from certain groups, but I'm still shocked by how badly her support dropped off.

Well her support dropped in Oct-November, which is why she dropped out in December.  So we never got to see what traction she'd get with actual voters, because she wasn't running when voting took place.  In terms of "what went wrong", it seemed like a combination of a poorly run campaign that burned through cash and her attempt at being a "just right" liberal that was to the center of Warren/Sanders and to the left of Biden meant she didn't have much of a constituency, even though she was a LOT of people's second or third choice.

But being everybody's second or third choice actually is a pretty useful skill for a VP.  She won't excite the left, but she's at least left of Biden or Klobuchar.  And she is a good choice to lead "the next generation of Democrats".

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7 minutes ago, Fez said:

Governor is a better job than Senator. Especially in a big state like Michigan. If I were a senator, unless I was a caucus leader, I'd leap at the chance to be VP. I'm not sure I would as a governor.

But beyond that, Whitmer has a pretty big red flag around that no-bid contract for COVID-19 contact tracing. There might not be any meat there, but it feels like the kind of thing that Republicans, and the media, would turn into a really big deal.

Cuomo is going to stay as governor of New York until voters throw him out. And in today's partisan age, that might never happen. 

So?

VP in these times, with an old man as the figurehead, is better. Whitmer's shortcomings are so minor, relatively speaking. I wouldn't stress about them. 

And why wouldn't Cuomo take the leap from Governor of NY to Secretary of State? I would, 100% of the time.  

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Secretary of State is a much less important job than governor of New York.  Maybe back in the 60s or something when SecState had some real influence, but as it is now, SecState is a glorified middle manager.

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3 minutes ago, DMC said:

This is my issue with "what the fuck you think your entitled to."  The rest of the Democratic party must go out of its way to acquiesce, entertain, or mollify a bunch of supporters of a guy that lost?  Twice?  Those supporters, btw, mostly are fine supporting Biden and the vast majority of this is just amplified on the internet.  Did Obama "reach out" to the angry Hillary-McCain voters in an effort to "mend fences" in 2008?  Nope.  Is this election a shitload more important than that one - which was pretty fucking important with the onset of the GFC?  Yep.  So, that's why I'm "getting all pissy."  Will Sanders supporters ever grow up?

Maybe try reading my posts again because I'm not a Bernie supporter and that entire conversation with Dante started with being frustrated that he even ran. The only reason I mentioned Clinton having won the primary was part of acknowledging that she HAS gotten out of the way a lot more than Bernie, the guy who clearly hasn't done so at all.

Given how many people you fight with you could try toning down the hostility. Neither Dante or I was even remotely heated or upset with each other.

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7 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said:

 

 

Why on earth are people still musing on the idea of HRC being Biden's running mate? It makes no sense, it's crazy talk. It's also not going to be Duckworth.

 

Because the commentariat of every group including evidently the majority of Dem party members are utter failures at thinking of anything and blathering beyond the dumbest stuff they always think and blather together about.

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@Maithanet fair point on her support never actually being tested, I had forgotten the finding issue. 

And as I said - she's got plenty of time, staying in longer and getting nowhere could make her look like a loser in a way dropping out early does not.

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5 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

Secretary of State is a much less important job than governor of New York.  Maybe back in the 60s or something when SecState had some real influence, but as it is now, SecState is a glorified middle manager.

People like claiming titles, Maith. If you accept you're not going to be president, SoS isn't so bad. And yes it is better than being a Governor of one of the premier states.

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1 minute ago, Tywin et al. said:

People like claiming titles, Maith. If you accept you're not going to be president, SoS isn't so bad. And yes it is better than being a Governor of one of the premier states.

But I saw an interview with his brother where he reassured his brother several times that he had no intention of running for the presidency and seemed to suggest he didn't have high ambitions. Surely you aren't telling me that he'd be lying about such matters?? His brother seemed very convinced by the answer which is why he asked it 5+ times like he was intending to use the interview to win an argument at family Christmas.

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3 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Given how many people you fight with you could try toning down the hostility. Neither Dante or I was even remotely heated or upset with each other.

I'm done apologizing.  You said something, I responded that I agree Hillary would be a horrible VP nominee then detailed why I thought responding to "Sanders supporters" wasn't necessarily electorally necessary.  Then, you responded that somehow that was a "pissy" response, while being quite "pissy" yourself, so I responded in kind.

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4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

People like claiming titles, Maith. If you accept you're not going to be president, SoS isn't so bad. And yes it is better than being a Governor of one of the premier states.

Saying it again doesn't make it true.  You can make an argument that Cuomo is the second most important man in America this past month.  Compare that to...whoever the hell the SecState is now. 

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4 minutes ago, DMC said:

I'm done apologizing.  You said something, I responded that I agree Hillary would be a horrible VP nominee then detailed why I thought responding to "Sanders supporters" wasn't necessarily electorally necessary.  Then, you responded that somehow that was a "pissy" response, while being quite "pissy" yourself, so I responded in kind.

If you weren't suggesting that I was one of the people being entitled and were just talking about behavior you've seen from others then I misinterpreted your post, as that seems like a bit of a segue from what I was talking about. If that's the case then I apologise, I certainly was pissy and I don't need to put quotes around it to admit that, because it seemed like you were attacking me for holding basically the opposite position of what I'd just been saying.

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