Rothfuss XVI: Books? What books?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

2 minutes ago, Kyll.Ing. said:

You're comparing those alternative outcomes to the book itself. Of course I would prefer the book to be released too.

But if the book is not an option, at least an RPG handbook or whatever to let us know what happened would be something. It wouldn't be the thing, but as an alternative to total silence forever, I think it's the preferable option. If Rothfuss can't and won't ever get the book finished, I wouldn't mind if we at least got a plot summary through other media. The alternative would be to never hear anything again.

I strongly disagree.  I'd rather just imagine "Day Three" than have a summary that says, "Kvothe expelled from the University for defrauding Maer Alveron, gets into a fight with Sim and kills him before leaving Imre, goes to Raelian has adventures ends up killing the King of Vintas allowing the Maer (or Ambrose) to inherit the throne, steals the Leoclose box and releases horrors onto the Four Corners by opening "the Doors of Stone", fakes his death, buys Inn.

Without the prose to flesh out the outline this is like feeding a hummingbird saccharine.  It has no substance without the prose behind it to give the story form.

No.

[Vaughn]

2 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

At least George is working on TWOW.

Assumes facts not in evidence, your honor.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

3 minutes ago, Vaughn said:

Assumes facts not in evidence, your honor.

Alright, George never claimed to have TWOW done.

[Proudfeet]

2 hours ago, john said:

Well if we’re taking him at his word, he steals through necessity from those who can afford it, cheats those who deserve it and intimidates his worst enemy that’s literally trying to kill him. Still a pretty good impression he’s giving of himself.

And yes, stealing, lying and tricking are often a shortcut for cleverness in fantasy settings.

Necessity is debatable and I don't recall him showing any remorse. I highly disagree that the bookstore owner he pawned his book to deserved to be cheated. Sure, the owner started it first, but he had grounds to distrust Kvothe while Kvothe abuses his trust. Neither do I think his cheating the Maer on his tuition deserving even if they have fallen out and it is a rounding error for his wealth. Its a matter of trust. And of course actual cheating in tests may not make him a dick but it reflects poorly on him.

I don't mean intimidate Ambrose. I do think that just the continued escalation of their quarrels qualify both of them jackasses, but I meant the villagers in the country. I think he burned a coin to scare an innkeeper to do what he wanted? Put it another way. Out of all the other characters, how many would you rank worse than Kvothe? Just Bast, Ambrose and the actual thieves and murderers who are more villain of the day than characters? And Bast is amoral so he has a semi useful excuse.

I greatly detest the notion that protagonist deserves things. It might be clever but other people are people as well. Not just tools and plot devices and their actions should not be waved away as justified or necessary.

Edit -

I think that at this rate, I have better faith that we get A Dream of Spring before Doors of Stone. 

[john]

16 minutes ago, Proudfeet said:

I greatly detest the notion that protagonist deserves things. It might be clever but other people are people as well. Not just tools and plot devices and their actions should not be waved away as justified or necessary.

Deserved is actually a better word than justified or necessary, imo. Kvothe is traumatised and abused most of his life and through his own abilities he gets the better of people who should have treated him better in the first place. It’s a line the author has to walk and I think he gets it right more often than not. The only time I thought it was egregiously dumb was when he showed that barmaid that thought he wouldn’t be much good at sex that he was actually wicked good at sex.

Plus he’s like fifteen. It’s normal to overlook childish, foolish things that fifteen year olds do, especially when they’re spending most of their time breaking academic records, inventing revolutionary stuff, saving people’s lives. I mean that’s the ridiculous part of the book, that he’s so good at everything. Not that he’s secretly a villain.

[HexMachina]

3 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I’m not sure about... that.

Oh to have been a fly on the wall when you first watch that

 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

11 minutes ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

The first paragraph is pure gold

And I agree with the second paragraph 100%. I don't play video games.

Thank you.  

[lady narcissa]

4 hours ago, williamjm said:

I think we might finally have found something that annoys him more than Denothor's plotline and the army of the dead in Peter Jackson's Return of the King.

But does it annoy him more than Daylight Savings Time?

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

5 minutes ago, lady narcissa said:

But does it annoy him more than Daylight Savings Time?

-- Film Denethor advocates for Daylight Savings Time while the scubbing bubbles of death clear out Minas Tirith and Pat Rothfuss performs his baloney and dildo wielding performance art finish to the King Killer Chronicles at the base of the King's Citadel --

:RIP Ser Scot A Ellison due to multiple simultaneously occurring brain aneurysms :

[Proudfeet]

1 hour ago, john said:

Deserved is actually a better word than justified or necessary, imo. Kvothe is traumatised and abused most of his life and through his own abilities he gets the better of people who should have treated him better in the first place. It’s a line the author has to walk and I think he gets it right more often than not. The only time I thought it was egregiously dumb was when he showed that barmaid that thought he wouldn’t be much good at sex that he was actually wicked good at sex.

Plus he’s like fifteen. It’s normal to overlook childish, foolish things that fifteen year olds do, especially when they’re spending most of their time breaking academic records, inventing revolutionary stuff, saving people’s lives. I mean that’s the ridiculous part of the book, that he’s so good at everything. Not that he’s secretly a villain.

I think all three words gets the general sentiment across. Anyway, I think you're excusing too much of his actions and he's also an active participant in exacerbating it. And it's not just those things I listed. Those are just the things that made the strongest impression. 

The age thing is important. Kote gives off a much better impression than Kvothe and its the contrast that really cements my negative impression of Kvothe. Kote is what Kvothe (and I think Rothfuss as well) strives to be but he isn't. Yet.

[HexMachina]

1 hour ago, Chataya de Fleury said:

@Ser Scot A Ellison - Daylight SAVING time; if you're going to hate it, please hate it properly.

~signed, your friend, Stannis Baratheon

“A lie, take it out”

[Inkdaub]

9 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

-- Film Denethor advocates for Daylight Savings Time while the scubbing bubbles of death clear out Minas Tirith and Pat Rothfuss performs his baloney and dildo wielding performance art finish to the King Killer Chronicles at the base of the King's Citadel --

-- all parties arriving a couple minutes late --

[Fury Resurrected]

10 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

-- Film Denethor advocates for Daylight Savings Time while the scubbing bubbles of death clear out Minas Tirith and Pat Rothfuss performs his baloney and dildo wielding performance art finish to the King Killer Chronicles at the base of the King's Citadel --

:RIP Ser Scot A Ellison due to multiple simultaneously occurring brain aneurysms :

This new edgy Scot is magnificent

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

8 hours ago, Fury Resurrected said:

This new edgy Scot is magnificent

I’m not “edgy”.  Just really irritated.

[Jace, Extat]

4 hours ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I’m not “edgy”.  Just really irritated.

Take your lawyer weapon! Strike him down and your journey towards the dark side will be complete!

[lysmonger]

On 8/4/2020 at 8:11 AM, Werthead said:

No-one, I'm guessing. It seems to be less of a thing in the USA where publishers will sometimes pick up the film and TV rights from the author along with the print rights (it doesn't happen often, as usually the author can charge a lot more money for that), so Rothfuss probably just started looking through the offers that came through when - or, based on the pre-release hype, long before - the book was published and picked the one that had the best mix of money, track record and how much involvement he'd have in the process. Lionsgate offering money for both TV and film, and letting him work on the project, just appealed the most.

Ah- Ha!!! Fool to him. He probably tried giving a very rough draft of a pilot episode 3 months late and all of the network ceo types eyeballed at him. 

Just from my observations of Rothfuss, I feel like many of the hollywood types would find him  to be a nuisance to deal with. 

There being no person to babysit speak for him at these creative discussions with these network execs doomed him from the beginning. 

[lysmonger]

On 8/4/2020 at 7:09 AM, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no... a million million times NO!  

I appreciate that he is an artist and that art is difficult.  I have maintained for more than a dacade that well made art is difficult and space should be allowed for the artist to create.  If and when book 3 of KKC is released I will buy it and read it happily.

However, in the event the artist decides to complete their serialized novel as an interpretive dance performed before their class at the University of Wisconsin or placing baloney on his head while holding dildos in either hand screaming about Telhu’s justice on the steps of the United States Supreme Court as performance art I would find that rather less satisfying than an actual completed narrative.

I don’t play video games or RPG’s (well I haven’t played an RPG or video game in a bit more than 20 years (and I’ve never played and don’t care to play a MMORPG)).  Changing media to “complete” a serialized novel is a really shitty thing to do to the serialized novels readers not to mention the publisher to whom the author made a contractual commitment (supported by consideration in the form of an “advance”) to finish the serialized novel.

I would hope that the publisher would sue the crap out of the author in such a circumstance.  

So, no, in my earnest opinion, I (and many others I suspect) would not find an “alternative” way to “complete” the narrative satisfying in any way.  I read Rothfuss’ work for the wonderful prose (I’ve told him that in person).  

An RPG, a video game, an interpretive dance, or a piece of performance art all lack the one thing we want from Mr. Rothfuss, the prose we enjoy so much.  As such alternative means of “completing the narrative” that all lack that key ingredient would be wholly and completely unsatisfactory.

I would much rather Mr. Rothfuss humbly announce he’s decided to dedicate his life to working on charitable causes and doesn’t care to complete KKC now, or (perhaps) ever.

This is why I feel like both George RR Martins and Rothfuss's works would be best presented serialized in magazines for first. If anything it gives a  feeling of finalty, but also alleviates pressure with here's "4 more chapters ."

[Proudfeet]

2 hours ago, lysmonger said:

This is why I feel like both George RR Martins and Rothfuss's works would be best presented serialized in magazines for first. If anything it gives a  feeling of finalty, but also alleviates pressure with here's "4 more chapters ."

Nah. George has rewritten large chunks of his books. I think first when he decided that he didn't want a time skip and then again when he couldn't resolve the Meereenese knot. It's not a linear process.

[Vaughn]

On 8/4/2020 at 11:21 AM, Proudfeet said:

Out of all the other characters, how many would you rank worse than Kvothe? Just Bast, Ambrose and the actual thieves and murderers who are more villain of the day than characters? And Bast is amoral so he has a semi useful excuse.

You've already tidily dismissed worse characters as not counting as being 'villain of the day' but of the top of my head

The Chandrian

Ctaeh (sp?)

Hemme

Brandeur (minor but completely complicit in Hemme's actions)

Meulan

Carcaret

[trolling] Denna

Bredon [if theories of his identity bear out]

He's far from purely good but it's weird how stuff like helping Tarpis feed homeless kids, defeating the bandits in the woods, saving the girls from the fake Ruh, etc... are all just dismissed as nothing but you're drilling down on if he cheated a book seller to divine his true villainous nature.

 

 

[Proudfeet]

46 minutes ago, Vaughn said:

You've already tidily dismissed worse characters as not counting as being 'villain of the day' but of the top of my head

The Chandrian

Ctaeh (sp?)

Hemme

Brandeur (minor but completely complicit in Hemme's actions)

Meulan

Carcaret

[trolling] Denna

Bredon [if theories of his identity bear out]

He's far from purely good but it's weird how stuff like helping Tarpis feed homeless kids, defeating the bandits in the woods, saving the girls from the fake Ruh, etc... are all just dismissed as nothing but you're drilling down on if he cheated a book seller to divine his true villainous nature.

 

 

Chandrian = Doesn't show up enough. I can give you Cinder. What about Lanre or what his name was after he turned.

Chteah = Doesn't show up enough.

Hemme = Forgot about him. Sure.

Brandeur = Doesn't show up enough. Just being a toady doesn't make him an asshole. Coward maybe.

Meluan = Has bias typical of everyone in the country. Multiplied by losing her sister to a Ruh. This is exactly what I mean with the protagonist deserves better. Also, I'm pretty sure the exchange went both ways. So at worst she's even with Kvothe.

Carcaret = I genuinely don't remember. Was she just stuck in the mud about Adem culture or actually malicious? I can't recall.

Denna = Manipulative, yes. Worse? Probably. Not quite in the same vein though.

Bredon = Same with Denna.

 

Helping Tarpis feed kids = Nice.

Defeating bandits = He was tasked to do so.

Fake Ruh = Was getting vengeance or saving the girls the priority again? 

Anyway, I'm not the one dismissing his good deeds as nothing. Quote me. You defenders are the one dismissing his bad actions as nothing. Because he does x good deed, everything else doesn't count. You're doing it again by the way. And I gave one example amongst others. That's drilling down? And I'm not calling him a villain yet. That's Scot. I'm calling him an asshole, jackass, dick, etc. 

Also, just because you mean well, doesn't mean you behave well. They don't come in a set. Good grief.