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COVID-19 #13 or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Disease


Mr. Chatywin et al.

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3 hours ago, JoannaL said:

why is not everyone infected in a household if it is so infectious?

This is something I'd really like to know. I've heard anecdotes of whole households infected (down to the cat and the dog) and others that one or two family members are infected, sometimes even skipping the grandmother, but more often the children.  Is there someone really looking at this? It might be the key to fight the disease.

3 hours ago, JoannaL said:

There was this other interesting study about background immunity, showing that antibodies for other coronaviruses react similar.

Well, this is very interesting. Maybe all what we need is to get a cold a few times a year. ;-)

3 hours ago, JoannaL said:

Perhaps children are more likely to have had the common cold more often in the past 1 or 2 years and are a little bit protected (this is only my reasoning no source )

 

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While we are throwing studies/theories around, I thought this one was pretty interesting. 

If you can't be bothered reading, the nutshell is: older people are more susceptible to SARS-CoV-2/COVID-19 because their bodies learned an "incorrect" response to the virus at an earlier stage of life. 

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so Merkel met the state governors today and she is just presenting the results:

more or less : this is it ! in the next few weeks we will slowly end the lock-down (small differences between states)

then we will have a management similar to Sweden (social distancing, no big events) but with face masks

and a regional county -wide new lock-down mechanism:

if a county has more than 50 new cases/100.000 people (avarage over 7 days, so about 7 a day) it goes automatically in lock-down again

 

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16 hours ago, Ran said:

People who work with others, people who use public transport, etc. 

Besides the fact that children's immune systems may be just very good at tackling this, children also are less likely to transmit it because they displace less air with their coughs, and with less force, so droplet transmission would be reduced.  There's this whole thing in pediatrics about how children don't necessarily cough in situations that would make adults cough, as well, and so far most kids who have been tested as having it seem to not cough or barely cough and so on.

Ok fine. Children are less susceptible, we still need to find out why.  But what about high schoolers? What about university students? Are they really social distancing in their classes, accommodations, parties, etc? Where are the outbreaks? Who are those 20% of infected in Sweden? Random people or some particular segments of the society?

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I’ll throw in another theory here.

Covid-19 creates inflammation in the body, particularly attacking blood cells. I don’t have a science background, excuse me if I use the wrong terminology here. As a result, we are seeing blood clots and strokes and damage to many organs. I have repeatedly seen doctors comment that we are still missing vital information about the mechanics of the way it attacks the body and blood cells in particular.

eta: I was struck by an interview with a surgeon who was operating on a patient (with Covid-19) who had a blood clot in his brain, who said as he removed the blood clot he watched more clots form before his eyes, something he had never seen before.

Your body deteriorates with age, the walls of blood vessels weaken. Children have strong, yes, young, blood cells, so the virus doesn’t get in. As we age our blood cells get weaker and the virus has greater and greater success, and so the deaths rise with age.
 

I am going to be fascinated with the reports on how the virus works that are going to come rolling out over the next few years, if, by God’s grace, I manage to survive that long. As someone who has battled with weight problems for years (fortunately almost entirely with being overweight and avoiding becoming obese) I have constantly read about issues with inflammation, and the links to sugar and carbs. It will be interesting to see if there’s a link made between obesity and inflammation and the virus, since obesity seems to be an important risk factor.

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My locality had a nice couple-week stretch where more and more people were wearing masks to the stores, coming together with online faith stuff on Sunday mornings, E-Proms and all that. The first few weeks of shutdown had stunning weather, which may have helped distract people. Then it was cold and rainy for awhile, so it was easier in a way to stay in and safe. 

Now it's really nice again, and my town seems to have wholly discarded any adherence to world-recommended responses. Our town's facebook group is generally a very polite place full of lost-dog posts, links to new businesses, reunions, that sort of thing. There are a handful of useful posts shared there daily, like local statistics and town hall reports. By exponential numbers, any post mentioning "We need to get back" is overwhelmingly flooded with support. Today one came up literally mocking mask-wearers, and like forty people had commented on it before it an admin removed it. 

Someone I know in the restaurant world put a joke up on their wall about opening their joint for a private party, and a good eight or ten people I consider friends all responded positively. One said "Just no pictures guys". 

I think that if vomit-spewing, pus-leaking zombies were shuffling down the streets due to a virus, millions of Muricans would still not wear a simple goddamn mask to buy their White Claws and frozen pizzas. 

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5 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

I’ll throw in another theory here.

Covid-19 creates inflammation in the body, particularly attacking blood cells. I don’t have a science background, excuse me if I use the wrong terminology here. As a result, we are seeing blood clots and strokes and damage to many organs. I have repeatedly seen doctors comment that we are still missing vital information about the mechanics of the way it attacks the body and blood cells in particular.

eta: I was struck by an interview with a surgeon who was operating on a patient (with Covid-19) who had a blood clot in his brain, who said as he removed the blood clot he watched more clots form before his eyes, something he had never seen before.

Your body deteriorates with age, the walls of blood vessels weaken. Children have strong, yes, young, blood cells, so the virus doesn’t get in. As we age our blood cells get weaker and the virus has greater and greater success, and so the deaths rise with age.
 

I am going to be fascinated with the reports on how the virus works that are going to come rolling out over the next few years, if, by God’s grace, I manage to survive that long. As someone who has battled with weight problems for years (fortunately almost entirely with being overweight and avoiding becoming obese) I have constantly read about issues with inflammation, and the links to sugar and carbs. It will be interesting to see if there’s a link made between obesity and inflammation and the virus, since obesity seems to be an important risk factor.

We don’t fully understand why inflammation disorders lead to blood clots. It’s common with lupus (a major issue with me, I get small blood clots that burst in my legs so I always have a few bruises and I have to measure my legs to check for dvts). It was explained to me as having proteins in the blood that cause more clotting, not anything attacking blood vessels themselves or blood cells. I would imagine the Covid 19 problems to be similar or the same. I also think that’s why you have the stupid Dr Oz anecdotal people with lupus don’t get it thing, because a lot of what is described are already things lupus patients experience every day. Also with our shitty immune systems, we are much more careful.

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26 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

615 deaths in Brazil. Only surprise is how long it took to get to the higher end of the daily deaths totals with that fuckwit in charge. 

Because most governors and many government officials tried to do their best to avoid the worst. Without the support it is of course not enough

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1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

615 deaths in Brazil. Only surprise is how long it took to get to the higher end of the daily deaths totals with that fuckwit in charge. 

Much like here, the official figures are simply wrong - very wrong; whilst more local concerns did things without being told to by the government.

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I was reading about the French guy doctors now say was treated for Covid-19 back in December, when they first thought it was just pneumonia. Neither he nor his family did any travelling. They are guessing his wife had it and gave it to him, while being asymptomatic. She worked in a supermarket, near the airport., and may have been exposed to Chinese tourists or travellers who had been in China.

Quote

The doctors had originally collected the samples to test for the flu using a polymerase chain reaction test — the same test used to detect the new coronavirus — which searches for bits of viral genetic material. 

The patient, a 43-year-old man from Bobigny, likely became infected sometime between Dec. 14 and Dec. 22, according to the BBC. He presented to the hospital with a dry cough, a fever and trouble breathing on Dec. 27. 

 

He was sick for 15 days and had infected his two children, but not his wife, Dr. Yves Cohen, the head of resuscitation at the Avicenne and Jean Verdier hospitals in Paris told France's BFM TV on May 3. It's too early to know whether or not this patient was France's "patient zero," he added. 

 

The patient's wife worked at a supermarket near Charles de Gaulle airport and could have come in contact with those arriving from China, according to the BBC. It's possible that the  patient's wife had been infected first, perhaps asymptomatically, Cohen said. “All the negative PCRs for pneumonia must be tested again," Cohen said. "The virus was probably circulating.”

https://www.livescience.com/coronavirus-france-patient-zero-december.html

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1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

615 deaths in Brazil. Only surprise is how long it took to get to the higher end of the daily deaths totals with that fuckwit in charge. 

I'm not too surprised because I sadly suspect the official figures are much higher and have been for some time. I guess what's more surprising is that we have these higher figures at all

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1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

I was reading about the French guy doctors now say was treated for Covid-19 back in December, when they first thought it was just pneumonia. Neither he nor his family did any travelling. They are guessing his wife had it and gave it to him, while being asymptomatic. She worked in a supermarket, near the airport., and may have been exposed to Chinese tourists or travellers who had been in China.

This is the original article if people are interested. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0924857920301643

Besides being tested twice, the patient had all landmarks of a typical COVID19 case.

The question remains. Why didn't he (or his wife and children) start an outbreak back then in December in France? At their respective very public  work places, children's schools or even the hospital. Precautions were little to non existent. Or an outbreak was actually started and wasn't detected till late February? How? It goes against everything we know about the disease now.

Now, German researchers are also saying they have evidence of SARS-COV2 spreading late last year in Europe. I cannot find the article now.

Is this actually possible? I'm at lost.

 

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37 minutes ago, Filippa Eilhart said:

I remember reading that doctors in Italy retroactively thought they must have had cases in November...

A number of my direct co-workers had the "flu" with breathing problems earlier this year. It was the worst "flu" they ever had according to them and at least one of them has reduced oxygen saturation now.

I have always practiced social distancing with certain co-workers after one told me years ago the diseases come from god and there is no point in avoiding sick people. I even got my boss to install hand disinfectant stations after that because a lot of people at my workplace show up sick for a day or two to demonstrate that they are really sick before going on sick leave.

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1 hour ago, rotting sea cow said:

 

Now, German researchers are also saying they have evidence of SARS-COV2 spreading late last year in Europe. I cannot find the article now.

Is this actually possible? I'm at lost.

 

FWIW, a number of Swedish military personnel went to some sort of military athletic games in Wuhan in October, and a bunch of them came back sick in November. All were tested with very early testing, and one was borderline positive -- it's quite likely that the quality of the test available in November was at issue, because the symptoms all fit. I believe they were all isolated until well and nothing came of that. Google shows some reporting that the French delegation to the same athletic event also believe they had a suspicious illness, but not sure if there has been any follow up on that.

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24 minutes ago, Ran said:

FWIW, a number of Swedish military personnel went to some sort of military athletic games in Wuhan in October, and a bunch of them came back sick in November. All were tested with very early testing, and one was borderline positive -- it's quite likely that the quality of the test available in November was at issue, because the symptoms all fit. I believe they were all isolated until well and nothing came of that. Google shows some reporting that the French delegation to the same athletic event also believe they had a suspicious illness, but not sure if there has been any follow up on that.

There was no test for SARS-CoV-2 in November of last year.  No one even knew this disease existed back then, and the sequence of the virus was released in early January, which means that the earliest PCR based tests would have been possible around mid January 2020, at the earliest.  If they were actually tested in November, it would have been for something like influenza.  If the samples from November still exist, it would be easy to test them again with a high quality PCR test.  A lot of countries are retesting early samples from patients that had pneumonia and tested negative for common forms of pneumonia, like influenza.

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6 hours ago, Ran said:

FWIW, a number of Swedish military personnel went to some sort of military athletic games in Wuhan in October, and a bunch of them came back sick in November.

The Chinese insist that the disease was brought to Wuhan by foreign delegations, maybe we should start listening to them. @The Anti-Targ was reporting that he got info that something was going on in Iran also back in November. And the Internet is full od reports of weird flu-like illness in December. 

But if this is the case, it goes against all we know about the covid-19 we are observing now.  Maybe some close related diseases? Maybe is that the reason why there are many who are seemingly immune?

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8 hours ago, Mudguard said:

There was no test for SARS-CoV-2 in November of last year.

This is what I get for skimming articles. You're quite right.

It seems they weren't diagnosed with anything in particular in November, and it was just one of those things. Five of them were tested for antibodies in April, and one was positive, and the doctor in the region who ordered the tests actually said he thought that was probably just someone who got infected in March and doubted the theory, but allowed for the fact that the antibody test was new and there was a chance of false negatives. Four of five being false negatives seems highly unlikely in even some of the less specific tests, however.

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