Fragile Bird Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 1 minute ago, Paxter said: Yeah I get the same feeling. I don’t think that’s necessarily a bad thing if you have a world class test and trace system. But we don’t have anything close to that. I’m pretty sure Toronto is not even bothering tracing contacts now - you’re just expected to contact your friends yourself. Actually they suspended contact tracing to concentrate on the most urgent cases, because they were getting overwhelmed. Toronto just announced today that they are back to full contact tracing again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 US and UK figures messing with Canadian, US and UK political parties. I didn't know any of this. One thing about covid-19, I'm finally learning more about what I should already know in terms of Canadian politics and history. (Also what a mess the US was in terms of 'helping' with WWI -- thanks to that idiot, Woodrow Wilson and his southern Dem backers.) https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/05/lockdown-nigel-farage-new-enemy-us-election-covid-19 Quote https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/nov/05/lockdown-nigel-farage-new-enemy-us-election-covid-19 Back in late-1980s Canada, a radical-right outfit called the Reform party waged war on the traditional centre-right party, the Progressive Conservatives. The goal was to derail the socially liberal direction of the Conservatives, and push sweeping tax cuts, tougher law-and-order policies and more direct democracy through referendums, as well as opposing multiculturalism. Sound familiar? The party’s argument was framed around the need for reform of institutions such as Canada’s senate, much like Farage and Tice’s calls for the House of Lords. It didn’t happen overnight, but Canada’s Reform party eventually grew bigger than the Progressive Conservatives, and in 2003 merged with them to form today’s Conservative party of Canada. Discussions on bringing about something similar in the UK are not new for Farage and company. “For years they’ve talked about becoming the small Canada party that took over the Conservative party,” Steven Woolfe, former Ukip leadership contender and MEP, told me last year. In the 2015 election, the example of Canada’s Reform party influenced Ukip’s manifesto, Woolfe said. At the time, Ukip’s influential lawyer, Matthew Richardson, and Farage’s senior adviser, Raheem Kassam, the former Breitbart London editor and Steve Bannon protege, were pushing hard for Ukip to go in this more radical right direction. Rightwing Conservatives including Michael Fabricant and Daniel Hannan were, according to Matthew Goodwin’s Ukip: Inside the Campaign to Redraw the Map of British Politics, even calling for an alliance between the two parties. When Farage later launched the Brexit party, it might have seemed like a single-issue party but the goal was very much to achieve what Ukip had failed: the creation of a new radical-right force that would permanently reshape British politics – something like Canada’s Reform party. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 @Zorral you may or may not have noticed, but quite often when we are being scathing against the Conservatives we say things like "fucking Reformers". The Conservative Party (the CPC) is not my father's Conservative Party, hell, not my younger self's CPC, because the radical right wing took them over and dismantled them. The old Progressive Conservative party had a very human wing that has been stamped out. The PCs led the world-wide fight against apartheid. Prime Minister Brian Mulroney thought the situation in South Africa was appalling. When I was a young lawyer at one of the US's largest corporations, we always had to keep an eye out for US anti-boycott laws because we were fucking boycotting South Africa and trading with Cuba. Honest to God, as much as I disliked the Conservatives Brian Mulroney should have received part of the glory of the Nobel Peace Prize for his leadership on the fight. Brian Mulroney, as the Vietnam war ended in crisis, immediately called on Canadians to open up their homes and churches and sponsor refugees. We took in 100,000 people, one of the largest per-capita numbers in the world. Compare that to this version of the faux-Conservative party, blocking refugees every way they could. Once the Liberals were elected, what's one of the things we did? We announced we were accepting 50,000 Syrian refugees, and Canadians once again sponsored folks, opening up their homes and renting apartments and giving support. The CPC would never, ever, ever do that, yet I'm sure Canadians who voted Conservative also sponsored Syrians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: you may or may not have noticed, but quite often when we are being scathing against the Conservatives we say things like "fucking Reformers" I didn't - but I'm trying to learn. With this isolation and teaching by Distance, and no longer evidently needing to cook for many others besides ourselves, I have some time I've never had before. Thanks! My Canadian history is all very early Canadian history, and almost all of that is focused on various communities of Blacks -- how and when they got there, how it worked out and so on, and particularly the policies for the African American communities that formed to escape the slave catchers in 19th C US, particularly as the then Canadian government actively supported these settlements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 13 hours ago, Fragile Bird said: Actually they suspended contact tracing to concentrate on the most urgent cases, because they were getting overwhelmed. Toronto just announced today that they are back to full contact tracing again. The "getting overwhelmed" bit is what annoys me. At around 300 cases per day, in a city of millions, the system they spent the summer building should not be overwhelmed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Oop North Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 5 minutes ago, Zorral said: I didn't - but I'm trying to learn. With this isolation and teaching by Distance, and no longer evidently needing to cook for many others besides ourselves, I have some time I've never had before. Thanks! My Canadian history is all very early Canadian history, and almost all of that is focused on various communities of Blacks -- how and when they got there, how it worked out and so on, and particularly the policies for the African American communities that formed to escape the slave catchers in 19th C US, particularly as the then Canadian government actively supported these settlements. Don't get too excited about Canadian Underground railroad - we like to promote that part of the history, while completely forgetting that we were also a slave-owning society. In grade school, I know that the Underground railroad is typically taught as part of the curriculum, but I don't recall talking about the before aspect. So many Canadians have this mistaken impression that our country doesn't have the same history with slavery as other countries do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 16 minutes ago, Paxter said: The "getting overwhelmed" bit is what annoys me. At around 300 cases per day, in a city of millions, the system they spent the summer building should not be overwhelmed. I'm not sure about that analysis. The cases ramped up very very fast. 300 cases a day, probably means 50 to 100 contacts for most people over the previous week or so, many calls having to be researched for phone numbers, many multiple calls being made because people didn't respond, it all takes time and manpower. I believe they concentrated on cases involving LTC facilities and hospitals during that huge jump. They have obviously hired and trained more tracers, but that would have taken some time. However, the government may have had rose-tinted glasses on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 Just now, Fragile Bird said: I'm not sure about that analysis. The cases ramped up very very fast. 300 cases a day, probably means 50 to 100 contacts for most people over the previous week or so, many calls having to be researched for phone numbers, many multiple calls being made nbecaiuse people didn't respond, it all takes time and manpower. I believe they concentrated on cases involving LTC facilities and hospitals during that huge jump. They have obviously hired and trained more tracers, but that would have taken some time. However, the government may have had rose-tined glasses on. I would have thought we should be prepared for many more than 300 cases per day. In the spring, the true number of cases per day in Toronto must have been in the thousands (or else the fatality data makes no sense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 8 minutes ago, Paxter said: I would have thought we should be prepared for many more than 300 cases per day. In the spring, the true number of cases per day in Toronto must have been in the thousands (or else the fatality data makes no sense). Yes, but in the spring nobody got tested except very sick people! 3,000 a day! The rest of us were told to stay at home unless we got really sick. Nobody contact-traced us! Our highest spring number in Ontario was 640 on April 24, for the whole province, and those cases were in Toronto (184 here), Peel, Windsor and Ottawa. Toronto had 2 days with 300 cases back in April, a couple of days with 200-300 (to be exact, 8 days) and everything else was below 200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: Yes, but in the spring nobody got tested except very sick people! 3,000 a day! The rest of us were told to stay at home unless we got really sick. Nobody contact-traced us! Our highest spring number in Ontario was 640 on April 24, for the whole province, and those cases were in Toronto (184 here), Peel, Windsor and Ottawa. Toronto had 2 days with 300 cases back in April, a couple of days with 200-300 (to be exact, 8 days) and everything else was below 200. But why would you not be prepared for a repeat of the spring caseload? Obviously the spring numbers you are referring to are significant undercounts. ETA: I know this current wave is nowhere near as bad as the spring in terms of actual cases, I guess I'm just disappointed that we didn't prepare for the worst in the fall/winter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 30 minutes ago, Lord of Oop North said: Don't get too excited about Canadian Underground railroad - we like to promote that part of the history, while completely forgetting that we were also a slave-owning society. In grade school, I know that the Underground railroad is typically taught as part of the curriculum, but I don't recall talking about the before aspect. So many Canadians have this mistaken impression that our country doesn't have the same history with slavery as other countries do. Thanks! I'm aware of this, but still in the hearts and minds of a significant segment of African American communities in the US -- i.e. up here, in NY and Massachusetts, for ex (not in the South, for the African Americans there didn't have that experience in their families), these communities feature large sand positively. At the same time of course, I'm aware that a lot of African Americans refugeeing there did see it as refugeeing, not migration. Members of Sojourner Truth's family for instance, hated being in Canada -- it was so cold! Also aware of the appalling treatment of Native People in Canada that, like here, continues unabated after all these centuries. But that is known here -- other stuff is not known here -- 'here' meaning in mine own mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 3 minutes ago, Paxter said: But why would you not be prepared for a repeat of the spring caseload? Obviously the spring numbers you are referring to are significant undercounts. ETA: I know this current wave is nowhere near as bad as the spring in terms of actual cases, I guess I'm just disappointed that we didn't prepare for the worst in the fall/winter. I agree with you! I saw a Globe and Mail story a week or two ago about Canadian numbers, and you know what shocked me? I knew that Quebec has produced the most deaths in Canada, but if Quebec was a country they had the third highest per-capita deaths in the world as of some day in September. Canada has had 10,336 deaths as of today, and 6,350 have been in Quebec. That means we've had fewer than 4,000 deaths in the rest of the country. And the numbers in Quebec are again taking the lead, another 28 today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted November 5, 2020 Share Posted November 5, 2020 29 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said: I agree with you! I saw a Globe and Mail story a week or two ago about Canadian numbers, and you know what shocked me? I knew that Quebec has produced the most deaths in Canada, but if Quebec was a country they had the third highest per-capita deaths in the world as of some day in September. Canada has had 10,336 deaths as of today, and 6,350 have been in Quebec. That means we've had fewer than 4,000 deaths in the rest of the country. And the numbers in Quebec are again taking the lead, another 28 today. Stated another way: the care home system in Quebec and Ontario should be completely dismantled and re-built. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Oh boy, I really got sucked down the US election rabbit hole! I will do two updates to catch up, I'd kind of like to have them here for reference. Update Oct. 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 BC 223 317 293 207 217 287 234 AB 432 364 572 504 422 410 477 SK 33 78 60 54 58 67 82 MB 163 153 161 100 184 170 193 ON 826 978 1042 851 827 834 934 PQ 905 1009 879 808 963 929 1030 Atl-4 2 6 3 5 4 3 4 North 1 2 1 Total 2588 2224 3010 2531 2675 2700 2956 Wow, the last week of October I was getting upset about the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Update Oct. 29 30 31 1 2 3 4 BC 234 272 352 389 379 299 335 AB 477 622 581 525 592 570 515 SK 82 76 78 74 74 81 37 MB 193 480 349 312 241 103 374 ON 934 896 1015 977 948 1050 987 PQ 1030 1108 1064 965 1037 871 1029 Atl-4 4 3 6 3 2 1 8 North 1 Total 2956 3457 2512 3245 3273 2975 3285 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Update Nov. 4 5 6 7 8 9 BC 335 425 589 567 536 462 AB 515 800* 609 919 727 644 SK 37 129 87 116 159 190 MB 374 427 243 271 441 365 ON 987 998 1003 1132 1328 1242 PQ 1029 1138 1133 1234 1397 1169 Atl-4 8 5 5 9 2 2 North 1 1 Total 3285 3922 3670 4248 4591 4074 Ok, we're up to date. What's new? Everything is going to hell, especially in Alberta. That one number has an asterix because the province had computer trouble and only said "at least 800". I know at least three hospitals have outbreaks, and there have been several social events that led to outbreaks, like weddings. Why oh why do these couples insist on having lots of people at their wedding in the middle of a pandemic? Toronto had it's worst day ever yesterday, with more than 500 cases. Nunavut finally has two cases it attributes as home-grown. The Atlantic bubble is hanging on. God bless. We have ordered 20 M of the Pfizer vaccine, but who knows when we're going to see any of it. At least we finally have light at the end of the tunnel! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 14 hours ago, Fragile Bird said: Update Nov. 4 5 6 7 8 9 BC 335 425 589 567 536 462 AB 515 800* 609 919 727 644 SK 37 129 87 116 159 190 MB 374 427 243 271 441 365 ON 987 998 1003 1132 1328 1242 PQ 1029 1138 1133 1234 1397 1169 Atl-4 8 5 5 9 2 2 North 1 1 Total 3285 3922 3670 4248 4591 4074 Ok, we're up to date. What's new? Everything is going to hell, especially in Alberta. That one number has an asterix because the province had computer trouble and only said "at least 800". I know at least three hospitals have outbreaks, and there have been several social events that led to outbreaks, like weddings. Why oh why do these couples insist on having lots of people at their wedding in the middle of a pandemic? Toronto had it's worst day ever yesterday, with more than 500 cases. Nunavut finally has two cases it attributes as home-grown. The Atlantic bubble is hanging on. God bless. We have ordered 20 M of the Pfizer vaccine, but who knows when we're going to see any of it. At least we finally have light at the end of the tunnel! ON and QC are still having far milder second waves (so far). They are both in the low double digits fatalities per day, versus combined totals of over 100 in the spring. Plenty of time for that to deteriorate over the winter though! AB I agree is having its most severe surge in cases and deaths to date; they will likely have to lock down before Christmas. MB is probably the most concerning one at the moment - 5,000 active cases is quite a lot for a province of just over a million people. ON with a population of 14m has 9,000 cases (not bad going by contrast!) ETA: Canada's fall wave compares extremely well to Europe's. As a point of contrast, the UK is up at 5 daily deaths / million people. Belgium's is a disastrous 16. Canada is way down at 1. (Seven-day rolling averages). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 10, 2020 Share Posted November 10, 2020 Belgium got hit hard on the first wave and it’s happening all over again. I really feel for them, especially since there are boarders I’m close to living there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted November 11, 2020 Share Posted November 11, 2020 I feel like I’m the only person in the city of Toronto who pulled over their car to observe a minute of silence at the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month. But I saw a TTC bus pull over too. The fly past went right over above me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paxter Posted November 12, 2020 Share Posted November 12, 2020 So the GTA is not re-opening after all. We are actually moving to a slightly stricter posture in Toronto. Correct decision, but crazy bad comms management by Ford and co. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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