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Werthead

(Content warning) So it turns out that David Eddings was a convicted and jailed child abuser

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26 minutes ago, Sad Panda said:

We'll see if more stuff comes out or what but like wert said above he behaved somewhat badly when his first novel came out, for reasons listed.

I know he lost some good will with a few readers after the "real books only" incident over at Fantasy Faction (on the book of face). (It's probably not a good idea to tell people that read eBooks for a variety of reasons including visual impairment issues that only print books are "real" books.)

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5 minutes ago, Sad Panda said:

I heard about that, which is weird considering how much he tends to push ebooks and self published stuff.

This is exactly what I was wondering. 

Yet he actively blocked people who politely pointed out the problem with his words and deleted their comments as well. (I saw the post and watched it all unfold in real-time, which is how I am privy to this information.)

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Ok, I am not going to provide receipts but I am going to chime in on the Lawrence situation.

First, there is no reason to not involve him in this discussion.  Sure, he was not sexually harassing people at cons but he did use a position of power to harass women and that is what is being talked about today.

Lawrence was very savvy with his social media early on, something I admired him for.  I picked up Prince of Thorns solely due to his presence on this forum.  When I started reviewing on a blog he was supportive early; I got a couple of his releases as ARCs way before my profile justified it.

But as I became more entrenched in the blogging community I started hearing stories.  More than one woman told me they would not review his stuff anymore despite liking some of his works (I am not talking about the hate readers here, that is a different story).  My circle of bloggers KNOW that ML in a twitter thread is Mark Lawrence because they know not to use his name.  He is well known for searching his name through social media and tweeting out links to bad reviews, directing lots of traffic to smaller blogs not expecting his rabid fans to converge and tell them how wrong they were.  His activity on reddit was uncomfortable; taking the 'high ground' as he started threads that his supporters jumped on and amplified.  For a long time he just couldn't stay away from any poster who criticized any part of his work. 

As Wert pointed out, he was notoriously thinned skinned about his first book.  But unlike Wert, I never saw the growth.  With Prince of Thorns it was always 'it is only one rape,' never quite admitting that yes, there is a rape at the start of the book, let alone that it may bother some readers.  But even as Red Sister came out he was still on the defensive, pointed out quite pointedly that it was a book that passes a reverse Betchel Test.

I guess what I am saying is... Schawb's accusation didn't come out of nowhere, nor did it surprise just about anyone in the blogging community.  Nor, judging by replies, did it surprise that many women authors.  Schawb may be a hypocrite for pointing it out, the accusation against here is VERY similar.  But that doesn't give Lawrence a free pass.  He has weaponized his fans, and he got called out on it. I don't see it sinking him like it appears Cole's actions have.  Hell, I don't see it affecting his fan base.  But it has happened.  And unlike several others, I have never seen the HINT of an apology or recognition of wrongness to his behavior. 

 

 

 

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Oddly enough, Sykes [despite his own behavior] was the one who called Cole out on the spot at a Con for being a creep [when Cole was trying to pull a woman onto his lap and said he wanted to piss on her]

I'm done with all of them.

The Girl and Stars wasn't even good, imo, which has nothing to do with the subject at hand. 

 

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9 hours ago, IlyaP said:

Was under the impression that the issues surrounding Clarke and his youthful liasons in Sri Lanka had already been widely known and investigated? I distinctly recall reading a long-form piece on the topic a few years ago. 

They were revisited a couple of years ago by a British writer who alleged that Clarke asked to paint him in the nude when he was 12 years old, and that this was apparently something he did frequently with children in the neighbourhood to the point where they were advised to stay away from his house.

Clarke was also in his forties when he moved to Sri Lanka from the UK, so not "his" youthful liaisons.

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Chuck Wendig distancing himself. 

I don't know how he didn't know. 

Wendig himself has come under fire for not just excusing bad behaviour, even when it was pointed out to him, but also siccing his fans on people who criticised him or his work. To be fair to Wendig, he's endured tirades of homophobic and alt-right attacks from arseholes over the years, but he has also not been shy about acting in a bullying and unpleasant manner online and getting extremely upset when people stand up for themselves (my every interaction with him, which has been mercifully few, has been uniformly negative).

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Sure, but they were all at these cons together. And those three were tight. Not seeming mere professional-friendly acquaintances like Chuck is sort of not-saying here.  

Sykes and Cole had an intermittently amusing tight buddy-repartee thing going on via Twitter for years. It seemed to die down in the last few months and someone noted that Sykes had stopped Cole from harassing someone at a convention (just before Sykes himself was accused of problematic behaviour). Cole was called out a couple of years ago for unacceptable behaviour but it was presented as one isolated problem at one convention stemming from his alcohol issues for which he apologised profusely. The last couple of days have exposed a much more consistent pattern of problems with multiple instances surfacing.

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Seeing accusations against Schwab that she recently sicced her twitter followers on a bad review of one of her books that called out some issues the review had with her representation of PoC. Dunno what to believe at this point.

Some of Schwab's followers were themselves trying to confront Lawrence on Twitter in the last 24 hours (although Schwab has also asked people not to do that).

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Oddly enough, Sykes [despite his own behavior] was the one who called Cole out on the spot at a Con for being a creep [when Cole was trying to pull a woman onto his lap and said he wanted to piss on her]

In the 1960s and 1970s Harlan Ellison would apparently insert himself between Isaac Asimov and young women he was trying to talk to at conventions because he knew Asimov was a groper. That doesn't excuse Ellison's own behavioural issues.

 

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Yeah, this is the one that's really blowing up big time. Scott has also been much more vociferous in defending himself and even threatening legal action.

ETA: Bear has also issued a statement on the situation, saying it is not true.

Edited by Werthead

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14 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Wendig himself has come under fire for not just excusing bad behaviour, even when it was pointed out to him, but also siccing his fans on people who criticised him or his work. To be fair to Wendig, he's endured tirades of homophobic and alt-right attacks from arseholes over the years, but he has also not been shy about acting in a bullying and unpleasant manner online and getting extremely upset when people stand up for themselves (my every interaction with him, which has been mercifully few, has been uniformly negative).



The thing about Wendig is so far there's not been any accusation against him with any kind of substance- like Sykes, people were like 'we were in the room when you didn't stop Myke', nothing like that's come out against him. People don't like him, and understandably so, but there does seem to be a current of people wanting to lump him in with the rest when, so far, there's no reason to except he knew them (mostly online), just because they want to get one over on him. He's appeared on a list by Ann Maguire of 'people I've recieved DMs about' (along with GRRM and others) but since the list of the things those people are accused of range from 'leveraging admiration into a sexual encounter' and 'drunken groping' to 'being an asshole in private' and 'refusing to acknowledge any fault' with no indication which man is responsible for what, there's not a lot that can be done with that.

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13 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

The thing about Wendig is so far there's not been any accusation against him with any kind of substance- like Sykes, people were like 'we were in the room when you didn't stop Myke', nothing like that's come out against him. People don't like him, and understandably so, but there does seem to be a current of people wanting to lump him in with the rest when, so far, there's no reason to except he knew them (mostly online), just because they want to get one over on him. He's appeared on a list by Ann Maguire of 'people I've recieved DMs about' (along with GRRM and others) but since the list of the things those people are accused of range from 'leveraging admiration into a sexual encounter' and 'drunken groping' to 'being an asshole in private' and 'refusing to acknowledge any fault' with no indication which man is responsible for what, there's not a lot that can be done with that.

Yeah, there seems to be a confluence of lumping everyone together when the actual allegations are not on the same level of notoriety. Wendig and Lawrence are at the "they've said stupid things online and some people took that too far," as opposed to "massive sexual impropriety" (although some additional allegations about Wendig have surfaced in that very thread, but on a hearsay basis).

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8 minutes ago, Werthead said:

(although some additional allegations about Wendig have surfaced in that very thread, but on a hearsay basis).


Yeah I just saw that rereading the thread. But as you say one person saying they heard they heard someone say is pretty flimsy.

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On 5/5/2020 at 6:55 AM, Werthead said:

A few years ago, when he was in his late sixties, Feist was dating a woman in her late twenties and later had a public meltdown about her hoodwinking some of his money out of him. He also, loudly, consistently and volubly, complained about his divorce from novelist Kathleen Starbuck in the late 1990s and how he was being forced to pay crippling amounts of alimony for years (hence why he started shovelling books out like there was no tomorrow after the Serpentwar series, includings ones barely related to the main thrust of his series).

He doesn't seem to have the best judgement, but it's not on the Eddings level, no. Clearly he's also a bit of an oversharer.

He's also a giant dickhead in real life. 

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If allegations surface against an author whose work is good, why on earth would you as a reader want him to be “cancelled”? All it does is rob you of enjoying his work in future. Guess it’s the age old debate of separating an artist or sportstar or actor or CEO’s personal acts or opinions from his professional work.

If, hypothetically speaking, the author whose next book we have all eagerly been awaiting for almost a decade now was suddenly accused of some impropriety, I would most certainly not want him “cancelled” by any means. If the transgression was serious enough send the offender to prison, but please send a typewriter with him so he can keep writing. Same goes for Lynch and whoever Bear is.

You ain’t gonna get me to stop reading Arthur C Clarke no matter what he did. Time to stop this cancel culture madness.

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God this thread is depressing. Why can't people just be good?

on Lynch and Bear - this sounds like an extremely fucked up situation. I believe that Lynch acted poorly and could have abused his position for a sexual relationship. I believe Rowland feels like she was manipulated and was afraid for her career. I am less clear about what role Bear played here. Is Rowland accusing her of being in on the manipulation? On a surface level, it seems like she was as much a victim of Lynch's bad behavior as Rowland? This just sound like a very messy and unhealthy shit-show that, unfortunately is not all that uncommon. Her use of the word 'groomed' doesn't seem to fit here? Bear's shit-talking is unprofessional, but that seems like a response someone would have.

This is not taking into account Rowland's claim of knowing others drawn into this situation. I also don't know anything about any of the involved parties other than Lynch's struggle with depression. I'm gonna sit on this one and see how it develops, because it feels a bit incomplete to me. Am I missing something or am I being blind to something here? Yes, I acknowledge that the power differential is real and Rowland felt anxious about displeasing them. (Although to be fair, Lynch really comes off as the asshole here, so I'm probably not changing that impression easily, unfortunately.)

Edited by Gertrude

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7 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

You ain’t gonna get me to stop reading Arthur C Clarke no matter what he did. Time to stop this cancel culture madness.

And no one's asking you to. This has been discussed throughout the thread - separating the author from their work. People draw different lines is all.

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The Lynch situation is a little difficult. He certainly lied and is a bad spouse, but is everyone who commits an extramarital affair guilty of gross sexual misconduct? How he conducts himself in his personal relationships doesnt really interest me at all unless some type of crime has been committed. Unless i missed something theres no evidence of him personally blackballing his accuser professionally, regardless of what Bear may have done. The whole scenario is a mess, to be sure, but alot of people cheat on their significant others. Its not illegal.

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38 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

If allegations surface against an author whose work is good, why on earth would you as a reader want him to be “cancelled”?

Integrity.

 

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I think we are going to find out that Elizabeth Bear has been abusing Scott Lynch for years. That is absolutely the dynamic of their relationship in real life in my experience. 

I don't forgive anything he did. But I don't think the story is over.

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The Bear/Lynch/Rowland stuff makes Lynch look pretty bad.  Bear, as Gertrude points out, seems to be reacting while Lynch is acting...if that makes sense at all.  Was reading Bear's Twitter thinking this is another one I'll never know what all was going on.  I believe Rowland's account and I agree with Stego that there is more to this story with regard to Bear and Lynch.

I am now...as most of us likely are...dreading hearing the names of authors whose work I love.  So far the closest I come is ML's Sister books and of course Lynch's work.  There are authors out there, though, that would crush me.

Hopefully this post is coherent.  I am falling asleep.

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Not religious, but if I was, the age difference and power imbalance between God and Mary would be seriously icking me out.

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