Who is the queen that will replace Cersei?

[redwolf@winterhell]

When Cersei was 10, she visited an old witch with  her friend Melara. Cersei gave Maggie a few drops of her blood and asked her 3 questions.

1.  Cersei; When will I wed the prince?

    Maggie; Never. You will wed the king.

    Cersei; I will be the queen though.....

    Maggie; Aye. A queen you shall be....until there comes another, younger and more beautiful ,to cast you down and take all you hold dear.

Then, Cersei asks her other 2 questions and receives her vague answers. But the question is; Who is the queen that will replace/you could say destroy Cersei? In my opinion, it's Sansa. The reason I say that, is that Sansa, you could say was..."taken under Cersei's wing". And Sansa actually learned a lot from Cersei, like how to manipulate people, so it would be really awesome for Cersei to realize that the "Little bird" that she mentally abused would replace her as the queen from the prophecy. So tell me what you all think!

[Tywin Manderly]

Dany! 

[winter daughter]

Although right now Margaery is the one in a position to take her down, I think Arianne and Dany are the most likely candidates.

I understand why Sansa seems like the best choice considering their history and especial relationship but she is not a queen and even if she does become one it'll not happen anytime soon and I doubt Cersei is gonna last long enough for that to happen.

[aromaticanalysis]

It has to be Sansa or Brienne, IMO. "Take all that you hold dear" implies taking Jaime, and I don't see how Dany or Margaery or Arianne will do that. 

[Nagini's Neville]

I hope it's Brienne

[Your Mummer]

 In the short term, Arianne will best placed to destroy Cersei as she will probably broker an alliance with Aegon, or marry him, and Dorne controls Myrcella, with Nym and Tyene arriving in KL to create havoc. Doran's ambition is to destroy everything Tywin held dear, so watch out blondie!

[Elegant Woes]

From a narrative standpoint Sansa makes the most sense. With Sansa it speaks to the larger theme of ruling (love vs. fear), the legacy of Ned vs Tywin. Secondly the YMB has to take something away from Cersei and Sansa has done that the most and the best part about is that it happened because she showed kindness and mercy. Qualities that Cersei abhors. So for Cersei to be brought down because of this qualities is the sweetest poetic justice she can get. 

[Mystical]

Or maybe none of them? I've never felt that a prophecy in and of itself was supposed to come about in the literal sense. But that GRRM has some of them come true not because it's foretold but because what people will do in the name of prophecies and how they almost accidentally get fulfilled.

Cersei, because she knows this prophecy, is her own undoing. Almost everything she does is in the name of preventing these prophecies.

That's why I always thought 'younger, more beautiful' would be younger Cersei. If Cersei had never known about the prophecy, she would have lived a different life and made different choices. But from that point on, the young and beautiful Cersei will forever be the one bringing about the ruin of adult Cersei.

And I would still think that even if it's someone else, especially Brienne (she gets Jamie because of Cercei's choices mostly) or Sansa (both how she treated Sansa and again Jaimie). Dany and Arianne would have very little impact for me. Marge is 50/50. But for me Cersei bringing about her own ruin because she believed in the prophecies is much more satisfying than some other woman literally taking everything from her.

[Lord Daedrunk]

1 hour ago, Mystical said:

Or maybe none of them? I've never felt that a prophecy in and of itself was supposed to come about in the literal sense. But that GRRM has some of them come true not because it's foretold but because what people will do in the name of prophecies and how they almost accidentally get fulfilled.

Cersei, because she knows this prophecy, is her own undoing. Almost everything she does is in the name of preventing these prophecies.

That's why I always thought 'younger, more beautiful' would be younger Cersei. If Cersei had never known about the prophecy, she would have lived a different life and made different choices. But from that point on, the young and beautiful Cersei will forever be the one bringing about the ruin of adult Cersei.

And I would still think that even if it's someone else, especially Brienne (she gets Jamie because of Cercei's choices mostly) or Sansa (both how she treated Sansa and again Jaimie). Dany and Arianne would have very little impact for me. Marge is 50/50. But for me Cersei bringing about her own ruin because she believed in the prophecies is much more satisfying than some other woman literally taking everything from her.

Huh, never thought of it that way. Thank you for sharing that big brain. I really do like this interpretation.

My two cents has always been Margaery. She will take the three things that Cercei still holds dear. Her son (last child in her possession), her crown, and her home. Cercei has never seemed to long for the Rock (unlike say, Tyrion), but she does seems to cherish the Red Keep as being the place she has raised her family. I see no reason why Cercei would be allowed to stay at the Red Keep once Tommen comes of age and has married Margaery. 

[Nagini's Neville]

1 hour ago, Mystical said:

That's why I always thought 'younger, more beautiful' would be younger Cersei.

  Brilliant!!

[ThotKiller]

It is Jeyne Westerling

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“A maid of sixteen years, named Jeyne,” said Ser Kevan. “Lord Gawen once suggested her to me for
Willem or Martyn, but I had to refuse him. Gawen is a good man, but his wife is Sybell Spicer. He should
never have wed her. The Westerlings always did have more honor than sense. Lady Sybell’s grandfather
was a trader in saffron and pepper, almost as lowborn as that smuggler Stannis keeps. And the
grandmother was some woman he’d brought back from the east. A frightening old crone, supposed to be
a priestess.Maegi , they called her. No one could pronounce her real name. Half of Lannisport used to
go to her for cures and love potions and the like.” He shrugged. “She’s long dead, to be sure. And Jeyne
seemed a sweet child, I’ll grant you, though I only saw her once. But with such doubtful blood . . . ”

Comfirmed by Patchface

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Patchface jumped up. “I will lead it!” His bells rang merrily. “We will march into the sea and out again. Under the waves we will ride seahorses, and mermaids will blow seashells to announce our coming, oh, oh, oh.”

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Westerling, yes, Catelyn thought.Their banner is six seashells, white on sand. A minor house sworn
to the Lannisters .

 

[Alyn Oakenfist]

Arianne. She will marry fAegon, and be with him when he takes KL

[chrisdaw]

It'll end up being Sansa, but before then she'll think it's Arianne and then Dany like she has thought it is Marge.

[kissdbyfire]

C’mon people, are you all high on something? 

Cersei is IRREPLACEABLE!

[Vaith]

You could say that Margaery has already "replaced" her on some level. Since Joffrey and Tommen wed her, Cersei is legally the Queen Mother and Queen Regent rather than THE queen, and then Cersei's paranoia has led her down a path where her own political power has been taken from her.

Of course, it doesn't seem assured that Cersei will lose power forever. But maybe Maggy was just simplifying things and noting one of several falls from power she would have...  

[Nevets]

Margaery.

She will take down Cersei in self-defense if for no other reason.  Cersei's attempts to avoid the prophecy will make it come true.

[Mithras]

The prophecy does not say that the Younger and More Beautiful Queen (YMBQ) will replace Cersei. The exact phrasing is “casting [Cersei] down” and "taking all that [Cersei] holds dear", which is power.

I think Myrcella is the YMBQ. After Tommen’s death, she will be crowned as the queen but Cersei will do the ruling as the Queen Regent. In the end, Myrcella will commit suicide because her struggles with Cersei will be very emotionally taxing to her; as well as the confession of the twincest by Jaime. Myrcella’s suicide will be akin to “casting Cersei down” (as she will no longer be the ruling Queen Regent) and “taking all that Cersei holds dear” (i.e. power). After Myrcella’s suicide, Cersei’s story will be ready to be wrapped up in the hands of Jaime, hence bringing Maggy’s prophecy to full resolution.

Analysis

Two antagonists are mentioned in Maggy’s Prophecy: valonqar and the YMBQ. Valonqar is 99.9% Jaime. Therefore, the other antagonist turning out to be family and a loved one of Cersei would be an equally shocking reveal (at least for Cersei). Just like Jaime=valonqar, Myrcella=YMBQ would be a solution that is not overly complex.

Myrcella has “all of her mother’s beauty, and none of her nature”. Myrcella was very friendly and sympathetic with the Stark kids, the Martells and even Tyrion (all of whom hated by Cersei). Myrcella is “braver than her brother, and brighter and more confident”. Myrcella was “daunted by nothing, not even Joffrey.” Arys Oakheart thought that she is a strong character.

I think Tommen will be poisoned early in TWoW and Myrcella will be crowned as the queen next. Cersei will keep ruling as the Queen Regent of Myrcella. However, Myrcella and Cersei will start having serious disagreements. Myrcella is not a character to comply with Cersei’s bullshit. That will expose Myrcella to the actual, nasty side of Cersei. It will be psychologically very exhausting for her. Close to the end, Myrcella will be driven to suicide. Jaime’s confession of the twincest to Myrcella might be the final straw.

 

Foreshadowing for Jaime eventually telling the truth to Myrcella

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He [Jaime] thought of Myrcella. I will need to tell her too. The Dornishmen might not like that. Doran Martell had betrothed her to his son in the belief that she was Robert’s blood.

I think the confession will come after a long process of psychological exhaustion from Myrcella’s political struggle with Cersei and being traumatized by her villainy.

Foreshadowing from the Dance of Dragons

Otto Hightower = Tywin Lannister: Lord of one of the richest and most powerful Houses in the Realm. The Hand with ambitions above his station. Seeks marriage ties with the royal dynasty and eventually gets it by marrying his daughter to the king. But in the end, all those efforts and schemes go to dust.

Alicent Hightower = Cersei Lannister: Ambitious and vindictive queen. Conspires to see her own blood on the Iron Throne. Favorite color: green. Lives long enough to see all her plots fail and all her children die.

Viserys I Targaryen = Robert Baratheon: Not an exact match like the above but it still works. Robert has the drunken whoremongering of Aegon II (at least before he was incapacitated by injuries). But more than that, Robert has the unwillingness to rule and indifference to the scheming of the ambitious wife from Viserys. Also just like Viserys, Robert’s death (i.e. murder by the ambitious queen) causes a war of succession in his wake.

With these parallels from Fire & Blood established, the following quote from Fire & Blood comes as strong foreshadowing for not only Myrcella=YMBQ but also her tragic fate:

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The price was high; a golden dragon for Queen Alicent, three dragons for Queen Helaena, who was younger and more beautiful.

The daughter of Cersei’s direct parallel from the Dance of Dragons is deliberately referred to as the “younger and more beautiful” queen. This is not random. And truth be told, Alicent was more beautiful than Helaena but GRRM still used this specific phrase to make the foreshadowing work. That in itself might be another clue as well.

In addition to that, Queen Helaena jumped to her death from Maegor’s Holdfast due to the tragedies she suffered as a result of the schemes of her mother. This strengthens the notion of Myrcella’s suicide in the end.

[Walda]

Brienne the beauty will cast Cersei down, although Jaime is not as dear to Cersei as he was before he murdered Eddard's entourage and fled Kings Landing. Can't see Brienne taking Tommen, Myrcella, or the regency from Cersei, either.

Sansa is the other obvious possibility - again, can't see Sansa taking Tomnen or Myrcella, and can't see anyone in the South recognising her as a pretender to the Iron Throne. 

That could make the valonar a brother of Sansa, or a half-brother.

"And when your tears have drowned you" - it appears this drowning is not going to kill Cersei. Is she going to rise again harder and stronger?

 Her tears - tears of Lys? Tears like Alyssa Arryn?  In life Cersei wasn't as dry-eyed over Joffrey's death as Alyssa had been over her menfolk buried in the vale below.

"The valonqar shall wrap his hands about your pale white throat and choke the life from you":  both Jaime and Tyrion are Cersei's younger brothers, although it is 'the' valonqar not 'your' valonqar, so could also be the younger brother of the younger, more beautiful one. Or anyone elses younger brother.

That is, assuming the High Valyrian or its common tongue translation hasn't led us to mistake the gender of the valonqar, as Maester Aemon thought had happened with the Prince that was Promised prophecy, and the gender-fluid nature of dragons. The valonqar might be female. Or might not signify specifically a sibling relationship. It might have a meaning that Septa Sarcenella did not know, or did not share with Cersei. For all we know, it could mean "dwarf" 

 

[Moiraine Sedai]

Daenerys Targaryen

The person replacing Cersei will already be a queen.  That narrows the choice to Daenerys Targaryen and Margaery Tyrell. Daenerys is more beautiful.  

[BridgeofFire]

It’s definitely Dany, because when Cersei went to Maggie the frog, and to the witch she asked would she be the queen and Maggie spoke the words that would haunt Cersei for years to come.

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Aye. A queen you shall be.... until there comes another, younger and more beautiful, to cast you down and take all you hold dear.

The reason I connect these to characters who don’t even live on the same continent is that Daenerys Targaryen has also been affected by the same kind creepy fortune telling witch a and I think Cersei is so afraid that it will be Margaery that when Dany comes she won’t expect it. Also with Margaery queen and married to Tommen, Cersei will remain with honorary title queen mother, but with Dany on the throne, she will literally be cast down. Cersei also is known to hold two things especially dear:

1) her children, and 

2) her power

When Dany comes she, I think, will take those away.