Arya's storyline going forward

[Barbrey Dustin]

@rustythesmith  It is tragic. Arya Stark has experienced a lot of sorrow and tragedy in her young life.  But she is not the only one.  I cannot give her an excuse because she made choices.  She has committed multiple murders but the guilt is lessened by mitigating circumstances.  We would send her to a detention facility and offer psychological evaluation.  Medication and what have you to treat her will be provided at state's expense.  Except those are not available.  Her chances of recovery are not good but not impossible because Earthos is a fictional creation of George RR Martin.  He can change her fate in a few pages if he want to.

@Nagini's Neville  There is a planet-sized difference in motivation.  Daenerys has and will continue to have to commit violence in order to bring about a better future and save millions of people from slavery.  Her enemies are morally worse people than Nazis and southern U.S. slave owners.  The burden and the responsibility mostly are on the shoulders of the Ghiscari.  They can give up slavery and never try to bring it back.  There will be no need for further violence if they make that choice, which happens to be the moral choice.  Arya is motivated to pursue a combination of revenge and justice.  It is not worth shedding the blood of people who were not even in Westeros during the war of the five kings just to avenge the Starks.  It's not worth it.  She did not have to kill the old man.  She chose to do it because it was asked of her.  She wanted to learn the killing trade from the faceless and this is what they asked her to do.  It was even less necessary to kill the singer.  They are not in Westeros, the Starks have fallen, and she is not the lord of Winterfell.  His life was not hers to judge and much less to take. 

 

[Darth Sidious]

On 5/11/2020 at 7:04 AM, Pdor said:

I agree with the bolded, in a healthy real world-environment she would have been entrusted to social services. That said, she is a fictional character living in a fantasy world, so that isn't a option.

We do know that before all the bad things that appaened to her she was one if not the most good-hearted character in the books, even protecting a low-born against the crown prince, not many high-borns would have done that. This, in my eyes, makes her transformation even more tragic. Of course she deserves empathy.

The fact that other children, like Hot Pie or Gendry, settled in more peaceful accomodations, can be explained. First, trauma can affect different people in differt ways. Second, she is a high-born in a world were nobles act on revenge all the time and the law has no meaning when your army is bigger than your enemy's. In my opinion she, even when she knows that many of the social norms of her world are unjust, has unwillingly internalized some of them. As a result, here we have her revenge thirst and the "execution" of the NW deserter.

Your character interpretation is spot on.  I used to belong to the fan club calling for a painful death for Arya. I am not a fan of Arya Stark.  But, you are very right about her past.  She was a child with compassion.  My opinion has recently changed.  Now I believe incarceration is for the best.  

Off the topic but I was faced with a similar problem in real life.  Similar to me.  Might not be in the opinion of others.  I had to decide what to do with a dog aggressive bully breed that came into my household.  My family adopted the dog without discussing with me.  This is my first experience with a dog who cannot be taken to the park.  He hurts other dogs. Taking the dog to be put to sleep is not the moral thing to do.  He was raised to be mean and then spent the next six years with the no-kill shelter.  He had to be rehomed twice until he came to mine.  The dog cannot be allowed to hurt others.  I do not have the facility but knew someone who did. Keeping him within the bounds of a fenced in back yard and indoors in the new home is his life now.  It is a very limiting life but a necessary compromise.  The same can be done for Arya.  I do not believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel for her.  At least not if George R. R. Martin wants to keep it real.  If not incarceration then a life on the other side of the wall with the free folk.

[winter daughter]

23 minutes ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

I used to belong to the fan club calling for a painful death for Arya.

Wth!?

[Nagini's Neville]

34 minutes ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

I used to belong to the fan club calling for a painful death for Arya.

Why? She is still an 11 year old child. And not Joffrey. She had to suffer so much trauma already. Sorry, but that's pretty fucked up IMO. 

Edit:

And I just really don't understand this attitude coming repeatedly from Dany fans, who is also a traumatized young girl, who in a lot of ways comes from a colonialist pov and is responsible for a lot of death including 13 year old children. 

Some of the people Arya killed were evil and deserved it, others she killed to survive and one maybe two because she is traumatized. But she is still only 11. An 11 year old child would not be judged as an adult for said actions, especially, if certain circumstances forced her into this way of living, but she would be given help in our world and that for good reasons.

The comparison to a child soldier is the most accurate IMO. Everyone reacts differently to trauma and children should not be judged too harshly, especially, if their lives literally depends on them behaving a certain way and their brains aren't fully developed yet.

And honestly Arya and Dany are not so different in their reaction to trauma and injustice.

And I think Arya living out her life as a wolf is just "wishful thinking" on the side of ppl, who hate her. LS was created to give Arya perspective and change the trajectory of her life. She is very well capable of it, she shown it already with the Hound. And her reuniting with her family will help as well.They all will help each other heal.

[Pdor]

1 hour ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

Your character interpretation is spot on.  I used to belong to the fan club calling for a painful death for Arya. I am not a fan of Arya Stark.  But, you are very right about her past.  She was a child with compassion.  My opinion has recently changed.  Now I believe incarceration is for the best.  

Off the topic but I was faced with a similar problem in real life.  Similar to me.  Might not be in the opinion of others.  I had to decide what to do with a dog aggressive bully breed that came into my household.  My family adopted the dog without discussing with me.  This is my first experience with a dog who cannot be taken to the park.  He hurts other dogs. Taking the dog to be put to sleep is not the moral thing to do.  He was raised to be mean and then spent the next six years with the no-kill shelter.  He had to be rehomed twice until he came to mine.  The dog cannot be allowed to hurt others.  I do not have the facility but knew someone who did. Keeping him within the bounds of a fenced in back yard and indoors in the new home is his life now.  It is a very limiting life but a necessary compromise.  The same can be done for Arya.  I do not believe there is a light at the end of the tunnel for her.  At least not if George R. R. Martin wants to keep it real.  If not incarceration then a life on the other side of the wall with the free folk.

I understand your reasoning about the confinement, but since she is so young and willful Arya would most likely just run away at the first opportunity. I think finding a her new role-model and giving her a "job" where she can put her abilities at the service of the community would work better. That from an in-universe "save the child" perspective, But that would be boring.

From a reader pov, since I like her very much and I enjoy reading her, it would be way more entertaining she comes back home with all her new skills and take her bloody revenge Beatrix Kiddo style.

 

 

[Lady Topspin]

Pet dogs do not really have a choice.  Arya had and has choices.  I am not saying she should be killed but she should be held accountable for the deaths of the old man and the night's watch man.

 

[Lady Dacey]

based on the reasoning being used by some people on this thread I'm thinking Eddard Stark should have been incarcerated, too.  

[Khal Rhaego Targaryen]

Arya's death is inevitable, the only question is how and when and what she does first. In Varamyre's POV we know that when a Warg dies they can live a second life inside their animal, and Arya is a warg. To live on as Nymeria, with a pack, with the means to kill people she wants dead. Would be all she ever wanted. She gets her pack, and the idea of loosing herself in the wolf eventually isn't anything bad or new for her, she would likely welcome it. If Arya dies an becomes a single persona, and one she's already living that's a happier end than we can hope for. It's certainly bittersweet, and GRRM has preached his ending will be bittersweet. 

[Bullrout]

Just now, Prince Rhaego said:

Arya's death is inevitable, the only question is how and when and what she does first. In Varamyre's POV we know that when a Warg dies they can live a second life inside their animal, and Arya is a warg. To live on as Nymeria, with a pack, with the means to kill people she wants dead. Would be all she ever wanted. She gets her pack, and the idea of loosing herself in the wolf eventually isn't anything bad or new for her, she would likely welcome it. If Arya dies an becomes a single persona, and one she's already living that's a happier end than we can hope for. It's certainly bittersweet, and GRRM has preached his ending will be bittersweet. 

This is what I believe her future will be.  

[Bullrout]

7 hours ago, Pdor said:

I understand your reasoning about the confinement, but since she is so young and willful Arya would most likely just run away at the first opportunity. I think finding a her new role-model and giving her a "job" where she can put her abilities at the service of the community would work better. That from an in-universe "save the child" perspective, But that would be boring.

From a reader pov, since I like her very much and I enjoy reading her, it would be way more entertaining she comes back home with all her new skills and take her bloody revenge Beatrix Kiddo style.

And this is drama.  So yeah.  There you have it.  She is not going to change back to normal because the author wants to do his job and create drama for us.  What will happen to Arya is not going to be decided by fan polling.  The plot serves the story and the story serves to create emotion.  

 

 

[SeanF]

I don't see how anyone can see Arya's character arc as anything other than desperately sad.  In real life, one may have no choice but to kill a child soldier in self-defence, but one can never be happy about it.  The villains are not the child soldiers, but the adults who make them what they are.

Arya (like Dany or Sansa) has to experience things that no child should ever have to experience.  She deserves far more pity than condemnation, even if her character arc does end in darkness.  She is very much a victim of dreadful circumstances.

I don't get the sense that fans of Dany generally hate Arya.  They're two of my favourite characters.

I don't know that the insurance broker or Daeron deserved to die, but Arya is aged 10/11 at the time, and has been horribly victimised.  The blame for Arya's actions rests far more with those who have victimised her than with Arya.  A good point of comparison is with the book A Fair Wind to Jamaica, about children who get kidnapped by pirates.  There's a horribly jarring scene where they torture a pirate to death, but it's not because they're psychopaths, just horribly traumatised by what they've endured.

[Stormourne]

Arya will survive, most likely. And she may be scarred for life, but with family, she will slowly heal and perhaps find happiness in the future. Even child soldiers can be saved and lead a good life, so long as they have a strong support structure going forward.

I just want her to live and find closure.

[Nagini's Neville]

4 hours ago, SeanF said:

A Fair Wind to Jamaica, about children who get kidnapped by pirates.  There's a horribly jarring scene where they torture a pirate to death, but it's not because they're psychopaths, just horribly traumatised by what they've endured.

oh yeah, great comparison! love that book and it reminded me of Arya's situation too, even though of course she doesn't torture people. One of the kids also dies and they just "forget" about him. Thought that also relates well to the fact, that the Stark/Snow kids can't constantly think and worry about each other, if they want to be able to keep going.

[SeanF]

5 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

oh yeah, great comparison! love that book and it reminded me of Arya's situation too, even though of course she doesn't torture people. One of the kids also dies and they just "forget" about him. Thought that also relates well to the fact, that the Stark/Snow kids can't constantly think and worry about each other, if they want to be able to keep going.

I've always feared that Arya's character arc might end up with her being another Pretty Meris.  A dead-eyed assassin and torturer, but made so by what has been done to her.

[Mordred]

7 hours ago, SeanF said:

I don't see how anyone can see Arya's character arc as anything other than desperately sad.  In real life, one may have no choice but to kill a child soldier in self-defence, but one can never be happy about it.  The villains are not the child soldiers, but the adults who make them what they are.

Arya (like Dany or Sansa) has to experience things that no child should ever have to experience.  She deserves far more pity than condemnation, even if her character arc does end in darkness.  She is very much a victim of dreadful circumstances.

I don't get the sense that fans of Dany generally hate Arya.  They're two of my favourite characters.

I don't know that the insurance broker or Daeron deserved to die, but Arya is aged 10/11 at the time, and has been horribly victimised.  The blame for Arya's actions rests far more with those who have victimised her than with Arya.  A good point of comparison is with the book A Fair Wind to Jamaica, about children who get kidnapped by pirates.  There's a horribly jarring scene where they torture a pirate to death, but it's not because they're psychopaths, just horribly traumatised by what they've endured.

A High Wind to Jamaica?

Sandor, Jaquen, and the Faceless Men are partly to blame.  They were far from positive.  This is George Martin however.  What we consider dark may be his own version of fun.  I am a Dany fan but I do not hate Arya.  I don't find Arya's story to be good reading but I do not hate her.  She is deserving of some pity but how people will feel about her in the end will definitely be determined by which people she kills.  I do not care if she kills or hurts any of the Lannisters, her siblings, their wolves, or the Freys.  But if she were to hurt any of Dany's entourage, yeah, I would wish the seven hells for Arya Stark. 

[PrettyLittlePsycho]

On 5/6/2020 at 1:28 AM, a black swan said:

Hmm. It would be such an interesting stand off if Tyrion & Arya met. It could go so many different ways. 

 

Thank you.

This is a pairing I´ve been dreaming about for a long time. I don´t actually believe it will happen anytime soon cause I don´t see Arya joining Team Dany. But Arya and Tyrion are two of the most witty and underestimated characters in the story. Teaming them up would be awesome.

[butterweedstrover]

Arya is the ice in ASOIAF, she is the parallel of Lyanna. 

Once the waif who is Ashara Dayne tells her about Aegon VI she'll hear Justin Massey speaking about fArya and decide to return to westeros to pursue her place as queen. 

Remember Ned always said she would be queen, and her relationship with Jaqen at Harrenhall was metaphorical of Lyanna and Rhaegar at the heart tree pledging themselves to one another. 

[Hodor the Articulate]

On 8/20/2020 at 9:43 AM, butterweedstrover said:

Once the waif who is Ashara Dayne tells her about Aegon VI she'll hear Justin Massey speaking about fArya and decide to return to westeros to pursue her place as queen. 

Erm... I think you're missing a few steps there.

[butterweedstrover]

6 hours ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Erm... I think you're missing a few steps there.

why? 

Its all there in the post.

[Targaryen Restoration]

On 8/19/2020 at 5:43 PM, butterweedstrover said:

Arya is the ice in ASOIAF, she is the parallel of Lyanna. 

Once the waif who is Ashara Dayne tells her about Aegon VI she'll hear Justin Massey speaking about fArya and decide to return to westeros to pursue her place as queen. 

Remember Ned always said she would be queen, and her relationship with Jaqen at Harrenhall was metaphorical of Lyanna and Rhaegar at the heart tree pledging themselves to one another. 

Jon's night's queen. 

One other thing.  Lyanna was never really a queen.  Not at any time in the story.  Except for the honorary title at Harrenhal.