Jump to content
Sign in to follow this  
King Adrian Storm

Arya's storyline going forward

Recommended Posts

3 hours ago, Nevets said:

There is already a moratorium on payment.  That's why Swyft is there in the first place.   So if they reject his offer, they are no worse off than before

 And the death of an actress isn't likely to cause much scandal.  She's free-lancing, and depending on how much trouble it causes, the FM will be anywhere from miffed to seriously angry at her.  In any event, it will cause trouble for her.

Yeah, there is moratorium for an unspecified time while the IT requires new loans. But escalation might lead to sovereign default. That is what I meant.

The Braavosi are very patriotic, due to their origins. And they consider the Westerosi as savages. Ultimately, the governors of the city want to make a huge scandal out of this. It is not that hard to incite mass public outrage. They might even use drugs on people, as implied in the case of the storming of Dragonpit during the Dance.

I don't think Arya is free lancing. She was supposed to seduce one of the guards and the fact that she saw Raff among them was simply a "gift from the gods" as she thought.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 hours ago, zandru said:

Exactly. And, ironically, Arya was portraying Sansa. And her lines were simply

Was Sansa supposed to be murdered in that play? Because "I’m Mercy, and tonight I’ll be raped and murdered." thinks Arya at the beginning of the chapter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, zandru said:

The "real Mercy"? Arya is the "real" and original Mercy, as far as the text indicates. She hasn't replaced anybody; isn't doing the magic faceskin schtick. I'm not sympathetic to this whole "set up Harys Swift with a scandal" storyline; seems far fetched and byzantine to me. Why would "the locals" go berzerk at hearing a mummer girl was violated and killed? Mummers are a short step above cutpurses; girls routinely sell their "charms" and if they run into the wrong punter, well, that's market forces for you. It's a conspiracy theory.

Of course, your mileage may differ.

You don't know that Arya didnot replace the real Mercy. I think it is very likely that she did.

Also you don't know that Arya is wearing her own face. On the contrary, I think the text is clear that she will wear a new face "as pretty as her own".

Everything about Braavos is byzantine by design.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 hours ago, Widowmaker 811 said:

I fully agree with Arya's critics.  She will continue her downwards spiral towards violence and madness.  What little reason she has left will snap when she hears about her brother's execution at the wall.  

What signs of madness have you seen?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, dbergkvist said:

Arya is referred to as "Mercy" throughout the chapter, except at the moment she says "You think so?" to Raff -- then she's "Arya". And she's acting way too old for her age without anyone seeming to notice.

Well, you've got it, kdbergkvist. Arya is ACTING. She's created the persona of Mercy for her stint with the mummers. She's not replacing a murdered woman. This is exactly what Arya did when she was selling shellfish earlier.

7 hours ago, Mithras said:

Was Sansa supposed to be murdered in that play? Because "I’m Mercy, and tonight I’ll be raped and murdered." thinks Arya at the beginning of the chapter.

The play was "The Bloody Hand" or something. It appears to be the Hollywood version of Ned Stark's tenure as Hand to Robert, with the Imp thrown in as the Evil Villain. We know, having seen it through both Sansa and Tyrion's eyes, that Tyrion never consummated their marriage, much less raped or killed her. But this is a fictionalized version.

On the other hand, maybe Mercy is playing Shae. But more likely, the play collapses both women into a single character so that Lady Sansa is both raped and killed.

7 hours ago, Mithras said:

You don't know that Arya didnot replace the real Mercy. I think it is very likely that she did.

Also you don't know that Arya is wearing her own face. On the contrary, I think the text is clear that she will wear a new face "as pretty as her own".

Well, in all honesty, you don't know either. Moreover, if the text clearly states "you will wear a new face as pretty as your own", that doesn't mean a woman will be killed, Arya will skin her, and put on her face. Remember Arya's assignment where she wore the badly mutilated face of the murdered girl? It was right off the rack. Like I wrote, Arya has created a new persona, "Mercy", and joined the mummer's troupe.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
7 minutes ago, zandru said:

Well, in all honesty, you don't know either. Moreover, if the text clearly states "you will wear a new face as pretty as your own", that doesn't mean a woman will be killed, Arya will skin her, and put on her face. Remember Arya's assignment where she wore the badly mutilated face of the murdered girl? It was right off the rack. Like I wrote, Arya has created a new persona, "Mercy", and joined the mummer's troupe.

 

I thought Mercy was just a face from the room of faces, do people believe the Faceless men run around skinning faces in the field?  Like with curing racks and everything?  I imagine they could take a face from someone they've killed but I don't think it's the kind of deal you just slap on afterwards.  

Edited by Darksnider05

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Darksnider05 said:

do people believe the Faceless men run around skinning faces in the field?  Like with curing racks and everything?

It was always my impression that the faces come from the many people who visit the House of Black & White to die. No murder is necessary; these are people who have come to receive the mercy of death.

The one time that we've seen a Faceless Man kill and replace someone was when Jaqen Hgar killed that maester student, and even then, Jaqen changed to have the boy's face using a glamour. Not a faceskin.

Edited by zandru
additional thoughts

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, zandru said:

Arya is ACTING. She's created the persona of Mercy for her stint with the mummers. She's not replacing a murdered woman. This is exactly what Arya did when she was selling shellfish earlier.

An 11 year old cannot look older than 11 through acting. So why would Raff follow her, if she was just a child with no faceless men magic involved to make her appear older? Is he a pedophile? If so, how could Arya have known that?

Edited by dbergkvist
grammar

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, dbergkvist said:

An 11 year old cannot look older than 11 through acting. So why would Raff follow her, if she was just a child with no faceless men magic involved to make her appear older? Is he a pedophile? If so, how could Arya have known that?

Maybe because she was there when the Mountain's men laughed about gang raping a thirteen year old girl?

Spoiler

 "After the Hand's tourney, it were, before the war come," Chiswyck was saying. "We were on our ways back west, seven of us with Ser Gregor. Raff was with me, and young Joss Stilwood, he'd squired for Ser in the lists. Well, we come on this pisswater river, running high on account there'd been rains. No way to ford, but there's an alehouse near, so there we repair. Ser rousts the brewer and tells him to keep our horns full till the waters fall, and you should see the man's pig eyes shine at the sight o' silver. So he's fetching us ale, him and his daughter, and poor thin stuff it is, no more'n brown piss, which don't make me any happier, nor Ser neither. And all the time this brewer's saying how glad he is to have us, custom being slow on account o' them rains. The fool won't shut his yap, not him, though Ser is saying not a word, just brooding on the Knight o' Pansies and that bugger's trick he played. You can see how tight his mouth sits, so me and the other lads we know better'n to say a squeak to him, but this brewer he's got to talk, he even asks how m'lord fared in the jousting. Ser just gave him this look." Chiswyck cackled, quaffed his ale, and wiped the foam away with the back of his hand. "Meanwhile, this daughter of his has been fetching and pouring, a fat little thing, eighteen or so—"
"Thirteen, more like," Raff the Sweetling drawled.
"Well, be that as it may, she's not much to look at, but Eggon's been drinking and gets to touching her, and might be I did a little touching meself, and Raff's telling young Stilwood that he ought t' drag the girl upstairs and make hisself a man, giving the lad courage as it were. Finally Joss reaches up under her skirt, and she shrieks and drops her flagon and goes running off to the kitchen. Well, it would have ended right there, only what does the old fool do but he goes to Ser and asks him to make us leave the girl alone, him being an anointed knight and all such.
"Ser Gregor, he wasn't paying no mind to none of our fun, but now he looks, you know how he does, and he commands that the girl be brought before him. Now the old man has to drag her out of the kitchen, and no one to blame but hisself. Ser looks her over and says, 'So this is the whore you're so concerned for,' and this besotted old fool says, 'My Layna's no whore, ser,' right to Gregor's face. Ser, he never blinks, just says, 'She is now,' tosses the old man another silver, rips the dress off the wench, and takes her right there on the table in front of her da, her flopping and wiggling like a rabbit and making these noises. The look on the old man's face, I laughed so hard ale was coming out me nose. Then this boy hears the noise, the son I figure, and comes rushing up from the cellar, so Raff has to stick a dirk in his belly. By then Ser's done, so he goes back to his drinking and we all have a turn. Tobbot, you know how he is, he flops her over and goes in the back way. The girl was done fighting by the time I had her, maybe she'd decided she liked it after all, though to tell the truth I wouldn't have minded a little wiggling. And now here's the best bit . . . when it's all done, Ser tells the old man that he wants his change. The girl wasn't worth a silver, he says . . . and damned if that old man didn't fetch a fistful of coppers, beg m'lord's pardon, and thank him for the custom!"

-Arya VII, ACOK

Edit: And the second guard in the Mercy chapter was disgusted by Raff, and mentioned Mercy being a child

Edited by AryaRegina

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, zandru said:

It was always my impression that the faces come from the many people who visit the House of Black & White to die. No murder is necessary; these are people who have come to receive the mercy of death.

That's what is sounds like to me. And they seem to use the skins in a sort of blood magic ritual to glamor the wearer.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

That's what is sounds like to me. And they seem to use the skins in a sort of blood magic ritual to glamor the wearer.

No the Faces are a completely different thing their not glamours that can be seen through by anyone.  A glamour is cheap trick a lesser magic the actual thing with the faces involves some deeper magic.  Can't use quotes from the scene that goes into this as it's in Winds. 

Edited by Darksnider05

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
51 minutes ago, dbergkvist said:

An 11 year old cannot look older than 11 through acting.

Come on. Acting, makeup, costuming. Arya learned much of this at the House of Black & White, and with the mummers, has entered graduate school in disguise techniques. Also, as AryaRegina was so kind to note, Raff isn't picky about a child's age.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/5/2020 at 7:54 PM, Quoth the raven, said:

Arya will continue on her path to insanity.  The innocent casualties of her mad desire to kill those whom she feels responsible for her family's losses will continue to pile up.  True that she will kill many of the people who fought against the Starks but it will also be just as true that many innocents who had nothing to do with the Starks will get killed.  Arya will die in the middle of an assassination attempt.  She will die by the sword, like her mother.  She will die in the riverlands, like her mother.  Like her mother, she has turned into something obscene. 

Which is the reason it would be fitting for Gendry to put Arya out of her misery.  At least something good will come out of it.  Gendry will invent his own unique sword but it will require tempering it in Arya.  I do not mean intercourse.  He will have to kill Arya for the magic to work. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 5/7/2020 at 5:55 AM, Roswell said:

Arya crossed the line in killing that man.  It was a hit for personal reasons.  The faceless men are not welcoming her back.  There is nothing left for Arya and Lady Stoneheart except hate and revenge.  My prediction for Arya is very, very different from yours.  She is not getting any kinder.  Her development is going in the opposite the direction of what you predicted.  She will continue to get mentally sicker and what little bit of morality she has left will disappear until she is nothing more than a savage little beast.

He was a bad man for sure.  And probably needed to be executed by some legit authority.  But he was not on the FM's target list.  Is this enough to get Arya kicked out of the death cult?  We will soon find out.  I believe they will give her butt the toe end of the boot but we will have to wait and see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I haven't ruled out Bran as the many faced god of the FM when BR finally expires.  Bran is going to be able to see what's going on in both Westeros and Essos:

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Bran III

He saw Winterfell as the eagles see it, the tall towers looking squat and stubby from above, the castle walls just lines in the dirt. He saw Maester Luwin on his balcony, studying the sky through a polished bronze tube and frowning as he made notes in a book. He saw his brother Robb, taller and stronger than he remembered him, practicing swordplay in the yard with real steel in his hand. He saw Hodor, the simple giant from the stables, carrying an anvil to Mikken's forge, hefting it onto his shoulder as easily as another man might heft a bale of hay. At the heart of the godswood, the great white weirwood brooded over its reflection in the black pool, its leaves rustling in a chill wind. When it felt Bran watching, it lifted its eyes from the still waters and stared back at him knowingly.

He looked east, and saw a galley racing across the waters of the Bite. He saw his mother sitting alone in a cabin, looking at a bloodstained knife on a table in front of her, as the rowers pulled at their oars and Ser Rodrik leaned across a rail, shaking and heaving. A storm was gathering ahead of them, a vast dark roaring lashed by lightning, but somehow they could not see it.

He looked south, and saw the great blue-green rush of the Trident. He saw his father pleading with the king, his face etched with grief. He saw Sansa crying herself to sleep at night, and he saw Arya watching in silence and holding her secrets hard in her heart. There were shadows all around them. One shadow was dark as ash, with the terrible face of a hound. Another was armored like the sun, golden and beautiful. Over them both loomed a giant in armor made of stone, but when he opened his visor, there was nothing inside but darkness and thick black blood.

He lifted his eyes and saw clear across the narrow sea, to the Free Cities and the green Dothraki sea and beyond, to Vaes Dothrak under its mountain, to the fabled lands of the Jade Sea, to Asshai by the Shadow, where dragons stirred beneath the sunrise.

Finally he looked north. He saw the Wall shining like blue crystal, and his bastard brother Jon sleeping alone in a cold bed, his skin growing pale and hard as the memory of all warmth fled from him. And he looked past the Wall, past endless forests cloaked in snow, past the frozen shore and the great blue-white rivers of ice and the dead plains where nothing grew or lived. North and north and north he looked, to the curtain of light at the end of the world, and then beyond that curtain. He looked deep into the heart of winter, and then he cried out, afraid, and the heat of his tears burned on his cheeks.

I don't think it's a stretch for Bran to give Arya her marching orders at some point.  We will have Jon as his agent in Westeros and Arya as his agent in Essos.

I think she will be sewing all through out winter (sticking them with the pointy end):

Quote

A Game of Thrones - Arya I

Jon watched them leave, and Arya watched Jon. His face had grown as still as the pool at the heart of the godswood. Finally he climbed down off the window. "The show is done," he said. He bent to scratch Ghost behind the ears. The white wolf rose and rubbed against him. "You had best run back to your room, little sister. Septa Mordane will surely be lurking. The longer you hide, the sterner the penance. You'll be sewing all through winter. When the spring thaw comes, they will find your body with a needle still locked tight between your frozen fingers."

Ultimately I think Arya's purpose with be more aligned with the original FM and the story we have yet to hear:

Quote

 

A Dance with Dragons - The Blind Girl

She had said as much to the kindly man. "And are you a god, to decide who should live and who should die?" he asked her. "We give the gift to those marked by Him of Many Faces, after prayers and sacrifice. So has it always been, from the beginning. I have told you of the founding of our order, of how the first of us answered the prayers of slaves who wished for death. The gift was given only to those who yearned for it, in the beginning … but one day, the first of us heard a slave praying not for his own death but for his master's. So fervently did he desire this that he offered all he had, that his prayer might be answered. And it seemed to our first brother that this sacrifice would be pleasing to Him of Many Faces, so that night he granted the prayer. Then he went to the slave and said, 'You offered all you had for this man's death, but slaves have nothing but their lives. That is what the god desires of you. For the rest of your days on earth, you will serve him.' And from that moment, we were two." His hand closed around her arm, gently but firmly. "All men must die. We are but death's instruments, not death himself. When you slew the singer, you took god's powers on yourself. We kill men, but we do not presume to judge them. Do you understand?"

No, she thought. "Yes," she said.

"You lie. And that is why you must now walk in darkness until you see the way. Unless you wish to leave us. You need only ask, and you may have your eyes back."

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I apparently have a different view of Arya than many of this forum...
I don't think she's insane, cruel, evil, mean, too far gone, doomed to die, or anything like that, and I genuinely don't understand how anyone got that from reading her chapters, but whatever.

I think she is at heart a sweet and kind girl, who has been through trauma after trauma, she's heartbroken and lonely, and feels like she has nowhere to go. So she stays at the House of Black and White, but only for now.
I think she will leave Braavos soon after the Mercy chapter and return to Westeros. I think she will reunite with the Brotherhood without banners, and meet (and maybe mercy kill) Lady Stoneheart. Then she will reunite with Nymeria, and go North, maybe after another peptalk from the Old Gods. She will give up on her prayer, and instead focus on her remaining family.
I don't believe she will be out swordfighting during the war against the others, she will use her other powers instead, like skinchanging (Nymeria's giant wolfpack being a Chekhov's gun and all that). Maybe she will stay behind to defend Bran/Rickon.

I think in the end she will become a Lady of her own Keep, or maybe Bran's hand,  I believe she will end the story in a position that will help the smallfolk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 minutes ago, AryaRegina said:

I apparently have a different view of Arya than many of this forum...
I don't think she's insane, cruel, evil, mean, too far gone, doomed to die, or anything like that, and I genuinely don't understand how anyone got that from reading her chapters, but whatever.

The people who think this tend to hate anything that's Stark. At least that's what I noticed. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, AryaRegina said:

I apparently have a different view of Arya than many of this forum...
I don't think she's insane, cruel, evil, mean, too far gone, doomed to die, or anything like that, and I genuinely don't understand how anyone got that from reading her chapters, but whatever.

I think she is at heart a sweet and kind girl, who has been through trauma after trauma, she's heartbroken and lonely, and feels like she has nowhere to go. So she stays at the House of Black and White, but only for now.

Don’t worry, many on this forum think like you. She’s not insane, cruel, evil, or too far gone. Far from it. I think Arya is one of the most empathetic characters in the story. Even as a child, she could identify with people different from her, people from a different class and station than herself. She could recognize people for who they are and not as how society defined them. In some ways, you can compare Arya’s arc to that of a child soldier, but that also does not fully explain it. Like a child soldier, she is slowly becoming desensitized to violence. Nevertheless, even now in the books, she still questions and rationalizes her kills, which I don’t think fully conditioned child soldiers would do. Now, I’m not arguing that Arya’s doubts absolve her from her killings, it just shows that she’s not “far gone” as some would like to state/ believe. Arya Stark is still very much part of her personality — her motivation, thoughts, and fears.

Arya loved Ned with all her heart and was fiercely loyal to him, but she wouldn’t give up Jon even to him. Jon is the key to Arya’s journey back to Westeros and her break with the FM. Jon is the key to her finding herself again. She knew Jon would not give up on her even if her mother and Robb did, and she gave up everything to become “no one” except Needle. I know gifting LS mercy is a popular theory when it comes to Arya’s story, but I think it’s Jon or something related to him that will make Arya turn away from anger, pain, and fear, which are the emotions that are driving her now.

Edited by teej6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

The people who think this tend to hate anything that's Stark. At least that's what I noticed. 

Ah makes so much sense now. 

 

1 hour ago, AryaRegina said:

I apparently have a different view of Arya than many of this forum...
I don't think she's insane, cruel, evil, mean, too far gone, doomed to die, or anything like that, and I genuinely don't understand how anyone got that from reading her chapters, but whatever.

I think she is at heart a sweet and kind girl, who has been through trauma after trauma, she's heartbroken and lonely, and feels like she has nowhere to go. So she stays at the House of Black and White, but only for now.
I think she will leave Braavos soon after the Mercy chapter and return to Westeros. I think she will reunite with the Brotherhood without banners, and meet (and maybe mercy kill) Lady Stoneheart. Then she will reunite with Nymeria, and go North, maybe after another peptalk from the Old Gods. She will give up on her prayer, and instead focus on her remaining family.
I don't believe she will be out swordfighting during the war against the others, she will use her other powers instead, like skinchanging (Nymeria's giant wolfpack being a Chekhov's gun and all that). Maybe she will stay behind to defend Bran/Rickon.

I think in the end she will become a Lady of her own Keep, or maybe Bran's hand,  I believe she will end the story in a position that will help the smallfolk.

I agree with almost all of this. Very well said.  :)

How much has she changed from Book 1 in your opinion? Despite all the trauma, beatings, and violence - Arya still feels happiness living the most simple life on that canal as Cat. She isn't alone in the days and when she sleeps she has Nymeria and her wolf pack. Similarly, as Mercy she feels connected to yet another simple life. She's grown a lot in Braavos and going back home will be challenging especially if she has to face her demons. Finding peace a different way than just her List will be a big development for her. Her mother should play role in that shift in Arya. 

Do you think she'll ever see Sandor again? 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Sign in to follow this  

×
×
  • Create New...