Arya's storyline going forward

[butterweedstrover]

14 minutes ago, Targaryen Restoration said:

Jon's night's queen. 

One other thing.  Lyanna was never really a queen.  Not at any time in the story.  Except for the honorary title at Harrenhal.  

Semantics, I doubt she'll end up on the Iron Throne or anywhere near it, but she will be queen as Ned says. 

We can assume Lyanna and Rhaegar pledged themselves together at the heart tree in Harrenhall. Coincidently that is where Jaqen pledges to help Arya in ACOK. 

Look at how they speak about the 'king'. Arya asks: "even a king" to the who she wants killed. 

Jaqen then asks if that King is Joffery and Arya leans in and whispers his name. His accent breaks because he thinks he is found out, but quickly realizes that's not what she meant. 

Reread ACOK and have Gendry represent Robert, Arya represent Lyanna, and Jaqen represent Rhaegar (he has similar features and white hair). 

Gendry wants Arya to stay away from the latter, but Arya in the end chooses the assassin over Gendry. 

 Pate now has a dragon egg in the citadel and is looking to hatch it. When else did this happen? Summerhall. 

Who was inadvertently responsible for Harrenhall? The Ghost of high heart. The same person who sees darkness in Arya because she is now tied to Aegon VI and his goal to repeat Summerhall and try to birth a new dragon as proof of his heritage. 

[Hodor the Articulate]

12 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

why? 

Its all there in the post.

How does Arya go from hearing about Aegon and fArya to "imma be queen now"?

[butterweedstrover]

11 minutes ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

How does Arya go from hearing about Aegon and fArya to "imma be queen now"?

The Ghost of High Heart already told her she is going to be important, and the waif who is Ashara Dayne will fill in the gaps. 

She may not call it 'queen' but she will pursue her rightful place (intentionally or otherwise).

[sweetsunray]

On 5/6/2020 at 6:36 PM, Mithras said:

First of all, the killing of Raff was part of Arya’s job. The FM was commissioned to create a scandal to sabotage the mission of Harys Swyft so that he would be forced to return empty handed. The IB is not willing to extend further loans to Cersei unless she makes payments for the current debts first. However, they cannot openly reject the emissary of the IT. That is bad for business as it might lead the IT to declare moratorium. Therefore, a scandal leading to public outrage against Harys Swyft in Braavos should do the trick. According to the scenario, one of the guards of the emissary will rape and murder a young Braavosi girl and they will make sure to incite the locals against Harys Swyft. The Sealord will intervene and try to calms things down. The IB representatives will “sadly” inform Ser Harys that they cannot give him loans under the current tense situation for fear of reaction from the locals. After the Mercy chapter, the body of the real Mercy will be found raped and murdered. The body of Raff will be found later, seemingly killed in a drunken brawl by some bravos after the vile act. And from there, the scenario will be played accordingly as explained above.

As for Arya, she will be sent to a courtesan to further study spying and politics.

Yup, is what I believe as well for years for the most part.

Not so sure about the body producing though. I don't think that's even necessary. All people will need is that

• Mercy goes missing and doesn't show up at work
• People come upon all the blood in Mercy's room on the bed and the floor

=> People will assume Mercy was (raped and) murdered by a sexual sadist and then her body was dumped into a canal and eaten by eels

• Raff goes missing and doesn't return to the theatre
• His colleague relates how he saw Raff leave with a Braavosi child actress of the description that fits the missing Mercy. He will spill the beans gladly, because he was disgusted with Raff anyway, including how Raff bragged about his days with the Mountain, missed the raping murder days and planned to kill the dwarf actor to gift his head to Cersei

=> The Sealord, Swyft and the colleague will all assume that Raff killed Mercy and deserted his position, possibly to sell his sword somewhere. The tale about Raff gets leaked to the citizens of Braavos. And boom you have angry citizens marching with torches for the harbor to chase those girl-raping-killers out of their city.

Nobody who comes across all that blood in the room and learns about Raff wakling off with her will assume Mercy killed Raff. Mercy is a sweet, pretty little girl, an actress who only plays with fake swords who could not possibly physically overpower Raff and kill him. Raff is a tall, manly man with a history of being part of the most murderous gangs of Westeros and who knows how to use a sword. Even Swyft and his colleague will assume him guilty for the same reasons. Public opinion will see an adult man with such a history as guilty automatically, even without bodies. The blood in the room, two people gone missing, Raff's history and Mercy's appearance and small theatre part of being raped will do the trick well enough.

And the Iron Bank can urge Swyft to leave Braavos ASAP for his own safety, because they cannot guarantee his... without a deal for the loan.

On 5/6/2020 at 6:36 PM, Mithras said:

Meanwhile, Justin Massey will come to Braavos with Jeyne and Theon.

Theon wasn't sent north to CB along with Massey and Jeyne.

On 5/6/2020 at 6:36 PM, Mithras said:

In Braavos Massey will claim fArya for himself and try to secure their future with her Stark name. This is where Arya will finally come and talk to Jeyne.

This I can see happening.

[Mithras]

6 hours ago, sweetsunray said:

Theon wasn't sent north to CB along with Massey and Jeyne.

He will be. The only way to save Theon's life is to have him make his confessions before the heart tree and ask to take the black, which should be granted. This way, Theon might be sent along with Massey's party. On the way to the Castle Black, they will  get worrying news from Castle Black about Jon and the general chaos. Therefore, Massey takes the initiative and decides to directly go to Eastwatch to avoid that mess, which suits him because in his heart, he seems to have abandoned Stannis all together. Theon talks to Jeyne and makes sure that he comes with them, instead of going to the Wall.

[kissdbyfire]

4 minutes ago, Mithras said:

He will be. The only way to save Theon's life is to have him make his confessions before the heart tree and ask to take the black, which should be granted. This way, Theon might be sent along with Massey's party. On the way to the Castle Black, they will  get worrying news from Castle Black about Jon and the general chaos. Therefore, Massey takes the initiative and decides to directly go to Eastwatch to avoid that mess, which suits him because in his heart, he seems to have abandoned Stannis all together. Theon talks to Jeyne and makes sure that he comes with them, instead of going to the Wall.

I don't think it very likely that Massey & co are just going to sit about until Theon is brought before the heart tree. The whole point for Stannis is that they leave before the battle because he needs Tycho Nestoris to reach Braavos. 

The other point is, how would Massey receive word from Castle Black?

[sweetsunray]

2 hours ago, Mithras said:

He will be. The only way to save Theon's life is to have him make his confessions before the heart tree and ask to take the black, which should be granted. This way, Theon might be sent along with Massey's party. On the way to the Castle Black, they will  get worrying news from Castle Black about Jon and the general chaos. Therefore, Massey takes the initiative and decides to directly go to Eastwatch to avoid that mess, which suits him because in his heart, he seems to have abandoned Stannis all together. Theon talks to Jeyne and makes sure that he comes with them, instead of going to the Wall.

A miracle could work as well, as @kissdbyfire has proposed in the past, since aDwD was published and read. With Theon's remorse for what he did, and his childlike wonder about the Old Gods speaking to him and telling his name, ravens knowing his name, and his rather fractured mind, he might voluntarily allow Bran to skinchange him and reveal the secret ways in and around Winterfell that only Bran knows about. Stannis would require Theon to remain alive to guide him (while skinchanged) to infiltrate the castle. Hence, his absence in the Pink Letter and the assumption that Theon journeyed to the Wall along with Jeyne Poole.

As @kissdbyfire pointed out - Massey, Alysanne and Jeyne were sent to accompany Tycho, well before the battle. Theon was not. Stannis won't let Massey waiting.

[kissdbyfire]

6 minutes ago, sweetsunray said:

Massey, Alysanne and Jeyne were sent to accompany Tycho, well before the battle. Theon was not. Stannis won't let Massey waiting.

I have just reread the passage. Stannis tells Massey to take 6 men and 12 horses and go w/ Tycho, Alysane, and Jeyne to EbtS by way of CB to deliver Jeyne. I think we don't know how early in the morning this takes place, but Stannis tells Massey he must leave before midday. So, really, Massey & co will be gone within a few hours tops. 

[Darth Sidious]

17 hours ago, butterweedstrover said:

The Ghost of High Heart already told her she is going to be important, and the waif who is Ashara Dayne will fill in the gaps. 

She may not call it 'queen' but she will pursue her rightful place (intentionally or otherwise).

Arya has never been a queen of anything.  The Ghost of High Heart was repulsed by Arya and predicted a very dark future for her.  

[Darth Sidious]

On 5/17/2020 at 3:40 AM, Stormourne said:

Arya will survive, most likely. And she may be scarred for life, but with family, she will slowly heal and perhaps find happiness in the future. Even child soldiers can be saved and lead a good life, so long as they have a strong support structure going forward.

I just want her to live and find closure.

So you want her to get away without punishment for the murders of the insurance man?  I don't want Arya to get away with anything.  She does not have to die but she should be incarcerated and not get a happily ever after.

[butterweedstrover]

2 minutes ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

Arya has never been a queen of anything.  The Ghost of High Heart was repulsed by Arya and predicted a very dark future for her.  

Yeah, cause she is going to be responcible for summerhall 2.0, the thing TGHH helped start in the first place. 

Ned said she'll be queen, though that word is ambiguous. 

 

[Darth Sidious]

Just now, butterweedstrover said:

Yeah, cause she is going to be responcible for summerhall 2.0, the thing TGHH helped start in the first place. 

Ned said she'll be queen, though that word is ambiguous. 

 

Ned is not a prophet though.  I am not saying it's impossible.  But it does not make sense in the overall story and it's something that I would be sad to have happen.

[butterweedstrover]

10 minutes ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

Ned is not a prophet though.  I am not saying it's impossible.  But it does not make sense in the overall story and it's something that I would be sad to have happen.

I'll give you this, I don't think she will end up as queen of the seven kingdoms. 

Bran will be king according to GRRM and that story line is separate from Arya's. 

But I do think she will be the partner of the king, Aegon VI. 

Like I said Aegon is planning to crack a dragon egg (Summerhall 2.0) and Arya has befriended him in Harrenhall. The TGHH saw her visions after they had befriended each other, and remember Aegon pledged to help her kneeling under the heart tree in Harrenhall. 

Lyanna never became queen, but she partnered with the crowned prince. I think something similar will happen with Arya.  

[kissdbyfire]

@Mithras, another issue is that the assassination attempt on Jon’s life occurs ~ 10 days after TWoW Theon I. No one in CB knows Massey & co are headed there, and consequently they can’t “send word”, however they’d accomplish that. The only way would be for someone at the Wall sending a rider w/ the info to Stannis, and Stannis sending a rider back to look for the group to inform them. All hugely unlikely IMO, and I’m not even factoring in the horrible weather. 

[Darth Sidious]

On 8/23/2020 at 5:36 PM, butterweedstrover said:

I'll give you this, I don't think she will end up as queen of the seven kingdoms. 

Bran will be king according to GRRM and that story line is separate from Arya's. 

But I do think she will be the partner of the king, Aegon VI. 

Like I said Aegon is planning to crack a dragon egg (Summerhall 2.0) and Arya has befriended him in Harrenhall. The TGHH saw her visions after they had befriended each other, and remember Aegon pledged to help her kneeling under the heart tree in Harrenhall. 

Lyanna never became queen, but she partnered with the crowned prince. I think something similar will happen with Arya.  

I somehow do not think any of this will happen.  Arya, if anything, will end up as a direwolf.  Jon's pack mate.  There is only one person who can hatch dragon eggs.  She is not Aegon.  

Maybe Lyanna was Rhaegar's mistress for a time.  But that would make her at best a princess.  

[Mithras]

On 8/23/2020 at 8:04 PM, kissdbyfire said:

I don't think it very likely that Massey & co are just going to sit about until Theon is brought before the heart tree. The whole point for Stannis is that they leave before the battle because he needs Tycho Nestoris to reach Braavos. 

The other point is, how would Massey receive word from Castle Black?

Two things:

1. Massey wont leave instantly. There needs to be preperations before such a journey. Even if Stannis wants them gone ASAP, that doesn't mean it will be so.

2. Stannis will command the execution of Theon very soon. He already learned the intel he needs from Theon about the Bolton army. He wants to use the burning of Theon for improving the morale in the army. That needs to happen fast, especially with the Karstark treachery revelation which caused discontent in the camp.

Therefore, I am thinking that while Massey is still taking care of the provosions for the journey several hours after he leaves the room, Theon will be brought before the weirwood tree and he will be saved as I mentioned. 

As for the chronology, Massey's scouts will be taking them through mountain paths instead of the Kingsroad for fear of Ramsay coming after them. This will make their journey slower. By the time they come close enough to Castle Black (such as Moles Town), they will get rumours about what is happening at Castle Black. Massey will declare that it would be too risky to go to Castle Black and leave fArya there under these circumstances, though Theon will know that Massey desires to abandon Stannis and take fArya for himself. That is how they will all go to Eastwatch and Braavos, without seeing Jon.

[kissdbyfire]

3 hours ago, Mithras said:

Two things:

1. Massey wont leave instantly. There needs to be preperations before such a journey. Even if Stannis wants them gone ASAP, that doesn't mean it will be so.

I don’t know about this. Stannis was pretty clear, he wants them gone before midday. I agree that they’ll need provisions and some time to get ready, but I think that can be accomplished rather quickly. The main point is that Tycho Nestoris can’t be there once the fighting starts, and that is why I think their departure will happen fairly quickly. I do think the first wave of the attack on Stannis is going to happen soon, but I think it happens the day after Theon I, not on the same day. Still, Stannis can’t risk Tycho (and the others) still being there b/c then the whole mission to Braavos falls apart, and I’m pretty certain it won’t. 

3 hours ago, Mithras said:

2. Stannis will command the execution of Theon very soon. He already learned the intel he needs from Theon about the Bolton army. He wants to use the burning of Theon for improving the morale in the army. That needs to happen fast, especially with the Karstark treachery revelation which caused discontent in the camp.

I’m not so sure Stannis is done with Theon. As to burning Theon, I’m even less sure. For instance, Stannis tells the Karstarks that if they confess, they’ll have a quick and clean death, like Robb gave Rickard Karstark. He only threatens burning them if they don’t confess. When he’s done w/ them he sends them away w/o making a decision on how they’ll die, even if they haven’t confessed. He may still burn them, but that is left for later. There’s no reason for him to burn Theon. Theon cooperated, unlike the Karstarks. But more than that, we have Asha asking Stannis to execute Theon as Eddard would, but also the fact that Stannis’s host has more than twice the number of northerners than southrons. So burning Theon wouldn’t really be a boost in morale, and might even have the opposite effect. We also have the quote below.

ADwD, The King’s Prize

That tale she had from Justin Massey, who was less devout than most. "A sacrifice will prove our faith still burns true, Sire," Clayton Suggs had told the king. And Godry the Giantslayer said, "The old gods of the north have sent this storm upon us. Only R'hllor can end it. We must give him an unbeliever."

"Half my army is made up of unbelievers," Stannis had replied. "I will have no burnings. Pray harder."

3 hours ago, Mithras said:

Therefore, I am thinking that while Massey is still taking care of the provosions for the journey several hours after he leaves the room, Theon will be brought before the weirwood tree and he will be saved as I mentioned. 

I think there will be some hours between Massey leaving the tower and departing, but not too many. My guess is ~ 4 hours. Day is breaking as Massey leaves the tower; given that it’s winter-ish and weather etc, that should be around 8am if not a little later. I think that’s enough time for Massey & co to get ready and depart near midday. 

I’m not sure what you mean when you say Stannis plans on burning Theon by the heart tree. As I said, the northerners outnumber the southerners, and burning by/at the heart tree would be adding insult to injury imo. 

I do think Theon will be brought before the heart tree to be executed northern style, and will be saved, but differently. 

 

[Mithras]

6 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I don’t know about this. Stannis was pretty clear, he wants them gone before midday. I agree that they’ll need provisions and some time to get ready, but I think that can be accomplished rather quickly. The main point is that Tycho Nestoris can’t be there once the fighting starts, and that is why I think their departure will happen fairly quickly. 

I agree. Stannis wants to be done with everything before the battle starts and that includes Theon's execution as well.

6 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I’m not so sure Stannis is done with Theon. As to burning Theon, I’m even less sure. For instance, Stannis tells the Karstarks that if they confess, they’ll have a quick and clean death, like Robb gave Rickard Karstark. He only threatens burning them if they don’t confess. When he’s done w/ them he sends them away w/o making a decision on how they’ll die, even if they haven’t confessed. He may still burn them, but that is left for later. There’s no reason for him to burn Theon. Theon cooperated, unlike the Karstarks. But more than that, we have Asha asking Stannis to execute Theon as Eddard would, but also the fact that Stannis’s host has more than twice the number of northerners than southrons. So burning Theon wouldn’t really be a boost in morale, and might even have the opposite effect. We also have the quote below.

ADwD, The King’s Prize

That tale she had from Justin Massey, who was less devout than most. "A sacrifice will prove our faith still burns true, Sire," Clayton Suggs had told the king. And Godry the Giantslayer said, "The old gods of the north have sent this storm upon us. Only R'hllor can end it. We must give him an unbeliever."

"Half my army is made up of unbelievers," Stannis had replied. "I will have no burnings. Pray harder."

Stannis definitely wants to burn Theon.

"We have a warmer end in mind for you, turncloak. But not until we're done with you."

...

“That is how I deal with betrayal, turncloak,” Stannis informed Theon.

...

“There is not enough gold on all your Iron Islands. Your brother's hands are soaked with blood. Farring is urging me to give him to R’hllor.”

“Clayton Suggs as well, I do not doubt.”

“Him, Corliss Penny, all the rest. Even Ser Richard here, who only loves the Lord of Light when it suits his purposes.”

“The red god’s choir only knows a single song.”

“So long as the song is pleasing in god's ears, let them sing. Lord Bolton’s men will be here sooner than we would wish. Only Mors Umber stands between us, and your brother tells me his levies are made up entirely of green boys. Men like to know their god is with them when they go to battle.”

“Not all your men worship the same god.”

“I am aware of this. I am not the fool my brother was.”

"Theon is my mother’s last surviving son. When his brothers died, it shattered her. His death will crush what remains of her... but I have not come to beg you for his life.”

“Wise. I am sorry for your mother, but I do not spare the lives of turncloaks. This one, especially. He slew two sons of Eddard Stark. Every northman in my service would abandon me if I showed him any clemency. Your brother must die.”

6 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

I’m not sure what you mean when you say Stannis plans on burning Theon by the heart tree. As I said, the northerners outnumber the southerners, and burning by/at the heart tree would be adding insult to injury imo. 

Stannis will make Theon's execution in such a way to please both faiths, perhaps something similar to Victarion and the slave girls. But regardless, Theon will confess before the heart tree and ask to take the black. I don't think a miraculous tree/bird talking Theon out of death would seem neat. That would be too deux ex machina.

As for the "pray harder" line, that is a very common misinterpretation of the text by Stannis fans. Whenever this quote is brought up, I ask them why do they cut at pray harder and omit the next few lines. That quote is meant to convey the complete opposite meaning of what Stannis fans want us believe.

[BalerionTheCat]

1 hour ago, Mithras said:

That would be too deux ex machina

We had enough talking birds. It would not be a deus ex Machina.

Stannis and his pals are not Old Gods believers. But there is plenty of northerners who would take heed of the birds. Also, I believe Theon is still necessary. A liaison for Bran (his mouth south of the Wall). For reforming the Ironborn (Asha is just Victarion with tits). Also, IMO, Theon's story is not done. He is just starting to recover from Ramsay.

[kissdbyfire]

2 hours ago, Mithras said:

I agree. Stannis wants to be done with everything before the battle starts and that includes Theon's execution as well.

Maybe. 

Quote

Stannis definitely wants to burn Theon.

"We have a warmer end in mind for you, turncloak. But not until we're done with you."

...

“That is how I deal with betrayal, turncloak,” Stannis informed Theon.

...

“There is not enough gold on all your Iron Islands. Your brother's hands are soaked with blood. Farring is urging me to give him to R’hllor.”

“Clayton Suggs as well, I do not doubt.”

“Him, Corliss Penny, all the rest. Even Ser Richard here, who only loves the Lord of Light when it suits his purposes.”

“The red god’s choir only knows a single song.”

“So long as the song is pleasing in god's ears, let them sing. Lord Bolton’s men will be here sooner than we would wish. Only Mors Umber stands between us, and your brother tells me his levies are made up entirely of green boys. Men like to know their god is with them when they go to battle.”

“Not all your men worship the same god.”

“I am aware of this. I am not the fool my brother was.”

"Theon is my mother’s last surviving son. When his brothers died, it shattered her. His death will crush what remains of her... but I have not come to beg you for his life.”

“Wise. I am sorry for your mother, but I do not spare the lives of turncloaks. This one, especially. He slew two sons of Eddard Stark. Every northman in my service would abandon me if I showed him any clemency. Your brother must die.”

Stannis will make Theon's execution in such a way to please both faiths, perhaps something similar to Victarion and the slave girls. But regardless, Theon will confess before the heart tree and ask to take the black. I don't think a miraculous tree/bird talking Theon out of death would seem neat. That would be too deux ex machina.

I don’t think it can be done, the  trees don’t like fire. And it won’t be the heart tree or the ravens talking, but Bran, through Theon. 
 

ETA: ASoS, Arya VIII

“Nay,” said the dwarf. “You’re not. The black fish holds the rivers now. If it’s the mother you want, seek her at the Twins. For there’s to be a wedding.” She cackled again. “Look in your fires, pink priest, and you will see. Not now, though, not here, you’ll see nothing here. This place belongs to the old gods still . . . they linger here as I do, shrunken and feeble but not yet dead. Nor do they love the flames. For the oak recalls the acorn, the acorn dreams the oak, the stump lives in them both. And they remember when the First Men came with fire in their fists.”

Quote

As for the "pray harder" line, that is a very common misinterpretation of the text by Stannis fans. Whenever this quote is brought up, I ask them why do they cut at pray harder and omit the next few lines. That quote is meant to convey the complete opposite meaning of what Stannis fans want us believe.

IMO it makes sense to break there because that is the part where we get Stannis talking, the next few lines are Asha’s thoughts. 
I can say the exact same thing by the way... you quoted a huge chunk of TWoW Theon I, but cut it immediately before the main point: 

  "Then do the deed yourself, Your Grace."  The chill in Asha's voice made Theon shiver in his chains.  "Take him out across the lake to the islet where the weirwood grows, and strike his head off with that sorcerous sword you bear.  That is how Eddard Stark would have done it.  Theon slew Lord Eddard's sons.  Give him to Lord Eddard's gods.  The old gods of the north.  Give him to the tree."