Jump to content

Did Renly even need to declare himself King?


Angel Eyes

Recommended Posts

On 5/11/2020 at 9:52 PM, Lord Varys said:

Legitimizing Edric would have caused troubles, too, .

True, but everything in this situation would, that is why a Great Council would be required. To hear the claims and let the realm decide.

9 hours ago, Back door hodor said:

If Renly doesn't crown himself there would be no marriage with Margery, no Tyrells means no rebellion for Renly.

That seems to be true.  Obviously Mace is not going to be as pissed as Walder Frey, but he's also not going to be happy with a bait and switch with Renly putting aside his crown and supporting Stannis as King.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If we're going to judge Westeros relationships by modern standards, literally every relationship is unequal and abusive. Husbands have complete power over their wives. The Targaryen dynasty  is just a long history of child abuse and 'grooming' considering sibling dynamics. That means seemingly sweet love stories like Baelon and Alyssa were actually abusive and problematic. No relationship is 'consensual' by modern standards - even seemingly healthy ones like Asha and Qarl have a huge power imbalance. How bleak.

Saying this way too late but I'm just bringing it up because I don't like double standards and don't want misinformation to be spread. It's blatantly untrue that Dunk and Egg have roughly the same age difference as Loras and Renly, Dunk was about 13 years older than Egg, while Renly was older than Loras by 4 or 5 years, and I don't think a 4-5 year age difference is a big deal in a world where Roose, who's in his 40s and Fat Walda, who's 15 have one of the better and more functional marriages in the series. Lord-squire relationships also do not resemble teacher-student relationships, for an example look at  Robb and Olyvar Frey or Tyrion and Pod. 

In short, it's pointless to speculate since only GRRM knows, so people can read this as one of the few positive relationships in the story if they want to (though they can also not, if they want to) and since no indication is given of how the relationship started, offer their own headcanons. 

The pornography was meant as further insight into Renly's character, someone who thought books were for "maesters", not as an indicator of anything shady going on.

*This post brought to you by Renly Baratheon Defense Squad.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...
On 5/9/2020 at 5:19 AM, Lord Varys said:

Most likely not. After all, there were things going on in Renly's chambers in the Red Keep which needed his servants to be tight-mouthed. Loras didn't live at the Red Keep, though.

But we don't know because the author never cared to elaborate.

Wrong. Loras lived at KL. That's why everyone from Cersei to Jaime to Gregor and his friends to Oberyn know about him and Renly. 

That's why Littlefinger knew him extremely well.

That's why Tobho Mott says Loras is a regular customer. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

in a storm of swords, Olenna has a chat with Sansa and declares her son Mace Tyrell an oaf and a fool for crowning Renly. so in short. it wasn't Renly who declared himself king he was declared and crowned by Mace.  did he need to? no. but since Mace did it, also no, not right away. but he wanted his grandson via Margery to be king. Mace  crowning him "King Renly", would make an enemy of his brother Stannis, the Baratheon's of Kings Landing and the Lannisters as well, to secure his position. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

On 7/28/2020 at 10:25 PM, Thunder Bunny-3000 said:

in a storm of swords, Olenna has a chat with Sansa and declares her son Mace Tyrell an oaf and a fool for crowning Renly. so in short. it wasn't Renly who declared himself king he was declared and crowned by Mace.  did he need to? no. but since Mace did it, also no, not right away. but he wanted his grandson via Margery to be king. Mace  crowning him "King Renly", would make an enemy of his brother Stannis, the Baratheon's of Kings Landing and the Lannisters as well, to secure his position. 

Yet short of magic Mace Tyrell's plan was mathematically the most likely to succeed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

On 7/29/2020 at 3:25 AM, Thunder Bunny-3000 said:

in a storm of swords, Olenna has a chat with Sansa and declares her son Mace Tyrell an oaf and a fool for crowning Renly. so in short. it wasn't Renly who declared himself king he was declared and crowned by Mace.  did he need to? no. but since Mace did it, also no, not right away. but he wanted his grandson via Margery to be king. Mace  crowning him "King Renly", would make an enemy of his brother Stannis, the Baratheon's of Kings Landing and the Lannisters as well, to secure his position. 

Renly was an enemy of the King's Landing Baratheons/Lannisters regardless. He fled KL for fear of arrest by Cersei's order the night Robert died, and would never have obeyed Joff's summons to prominent lords to swear fealty, as he would likely have never known freedom again.

In choosing not to pay homage to Joffrey, he had a choice between sitting in Storms End with his household until the Crown rooted him out, fleeing into exile, or calling his banners to defend himself. That is the likely reason for his raising an army, not for a crown or for the incest (which he was ignorant about until much later).

There is an assumption that Renly decided to be a king then went to war to fulfill that goal. I say the order was reversed; he was planning for war (with a probable goal of weakening the Lannisters and replacing Cersei as Regent for King Joff), then saw the size of the host at his command and let that get to his head. It would fit with what he said to Cat as the reason he was worthy to be king.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Archived

This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...