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King Adrian Storm

Why Daenerys will never win the Game of Thrones

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To start out, I have nothing against Dany. I don't have a problem with her character, but she isn't going to end on top. She will never be accepted in Westeros. A big part of her arc is about her trying to find Home, but Westeros is not the place she should be looking. Westeros is not her home, and never will be. The beauty of her arc to me, is Grrm set up the princess on her journey to reclaim the throne that was stolen from her as a child like the lion king, except she isn't going to win in the end. A few reasons why:

1.  She's a foreign invader to them. The people of Westeros aren't waiting for the day that their rightful heir returns to save them, like Viserys said. Dany is going to role up to Westeros with 3 dragons, she can't fully control, an army of dothraki, which cause a lot of damage to innocent people and like to rape and enslave people, and the unsullied.

2. She's already failed at leading Mereen. ADWD is all about Daenerys leading a city in preparation to Westeros. And what does she do? She fails miserably. Her own kingdom has turned against her. 2 of her dragons are set loose over the city, and she's captured by the dothraki.  This book shows how just because Jon and Dany are "heroic" characters they aren't meant to lead. Similar to Robert Baratheon. If Dany can't lead a city, how can she manage to lead 7 kingdoms.

3. Her allies. Tyrion is the most notorious man in Westeros at the moment. A kinslayer who was sentenced to death, and escaped by killing his father. Jorah was exiled from Westeros for selling slaves. Barristan although a good man, was demoted from the kingsguard, and killed 2/3 men before escaping to Essos. And on top of that she'll have the red priests backing her up, and we know how much Westeros loves red priests.

4. She will have no friends in Westeros. Who is going to support Daenerys? Dorne is siding with Aegon, and after her dragons burning Quentin, they are definitely not going to side with her. She literally hasn't met anyone in Westeros besides 2 people Jorah and Barristan. Why would anyone trust her, I think she will accept no one wants her in the south and try to gain support from the North, but in the end, the North wants its own independence, so I doubt they'll fight to get her on the throne.

5. She will be more ruthless going forward. ADWD ended with Dany deciding to be a dragon. She's going to burn the Khals, return to Mereen burn all of her enemies, and probably pass by a few more cities along the way, and burn them down as well. This is the only thing that works for Daenerys. How did Dany get her dragons? A fire ritual. How did she get the unsullied? Burning the slave masters. What happened when she locked up her dragons? Her city tried to assassinate her. Do you think she'll stop using her dragons when she gets to Westeros? No. Why would she when it's the only thing that's working for her? She'll burn down castles and armies, and everyone will fear her or turn against her.

Daenerys wasn't meant to rule. She may save the world from the Others, but she won't be queen.

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20 minutes ago, King Adrian Storm said:

To start out, I have nothing against Dany. I don't have a problem with her character, but she isn't going to end on top. She will never be accepted in Westeros. A big part of her arc is about her trying to find Home, but Westeros is not the place she should be looking. Westeros is not her home, and never will be. The beauty of her arc to me, is Grrm set up the princess on her journey to reclaim the throne that was stolen from her as a child like the lion king, except she isn't going to win in the end. A few reasons why:

1.  She's a foreign invader to them. The people of Westeros aren't waiting for the day that their rightful heir returns to save them, like Viserys said. Dany is going to role up to Westeros with 3 dragons, she can't fully control, an army of dothraki, which cause a lot of damage to innocent people and like to rape and enslave people, and the unsullied.

2. She's already failed at leading Mereen. ADWD is all about Daenerys leading a city in preparation to Westeros. And what does she do? She fails miserably. Her own kingdom has turned against her. 2 of her dragons are set loose over the city, and she's captured by the dothraki.  This book shows how just because Jon and Dany are "heroic" characters they aren't meant to lead. Similar to Robert Baratheon. If Dany can't lead a city, how can she manage to lead 7 kingdoms.

3. Her allies. Tyrion is the most notorious man in Westeros at the moment. A kinslayer who was sentenced to death, and escaped by killing his father. Jorah was exiled from Westeros for selling slaves. Barristan although a good man, was demoted from the kingsguard, and killed 2/3 men before escaping to Essos. And on top of that she'll have the red priests backing her up, and we know how much Westeros loves red priests.

4. She will have no friends in Westeros. Who is going to support Daenerys? Dorne is siding with Aegon, and after her dragons burning Quentin, they are definitely not going to side with her. She literally hasn't met anyone in Westeros besides 2 people Jorah and Barristan. Why would anyone trust her, I think she will accept no one wants her in the south and try to gain support from the North, but in the end, the North wants its own independence, so I doubt they'll fight to get her on the throne.

5. She will be more ruthless going forward. ADWD ended with Dany deciding to be a dragon. She's going to burn the Khals, return to Mereen burn all of her enemies, and probably pass by a few more cities along the way, and burn them down as well. This is the only thing that works for Daenerys. How did Dany get her dragons? A fire ritual. How did she get the unsullied? Burning the slave masters. What happened when she locked up her dragons? Her city tried to assassinate her. Do you think she'll stop using her dragons when she gets to Westeros? No. Why would she when it's the only thing that's working for her? She'll burn down castles and armies, and everyone will fear her or turn against her.

Daenerys wasn't meant to rule. She may save the world from the Others, but she won't be queen.

About 10% - 15% of her kingdom has turned against her.  There is an unfortunate tendency to view the slave owners as the "authentic" Meereenese and the freedmen as somehow irrelevant.   They are not.

Most of her character arc in ADWD is that she tries diplomacy, and it blows up in her face.

But, I don't think ruling the Seven Kingdoms would be a good ending for her.  She would not like the job, and she probably would not be good at it.  The ideal ending for her would be if she found the House with the Red Door.

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6 hours ago, SeanF said:

About 10% - 15% of her kingdom has turned against her.  There is an unfortunate tendency to view the slave owners as the "authentic" Meereenese and the freedmen as somehow irrelevant.   They are not.

Most of her character arc in ADWD is that she tries diplomacy, and it blows up in her face.

But, I don't think ruling the Seven Kingdoms would be a good ending for her.  She would not like the job, and she probably would not be good at it.  The ideal ending for her would be if she found the House with the Red Door.

:agree:

Irt the bold, I’m not sure she wouldn’t be good at it... she’s still very young and still has a lot to learn, same as all the other main characters. But I think the more important part may be that she doesn’t actually want that, but hasn’t realised it yet. She spent her whole childhood listening to all the stories that moron Viserys told her, and she’s in no small part going by that. And I again agree 100% on the house w/ the red door. 

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Dany seems to want a simple life, rather than to actually be queen. She goes as far as to think that she would give up her crown if Daario asked her to. The house with the red door and a simple life is what will make her happy. 

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Once the Long Night invades Westeros ... everyone would want Daenerys, House Targaryen and their fire dragons back.
If she wants the Iron Throne, they will give it to her after she succeeds.
She can always elect a Hand to do all the governing.

Besides, who else would the citizens of Westeros want? Some kid/tree hybrid for their Long-Night-savior and kingdom ruler? I can't see that happening.

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5 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

Irt the bold, I’m not sure she wouldn’t be good at it... she’s still very young and still has a lot to learn, same as all the other main characters. But I think the more important part may be that she doesn’t actually want that, but hasn’t realised it yet. She spent her whole childhood listening to all the stories that moron Viserys told her, and she’s in no small part going by that. And I again agree 100% on the house w/ the red door. 

100% agree what Dany really needs and longs for is security, genuine love based on her as a person, acceptance and safety. Basically a secure place to call home with people, who'll genuinely love her for her self- and IMO she subconsciously thinks, she'll find that in Westeros.

But since she has never truly gotten any of those things in the past, it is hard for her to identify that that's what she wants

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6 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

:agree:

Irt the bold, I’m not sure she wouldn’t be good at it... she’s still very young and still has a lot to learn, same as all the other main characters. But I think the more important part may be that she doesn’t actually want that, but hasn’t realised it yet. She spent her whole childhood listening to all the stories that moron Viserys told her, and she’s in no small part going by that. And I again agree 100% on the house w/ the red door. 

She feels very responsible for others.  She could have enjoyed a life of wealthy obscurity in the free cities, had she followed Ser Jorah's suggestion at the end of the first book, but that would have meant abandoning over a hundred women, children, and old people to their fate.  Ruling is very much a duty to her, rather than something she really enjoys.

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7 hours ago, The Map Guy said:

Once the Long Night invades Westeros ... everyone would want Daenerys, House Targaryen and their fire dragons back.
If she wants the Iron Throne, they will give it to her after she succeeds.
She can always elect a Hand to do all the governing.

Besides, who else would the citizens of Westeros want? Some kid/tree hybrid for their Long-Night-savior and kingdom ruler? I can't see that happening.

Correct.  They also would not want Snowflake, the lord commander who betrayed his brothers at the Wall and thus allowed the White Walkers to break through the defense.  

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On 5/8/2020 at 7:34 PM, King Adrian Storm said:

1.  She's a foreign invader to them. The people of Westeros aren't waiting for the day that their rightful heir returns to save them, like Viserys said. Dany is going to role up to Westeros with 3 dragons, she can't fully control, an army of dothraki, which cause a lot of damage to innocent people and like to rape and enslave people, and the unsullied.

We don't know how all that will play out yet, though. Imo if she can't control the dragons/dothraki she'll die in Mereen or the dothraki sea so if she goes to westeros neither of that will be an issue.

On 5/8/2020 at 7:34 PM, King Adrian Storm said:

2. She's already failed at leading Mereen. ADWD is all about Daenerys leading a city in preparation to Westeros. And what does she do? She fails miserably. Her own kingdom has turned against her. 2 of her dragons are set loose over the city, and she's captured by the dothraki.  This book shows how just because Jon and Dany are "heroic" characters they aren't meant to lead. Similar to Robert Baratheon. If Dany can't lead a city, how can she manage to lead 7 kingdoms.

Her meeting the dothraki didn't go as it did in the abomination.. granted it might play out the same, but its not a certainty. She is a teenager who killed major parts of the slave trade as well as stay and try to not leave chaos behind and people contorts it to "failure". I'm not saying she hasn't failed ever, just that her rule might be the most utilitarian outcome given the circumstances.

On 5/8/2020 at 7:34 PM, King Adrian Storm said:

3. Her allies. Tyrion is the most notorious man in Westeros at the moment. A kinslayer who was sentenced to death, and escaped by killing his father. Jorah was exiled from Westeros for selling slaves. Barristan although a good man, was demoted from the kingsguard, and killed 2/3 men before escaping to Essos. And on top of that she'll have the red priests backing her up, and we know how much Westeros loves red priests.

Fair points.

On 5/8/2020 at 7:34 PM, King Adrian Storm said:

4. She will have no friends in Westeros. Who is going to support Daenerys? Dorne is siding with Aegon, and after her dragons burning Quentin, they are definitely not going to side with her. She literally hasn't met anyone in Westeros besides 2 people Jorah and Barristan. Why would anyone trust her, I think she will accept no one wants her in the south and try to gain support from the North, but in the end, the North wants its own independence, so I doubt they'll fight to get her on the throne.

It is possible fAegon dies before they can meet and by then the Martell's cant very well side with Cersei.

What I do know is that Cersei and her children aren't generally well regarded and in world wisdom says that lords will join the side they believe will win.

On 5/8/2020 at 7:34 PM, King Adrian Storm said:

5. She will be more ruthless going forward. ADWD ended with Dany deciding to be a dragon. She's going to burn the Khals, return to Mereen burn all of her enemies, and probably pass by a few more cities along the way, and burn them down as well. This is the only thing that works for Daenerys. How did Dany get her dragons? A fire ritual. How did she get the unsullied? Burning the slave masters. What happened when she locked up her dragons? Her city tried to assassinate her. Do you think she'll stop using her dragons when she gets to Westeros? No. Why would she when it's the only thing that's working for her? She'll burn down castles and armies, and everyone will fear her or turn against her.

Or join her as per above. 

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On 5/8/2020 at 1:34 PM, King Adrian Storm said:

To start out, I have nothing against Dany. I don't have a problem with her character, but she isn't going to end on top. She will never be accepted in Westeros. A big part of her arc is about her trying to find Home, but Westeros is not the place she should be looking. Westeros is not her home, and never will be. The beauty of her arc to me, is Grrm set up the princess on her journey to reclaim the throne that was stolen from her as a child like the lion king, except she isn't going to win in the end. A few reasons why:

1.  She's a foreign invader to them. The people of Westeros aren't waiting for the day that their rightful heir returns to save them, like Viserys said. Dany is going to role up to Westeros with 3 dragons, she can't fully control, an army of dothraki, which cause a lot of damage to innocent people and like to rape and enslave people, and the unsullied.

2. She's already failed at leading Mereen. ADWD is all about Daenerys leading a city in preparation to Westeros. And what does she do? She fails miserably. Her own kingdom has turned against her. 2 of her dragons are set loose over the city, and she's captured by the dothraki.  This book shows how just because Jon and Dany are "heroic" characters they aren't meant to lead. Similar to Robert Baratheon. If Dany can't lead a city, how can she manage to lead 7 kingdoms.

3. Her allies. Tyrion is the most notorious man in Westeros at the moment. A kinslayer who was sentenced to death, and escaped by killing his father. Jorah was exiled from Westeros for selling slaves. Barristan although a good man, was demoted from the kingsguard, and killed 2/3 men before escaping to Essos. And on top of that she'll have the red priests backing her up, and we know how much Westeros loves red priests.

4. She will have no friends in Westeros. Who is going to support Daenerys? Dorne is siding with Aegon, and after her dragons burning Quentin, they are definitely not going to side with her. She literally hasn't met anyone in Westeros besides 2 people Jorah and Barristan. Why would anyone trust her, I think she will accept no one wants her in the south and try to gain support from the North, but in the end, the North wants its own independence, so I doubt they'll fight to get her on the throne.

5. She will be more ruthless going forward. ADWD ended with Dany deciding to be a dragon. She's going to burn the Khals, return to Mereen burn all of her enemies, and probably pass by a few more cities along the way, and burn them down as well. This is the only thing that works for Daenerys. How did Dany get her dragons? A fire ritual. How did she get the unsullied? Burning the slave masters. What happened when she locked up her dragons? Her city tried to assassinate her. Do you think she'll stop using her dragons when she gets to Westeros? No. Why would she when it's the only thing that's working for her? She'll burn down castles and armies, and everyone will fear her or turn against her.

Daenerys wasn't meant to rule. She may save the world from the Others, but she won't be queen.

1.  The people of Westeros will be so desperate after all the mismanagement from the Starks, Lannisters, Baratheons, and Greyjoys cause enough suffering and hardship.  They will welcome a Targaryen Queen who can promise order.  Many will welcome the return of the dragons.  The Great Lords must be brought to heel for the good of the people.  The Unsullied are not rapists and they do not pillage.  If you want to conquer and still maintain good public relations, use an army of Unsullied.  The Dothraki are not likely to come to Westeros.  They will be needed to enforce the law against slavery in Essos. 

2.  You are wrong about Meereen.  The process of reform takes time and it is a work in progress.  Millions of slaves are free, thanks to Daenerys Targaryen.  The problems in Meereen are caused by the slavers who refuse to stop their evil ways.  All of the problems would have gone away if they had cooperated willingly from the start. 

3.  How do you know they will be allies?  That's the show.  The books have not made them allies.  Yes, Tyrion has done some things which may serve her interests but he is not in her service.  It is more likely for him to go to Westeros with his new mercenary friends without Daenerys.  Daenerys is the most effective leader among her contemporaries (Robb, Jon, Joffrey, Arrianne, Aegon).  This has been proven.  She led her khalasar across the desert and into safety.  The decision to send Belwas against Zo Phal was brilliant and proof of her ability to make great decisions under pressure.  She's the best.

4.  She will have friends in Westeros.  They've got their heads in the game of thrones right now but all of that will change as soon as the first flakes of winter comes down in the river lands.  The Westeros debt with the Iron Bank will make it impossible to borrow more money to buy food from overseas.  Guess who will have control of the people who actually do the farming and fishing overseas?  Whoever has the Dothraki in their pocket.  Westeros will be reduced to begging for food unless they can find a powerful ally overseas. 

5.  Daenerys has used her power and authority more responsibly than her contemporaries.  She could have gone on to Westeros but instead she chose to help the slaves.  She owed them nothing and yet she is willing to delay the return to her own lands, the lands that rightfully belong to her, in order to help give them freedom.  Aegon chose to look the other way and pursue his own ambition instead of going to Meereen to help the slaves.  That makes Daenerys the better person to me.

Westeros will be going through a prolonged Ice Age.  The question of who will win the game of thrones is irrelevant.  The west will be a pitiful land with very, very few people left.  It will be a land of wights, direwolves, and white walkers who will prey on the living.  It won't be a trophy.  It will be a mission of mercy when she does finally go to reclaim her lands.  And she will be deserving of the right to rule for as long as she would care to.

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13 hours ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

Correct.  They also would not want Snowflake, the lord commander who betrayed his brothers at the Wall and thus allowed the White Walkers to break through the defense.  

I bet he dun want it anyways!

Nothing in ASOIAF suggests he will gets close to the Iron Throne and even wanting to be a king.

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13 minutes ago, The Map Guy said:

I bet he dun want it anyways!

Nothing in ASOIAF suggests he will gets close to the Iron Throne and even wanting to be a king.

We will just have to wait, read and find out.  The next book.  

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1 hour ago, Mon ami said:

1.  The people of Westeros will be so desperate after all the mismanagement from the Starks, Lannisters, Baratheons, and Greyjoys cause enough suffering and hardship.  They will welcome a Targaryen Queen who can promise order.  Many will welcome the return of the dragons.  The Great Lords must be brought to heel for the good of the people.  The Unsullied are not rapists and they do not pillage.  If you want to conquer and still maintain good public relations, use an army of Unsullied.  The Dothraki are not likely to come to Westeros.  They will be needed to enforce the law against slavery in Essos. 

2.  You are wrong about Meereen.  The process of reform takes time and it is a work in progress.  Millions of slaves are free, thanks to Daenerys Targaryen.  The problems in Meereen are caused by the slavers who refuse to stop their evil ways.  All of the problems would have gone away if they had cooperated willingly from the start. 

3.  How do you know they will be allies?  That's the show.  The books have not made them allies.  Yes, Tyrion has done some things which may serve her interests but he is not in her service.  It is more likely for him to go to Westeros with his new mercenary friends without Daenerys.  Daenerys is the most effective leader among her contemporaries (Robb, Jon, Joffrey, Arrianne, Aegon).  This has been proven.  She led her khalasar across the desert and into safety.  The decision to send Belwas against Zo Phal was brilliant and proof of her ability to make great decisions under pressure.  She's the best.

4.  She will have friends in Westeros.  They've got their heads in the game of thrones right now but all of that will change as soon as the first flakes of winter comes down in the river lands.  The Westeros debt with the Iron Bank will make it impossible to borrow more money to buy food from overseas.  Guess who will have control of the people who actually do the farming and fishing overseas?  Whoever has the Dothraki in their pocket.  Westeros will be reduced to begging for food unless they can find a powerful ally overseas. 

5.  Daenerys has used her power and authority more responsibly than her contemporaries.  She could have gone on to Westeros but instead she chose to help the slaves.  She owed them nothing and yet she is willing to delay the return to her own lands, the lands that rightfully belong to her, in order to help give them freedom.  Aegon chose to look the other way and pursue his own ambition instead of going to Meereen to help the slaves.  That makes Daenerys the better person to me.

Westeros will be going through a prolonged Ice Age.  The question of who will win the game of thrones is irrelevant.  The west will be a pitiful land with very, very few people left.  It will be a land of wights, direwolves, and white walkers who will prey on the living.  It won't be a trophy.  It will be a mission of mercy when she does finally go to reclaim her lands.  And she will be deserving of the right to rule for as long as she would care to.

1.  Like Jorah said, the people of Westeros don't care who sits the iron throne, as long as there is peace. Aegon will steal the "Targaryen who comes to save Westeros" role from Dany. Does he deserve it? No. But it will most likely happen. I don't think the people will be swarming to Daenerys because of her 3 dragons. She can't control them, plus she is the mad kings daughter. The unsullied might not be a problem, but the Dothraki are definitely coming to Westeros. This has been built up since book 1. The Dothraki finally crossing the sea. Come on it's a chekov's gun type of deal.

2. "All of the problems would have gone her way if they had cooperated". Well yes, but they didn't. It's not that simple. Westeros isn't going to cooperate from the start either. Dany is doing the right thing, but so did Ned ad look where he ended up. She escaped an assasination attempt, and has been captured by dothraki, I wouldn't call it a victory.

3. This is ridiculous. You really think Grrm would have Tyrion travel ALL THE WAY to Mereen to meet Dany, and in the end not have it happen. They are both headed in the same direction, why not have them team up? You expect to have 2 different storylines with Dany and Tyrion with 2 different parties heading back to Westeros at the same time. That is a waste of time, and this book needs to start combining storylines if its going to resolve in 2 books. Quaithe also told Dany to beware of the lion, so they will definitely meet. Who's going to take care of Mereen while Dany's gone. We know how Barristans been doing at it. 2 dragons set free and a dead Martell. Tyrion is set up perfectly to negotiate will the slave masters and settle everything, because he knows what needs to be done. Dany won't like it, but she'll have to accept doing things the hard way.

4. The game of thrones isn't going to come to a complete halt because of the long night. There's too much plot left unresolved. There are multiple people with plots to take the throne right now. Varys, who supports Aegon. Doran, who's going to blame Dany for the death of his son. The North, who wants to be independent and doesn't care about the iron throne at the moment, Euron, who Dany will never side with. And littlefinger, who's busy with Sansa. There's not a lot of support left for Dany, which is why she'll be forced to help the North, in hopes of them joining her.

5. I said going forward. I'm not saying she's a bad person, but there's no way the Dothraki will follow Dany unless she burns the Khals. She's probably the stallion who mounts the world, and will burn down cities all over Essos. Quaithe basically told her, "okay, you tried to be nice and that failed. It's time to be a dragon". That's her current mindset. 

I highly doubt the books will end with Dany returning during the long night, saving everyone with her dragons, and then having the people of Westeros hand her the throne. 

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3 hours ago, Mon ami said:

1.  The people of Westeros will be so desperate after all the mismanagement from the Starks, Lannisters, Baratheons, and Greyjoys cause enough suffering and hardship.  They will welcome a Targaryen Queen who can promise order.  Many will welcome the return of the dragons.  The Great Lords must be brought to heel for the good of the people.  The Unsullied are not rapists and they do not pillage.  If you want to conquer and still maintain good public relations, use an army of Unsullied.  The Dothraki are not likely to come to Westeros.  They will be needed to enforce the law against slavery in Essos. 

2.  You are wrong about Meereen.  The process of reform takes time and it is a work in progress.  Millions of slaves are free, thanks to Daenerys Targaryen.  The problems in Meereen are caused by the slavers who refuse to stop their evil ways.  All of the problems would have gone away if they had cooperated willingly from the start. 

3.  How do you know they will be allies?  That's the show.  The books have not made them allies.  Yes, Tyrion has done some things which may serve her interests but he is not in her service.  It is more likely for him to go to Westeros with his new mercenary friends without Daenerys.  Daenerys is the most effective leader among her contemporaries (Robb, Jon, Joffrey, Arrianne, Aegon).  This has been proven.  She led her khalasar across the desert and into safety.  The decision to send Belwas against Zo Phal was brilliant and proof of her ability to make great decisions under pressure.  She's the best.

4.  She will have friends in Westeros.  They've got their heads in the game of thrones right now but all of that will change as soon as the first flakes of winter comes down in the river lands.  The Westeros debt with the Iron Bank will make it impossible to borrow more money to buy food from overseas.  Guess who will have control of the people who actually do the farming and fishing overseas?  Whoever has the Dothraki in their pocket.  Westeros will be reduced to begging for food unless they can find a powerful ally overseas. 

5.  Daenerys has used her power and authority more responsibly than her contemporaries.  She could have gone on to Westeros but instead she chose to help the slaves.  She owed them nothing and yet she is willing to delay the return to her own lands, the lands that rightfully belong to her, in order to help give them freedom.  Aegon chose to look the other way and pursue his own ambition instead of going to Meereen to help the slaves.  That makes Daenerys the better person to me.

Westeros will be going through a prolonged Ice Age.  The question of who will win the game of thrones is irrelevant.  The west will be a pitiful land with very, very few people left.  It will be a land of wights, direwolves, and white walkers who will prey on the living.  It won't be a trophy.  It will be a mission of mercy when she does finally go to reclaim her lands.  And she will be deserving of the right to rule for as long as she would care to.

:agree:

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4 hours ago, Mon ami said:

Westeros will be going through a prolonged Ice Age.  The question of who will win the game of thrones is irrelevant.  The west will be a pitiful land with very, very few people left.  It will be a land of wights, direwolves, and white walkers who will prey on the living.  It won't be a trophy.  It will be a mission of mercy when she does finally go to reclaim her lands.  And she will be deserving of the right to rule for as long as she would care to.

This is true.  Everything we know about the Long Night point to it lasting a long time.  It will not last as long as the real Ice Age but it will last long enough for babies to be born, grow up, and die.  In other words, a lifetime.  None of the families will win the game of throne because it will be buried under a thick blanket of ice in darkness.  Starvation will kill the most.  There will be very few subjects left and they will all look invisible when viewed from the side.  

25 minutes ago, Prince Rhaego said:

How do you know they will be allies?  That's the show.  The books have not made them allies.  Yes, Tyrion has done some things which may serve her interests but he is not in her service.  It is more likely for him to go to Westeros with his new mercenary friends without Daenerys.  

Tyrion is not like to attack Westeros with only a few thousand swords for hire.  They are not dumb enough to do that even if he is.  These kinds of soldiers for hire do not go on suicide missions.  It's not about principles in their eyes.  So no alliance with Dany means they don't leave for Westeros without having a powerful friend.  

There are two choices for Tyrion.  Forget revenge and serve Dany.  Help her rebuild Slaver's Bay into a free people's land.  He can do this and give his existence value.  I hope he does.  But he can also choose to leave without Dany and attach himself to Aegon.  The enemy of my enemy is my friend deal.  

 

Quote

Daenerys is the most effective leader among her contemporaries (Robb, Jon, Joffrey, Arrianne, Aegon).  This has been proven.  She led her khalasar across the desert and into safety.  The decision to send Belwas against Zo Phal was brilliant and proof of her ability to make great decisions under pressure.  She's the best.

Very true.

4 hours ago, Mon ami said:

Aegon chose to look the other way and pursue his own ambition instead of going to Meereen to help the slaves.  That makes Daenerys the better person to me.

They have different motivations.  Aegon believes the people across the world murdered his father, mother, grandfather, and sister.  JC fed him with stories of how great his father was.  Dany believes it is more important to help the slaves.  She is the more mature person to me.  

 

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Posted (edited)

She opened the red door in her dream and saw Rhaegar and the face within was her own. I think that suggests that the only home she will find is one that she makes herself, not one that she expects is waiting for her. Westeros for Dany is like King's Landing was for Sansa. 

And:

“all that lived and breathed fled in terror from the shadow of her wings. She could smell home, she could see it, there, just beyond that door, green fields and great stone houses”

Everywhere she goes she brings destruction, turning fields from green to brown and tearing down houses (the Dothraki do this too).

Dany destroying her "home" because she can't have it - or it doesn't fit the charmed image she had - would fit with her immature, impulsive characterization. 

 

 

 

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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Pretty much everyone agrees Dany's ultimate destiny is not necessarily the throne but fighting the others.

I have to address this foreign invaders thing though. Dany was born in Westeros to a family that ruled over the continent for 300 years. There are many reasons for the Westerosi lords to reject her claim, but growing up in Essos in not one of them. They won't care that her army is from Essos either, just like they don't care that Tywin and Stannis and probably every other lord have used sellswords. What they'll be thinking is "oh shit, giant army! Oh shit, dragons!"

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Hodor the Articulate said:

Pretty much everyone agrees Dany's ultimate destiny is not necessarily the throne but fighting the others.

I have to address this foreign invaders thing though. Dany was born in Westeros to a family that ruled over the continent for 300 years. There are many reasons for the Westerosi lords to reject her claim, but growing up in Essos in not one of them. They won't care that her army is from Essos either, just like they don't care that Tywin and Stannis and probably every other lord have used sellswords. What they'll be thinking is "oh shit, giant army! Oh shit, dragons!"

It was never an issue in Medieval European history.  Most English kings were "foreign" and every pretender hired knights and mercenaries from all over Europe to enforce their claims.  Intense nationalism belongs to a much later period of history than the period that this tale is based upon.

What people will think of Daenerys turns a great deal on whether or not the Others have breached the Wall by the time she arrives, IMHO.

Edited by SeanF

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On 5/9/2020 at 7:36 PM, King Adrian Storm said:

Dany won't like it, but she'll have to accept doing things the hard way

Tyrion could get her back to the place where she was before she went on her little joyride. So back to Meereen as the only free city in Slavers Bay and the blockade removed. Maybe. But Tyrion fetishizes dragons like Dany does. He may try the "just burn his tokar a little" method. But even that had consequences. Eventually he needs to learn that nukes cant really save lives because they are inherently unstable. 

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Posted (edited)
47 minutes ago, Rose of Red Lake said:

Tyrion could get her back to the place where she was before she went on her little joyride. So back to Meereen as the only free city in Slavers Bay and the blockade removed. Maybe. But Tyrion fetishizes dragons like Dany does. He may try the "just burn his tokar a little" method. But even that had consequences. Eventually he needs to learn that nukes cant really save lives because they are inherently unstable. 

President Truman would disagree I think.

The destruction of the Slavers, though, is likely going to come about through revolts and defections among their own soldiers.  The Tattered Prince and Brown Ben have defected, and the Tiger Soldiers of Volantis will revolt.

When masters rely upon slaves to do their fighting for them, it won't end well for the masters.

Edited by SeanF

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