Redemption

[Hugorfonics]

Mainly Tyrion the kingslayer, Theon the kinslayer and Sandor the mad dog of the Saltpens.

Can Westeros forgive them? What amount of goodness, if any, is possible for these three to erase the stigma thats attached to their names?

Specifically from their most famous and heinous crimes that I listed above

[LynnS]

Jaime Lannister?  Personally, I hope Lady Stoneheart sends him to the Wall.

[Vaith]

5 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Tyrion the kingslayer

Possibly, the Lannisters might not be fondly remembered after their regime topples down. But someone would have to make an effort to clear his name.

I'd say Tyrion's longer-term reputation will be the kinslayer one. He did kill Tywin, there's no denying that.

11 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Theon the kinslayer

Possibly! Bran and Rickon are alive, and if they show themselves to the world... well, Theon becomes a murderer of two peasant kids and traitor, but no longer "kinslayer"

12 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Sandor the mad dog of the Saltpens.

Probably not. If he is the Gravedigger I doubt he is a man who really wants to clear the reputation of Sandor Clegane in the first place.

[Hugorfonics]

29 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Jaime Lannister? 

I didnt include him, and others craving redemption, because his crimes are his own

29 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Personally, I hope Lady Stoneheart sends him to the Wall.

Lmao, Catelyns jaw would drop if the kingslayer asked to go to the wall, you know, if her jaw wasnt dropping as is

21 minutes ago, Vaith said:

Possibly, the Lannisters might not be fondly remembered after their regime topples down. But someone would have to make an effort to clear his name.

I'd say Tyrion's longer-term reputation will be the kinslayer one. He did kill Tywin, there's no denying that.

True

21 minutes ago, Vaith said:

Possibly! Bran and Rickon are alive, and if they show themselves to the world... well, Theon becomes a murderer of two peasant kids and traitor, but no longer "kinslayer"

For sure, if the boys turn up then itd be the right start in the road to redemption

 

21 minutes ago, Vaith said:

Probably not. If he is the Gravedigger I doubt he is a man who really wants to clear the reputation of Sandor Clegane in the first place.

I dont see many outcomes where Rorge the Hound gets unmasked, because hes dead.

But you think in the eyes of the public he'll always be the mad dog? Even if he saves Westeros from Drogon or goes toe to toe with the Nights King, or whatever?

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

2 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

Mainly Tyrion the kingslayer, Theon the kinslayer and Sandor the mad dog of the Saltpens.

Can Westeros forgive them? What amount of goodness, if any, is possible for these three to erase the stigma thats attached to their names?

Specifically from their most famous and heinous crimes that I listed above

Can Westeros forgive them?

Westeros is not one people.  You can never get everybody to forgive.  Especially the families of the ones they harmed. 

What amount of goodness, if any, is possible for these three to erase the stigma that's attached to their names?

Brace yourself for a long reply, o/p.  You asked for a complicated answer. 

Killing a person has a permanent effect.  The person's life is taken away.  It can never be returned even if the murderer feels deep remorse and tons of guilt later on.  Those men can live like saints for the remainder of their days and their victims will still be dead.  The wrong cannot be made right.  It's not like a child taking candy from a grocery store, shoplifting, and later as an adult she comes back to that store and pays the owner for the stolen item.  Stealing and fraud can be made right.  It takes remorse, honesty, and correcting issues that was caused.  It can be done.  Killing somebody is a different matter altogether.  A time machine to roll back the time and undo the killing does not exists.  For those reasons and some others, I have concerns about the judgment of those on this website who defend Jon's execution of Janos Slynt.  One of the acts which confirmed for me that Jon is not fit to rule over other people.  I am seeing the same thing on the Arya discussion topic.

My conclusion is this.  It should not be about clearing their names for these men.  Tywin, the farm boys, and Micah will never get their lives back.  The sin remains like a permanent mark on the soul.  Tyrion, Theon, and Sandor can snap out of the paralyzing feelings of guilt and dedicate themselves to somebody who has a good cause.  Many Daenerys Targaryen fans have already prescribed this treatment for Tyrion.  The Little lion needs to stop thinking about himself and find something or someone greater than himself to serve with all of his heart.  You were referring to the murder of Joffrey and the public perception.  I chose to take a different angle and looked at how these sinners may salvage their lives and give it good purpose.  For Tyrion, that salvation and redemption means serving Daenerys Targaryen.  Theon has already started when he helped Jeyne.  Sandor will probably get his turn too.

[Hugorfonics]

2 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Can Westeros forgive them?

Westeros is not one people.  You can never get everybody to forgive.  Especially the families of the ones they harmed. 

For sure, but in a general sense, like Aemon the Dragonknight must have made some widows and orphans, but hes perceived as being a hero

2 hours ago, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

What amount of goodness, if any, is possible for these three to erase the stigma that's attached to their names?

Brace yourself for a long reply, o/p.  You asked for a complicated answer. 

Killing a person has a permanent effect.  The person's life is taken away.  It can never be returned even if the murderer feels deep remorse and tons of guilt later on.  Those men can live like saints for the remainder of their days and their victims will still be dead.  The wrong cannot be made right.  It's not like a child taking candy from a grocery store, shoplifting, and later as an adult she comes back to that store and pays the owner for the stolen item.  Stealing and fraud can be made right.  It takes remorse, honesty, and correcting issues that was caused.  It can be done.  Killing somebody is a different matter altogether.  A time machine to roll back the time and undo the killing does not exists.  For those reasons and some others, I have concerns about the judgment of those on this website who defend Jon's execution of Janos Slynt.  One of the acts which confirmed for me that Jon is not fit to rule over other people.  I am seeing the same thing on the Arya discussion topic.

My conclusion is this.  It should not be about clearing their names for these men.  Tywin, the farm boys, and Micah will never get their lives back.  The sin remains like a permanent mark on the soul.  Tyrion, Theon, and Sandor can snap out of the paralyzing feelings of guilt and dedicate themselves to somebody who has a good cause.  Many Daenerys Targaryen fans have already prescribed this treatment for Tyrion.  The Little lion needs to stop thinking about himself and find something or someone greater than himself to serve with all of his heart.  You were referring to the murder of Joffrey and the public perception.  I chose to take a different angle and looked at how these sinners may salvage their lives and give it good purpose.  For Tyrion, that salvation and redemption means serving Daenerys Targaryen.  Theon has already started when he helped Jeyne.  Sandor will probably get his turn too.

Do you think its possible for the majority of Westeros to see the Imp in a positive light if he brings justice and whatever with Danys liberating army? I suppose its possible, I agree it wont do anything to redeem himself in his eyes.

Im especially curious about Sandor though. What Rorge did in his likeness was beyond infamous, how can a mere gravedigger, or anyone, make that right?

[chrisdaw]

Tyrion will be forgiven. He may be pardoned by a popular king Aegon. He will play a part in the ousting of deeply hated Queen Daenerys and be succesfully publicised as the protector of the city and Faith, having turned away Stannis and his Red God, and then Dany with her foreign infidel hordes. And the realm will love his wife so much they'll forget they ever hated him, as with Marge and Joff.

Theon's redemption is more personal. His comes by pledging allegiance to a Stark brother going to war against the South and dying in his cause, a second chance to do what he wishes he had done.

There are those with power and access to power who know it wasn't Sandor. The true story will make it to the crown and Faith, where he will rise. He will do many a heroic thing, but turn cloak a few times, from the outside looking in he'll be a divisive figure.

[James Fenimore Cooper XXII]

3 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

For sure, but in a general sense, like Aemon the Dragonknight must have made some widows and orphans, but hes perceived as being a hero

Do you think its possible for the majority of Westeros to see the Imp in a positive light if he brings justice and whatever with Danys liberating army? I suppose its possible, I agree it wont do anything to redeem himself in his eyes.

Im especially curious about Sandor though. What Rorge did in his likeness was beyond infamous, how can a mere gravedigger, or anyone, make that right?

Westeros is not one people.  The people povs we have been given regard Aemon as a hero.  I am sure some do not see it that way.

It will be hard to get past killing his father and Joffrey.  Do you believe public relations will be important when the Others are attacking?  I am not sure about that.  Westeros is in real trouble right now.  The only way to get through the winter is with help from the outside.  I am not saying Tyrion will be embraced but he will be accepted if he comes as part of the Targaryen armies.  He may be able to forgive himself eventually.  It is not about that though.  He should think how he wishes to live his life from here on.  He should be prepared to accept the scorn. 

Making it right is not finding public acceptance.  It is about making amends when possible.  Help the boy's family and ask forgiveness.  He should spend the years left to him in the service of something good.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

I think Theon can probably be forgiven in the eyes of Westeros. 

Not so sure about Tyrion & the Hound but I do think Westeros can forget. There is plenty of killing going on & some worse people than these two so I don't think they will be forever seen as evil. 

I don't know how much this matters irt redemption though. I think you can redeem yourself regardless if anyone else believes you have. 

[divica]

39 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I think Theon can probably be forgiven in the eyes of Westeros. 

Not so sure about Tyrion & the Hound but I do think Westeros can forget. There is plenty of killing going on & some worse people than these two so I don't think they will be forever seen as evil. 

I don't know how much this matters irt redemption though. I think you can redeem yourself regardless if anyone else believes you have. 

The north will never forgive theon. It doesn t make sense... In a way he is responsible for all the bad stuff that happened there. However I can see them preferring to exile him from the north instead of killing him so that he can suffer. But given theon's phisical condition it is unlikely that he will survive for long(there is no point). 

Tyrion killed his father and is believed to have killed his nephew. Unless he can convince people he is innocent of these crimes he will never be forgiven. Hell, Jaime killed aerys that everybody hated and after all this time people still Don t like him... Tyrion killing his kin is much worse... 

 

The Hound is basically meaningless in for westeros. Nobody will make a fuss is some king forgives him... 

[Nagini's Neville]

On 10. Mai 2020 at 4:37 PM, Hugorfonics said:

Mainly Tyrion the kingslayer, Theon the kinslayer and Sandor the mad dog of the Saltpens.

Can Westeros forgive them? What amount of goodness, if any, is possible for these three to erase the stigma thats attached to their names?

Specifically from their most famous and heinous crimes that I listed above

Great topic  Have asked myself that before.

Honestly I don't know, if Tyrion is able to get redemption in the eyes of Westeros. Mainly because he always has been the evil "demon-monkey" from the get go in their minds. Ik this is not the actual MA (as you like to remind me), but in this specific aspect (as in a lot of other stuff) GRRM has been heavily inspired by "the medieval mindset". 

"Tyrion is someone, who is easily cast as a villain. The dwarf, hated by the gods, so they twisted his body into unfortunate shape. So this is a clear sign of the evil inside him. This is how the medieval mindset worked" GRRM 

So basically his outside is a direct indication of his inside. He must be an evil person looking like this. This is also part of the reason, why Sansa is so afraid to look at Sandor, because his outside is a reminder of his violent and dangerous character (which he reaffirms through his actions) and also why she associates beauty with an inner goodness, when we first meet her in AGOT. It is not all about her just being a young, naive girl, who loves songs, but also is connected to the general medieval way of thinking. Even Sandor calls Tyrion a monster and I'm sure that Cersei's hatred and mistrust is heavily connected to his looks as well(even though Cersei of course would have hated and feared him regardless, because she never would have allowed herself to put another brother before Jaime and allowed herself to fear, that Jaime could kill her and also Tyrion still would have "killed" her mother- but it makes sense and is easy to cast Tyrion in that role, because he looks the part)

During the riot Tyrion is the person in the government, that gets blamed the most.

“They hate my family, is that what you are telling me?” “Aye … and will turn on them, if the chance comes.” “Me as well?” “Ask your eunuch.” “I’m asking you.” Bywater’s deepset eyes met the dwarf’s mismatched ones, and did not blink. “You most of all, my lord.” “Most of all?” The injustice was like to choke him.

A Clash of Kings, Tyrion 9

He has already saved KL in one battle (BOTB), but is rewarded with zero gratitude.

Tyrion is already feared, mistrusted and hated, so I almost suspect, that him murdering Tywin did only confirm most of Wetserosi peoples' prejudices against him. For sure most were not as shocked as Jon was. 

The problem is of course as well, that Tyrion's attitude towards Westeros is not the best rn. It feels like he is done with trying to make Westeros or KL like him. And I dunno, if coming back as an advisor to the forgein dragon queen, who might try to conquer Westeros will necessarily help him in terms of popularity.

So what could happen to make people change their opinion on him? I could see Sansa and Jon playing a role, "speaking on his behalf"(I do think GRRM has established those relationships for a reason)- if Tyrion doesn't completely see them as his enemies now and has changed too much.

And as we all know Tyrion for sure is capable of solving big problems and of big actions( sorry dunno rn how to say that better), so I can definitely see him playing a significant role in the fight against the others, doing something monumental, clever and heroic to save humanity. The question however remains, will he be giving credit for his potential good deeds? When he has never gotten said credit before? Maybe, would be nice for Tyrion, maybe not and than maybe in the end it doesn't really matter because most of Westeros is doomed anyway and won't survive the Long Night. Maybe Tyrion will get a new beginning afterwards. But I also could see him forever keeping a certain reputation, that doesn't represent him accurately, just as Dany might go down in history as "the mad Queen" even though I doubt she'll ever truly go mad. IMO the discrepancy between reputation and the truth is something GRRM likes to play with and of course has been a big deal in history since the beginning of time.

Brienne and the elder brother are probably needed to speak on Sandor's behalf and will be instrumental in proving his innocence. If Sansa is a position of power and they cross paths somehow, maybe she'll help him as well.

But I think as long as he isn't imprisoned for it, he really won't care too much about what Westeros thinks about him in the end. I could see Sandor ultimately "ending up" somehow connected to the Starks and as long as some people, that he respects have a good opinion of him or at least see him for what he is and don't take him for Gregor, I don't think he'll truly care too much about other people's opinions.

I don't really have an idea for Theon though. Especially because he is so "weak" now and basically wants to die, so traumatized and don't seem to be able to stand up for himself. For him I also think his fate and redemption might be directly connected to the Starks and the rest of Westeros and their opinions won't matter. What are your ideas for Theon?

 

 

 

 

[Nagini's Neville]

On 10. Mai 2020 at 5:12 PM, Hugorfonics said:

But you think in the eyes of the public he'll always be the mad dog? Even if he saves Westeros from Drogon or goes toe to toe with the Nights King, or whatever?

lol you think, he'll do that ?

On 10. Mai 2020 at 5:12 PM, Hugorfonics said:

Lmao, Catelyns jaw would drop if the kingslayer asked to go to the wall, you know, if her jaw wasnt dropping as is

 cruel just cruel 

[Nagini's Neville]

On 10. Mai 2020 at 7:38 PM, James Fenimore Cooper XXII said:

Can Westeros forgive them?

Westeros is not one people.  You can never get everybody to forgive.  Especially the families of the ones they harmed. 

What amount of goodness, if any, is possible for these three to erase the stigma that's attached to their names?

Brace yourself for a long reply, o/p.  You asked for a complicated answer. 

Killing a person has a permanent effect.  The person's life is taken away.  It can never be returned even if the murderer feels deep remorse and tons of guilt later on.  Those men can live like saints for the remainder of their days and their victims will still be dead.  The wrong cannot be made right.  It's not like a child taking candy from a grocery store, shoplifting, and later as an adult she comes back to that store and pays the owner for the stolen item.  Stealing and fraud can be made right.  It takes remorse, honesty, and correcting issues that was caused.  It can be done.  Killing somebody is a different matter altogether.  A time machine to roll back the time and undo the killing does not exists.  For those reasons and some others, I have concerns about the judgment of those on this website who defend Jon's execution of Janos Slynt.  One of the acts which confirmed for me that Jon is not fit to rule over other people.  I am seeing the same thing on the Arya discussion topic.

My conclusion is this.  It should not be about clearing their names for these men.  Tywin, the farm boys, and Micah will never get their lives back.  The sin remains like a permanent mark on the soul.  Tyrion, Theon, and Sandor can snap out of the paralyzing feelings of guilt and dedicate themselves to somebody who has a good cause.  Many Daenerys Targaryen fans have already prescribed this treatment for Tyrion.  The Little lion needs to stop thinking about himself and find something or someone greater than himself to serve with all of his heart.  You were referring to the murder of Joffrey and the public perception.  I chose to take a different angle and looked at how these sinners may salvage their lives and give it good purpose.  For Tyrion, that salvation and redemption means serving Daenerys Targaryen.  Theon has already started when he helped Jeyne.  Sandor will probably get his turn too.

I agree with a lot of what you've said, but you know, Dany is responsible for the death of a lot of people as well, also 13 year old children. And somehow she is fit for ruling, but Jon Snow isn't ? And Arya a traumatized little girl, who had to survive, is supposed to be never forgiven? Sounds like a double standard to me.

[Darth Sidious]

On 5/10/2020 at 8:51 PM, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I think Theon can probably be forgiven in the eyes of Westeros. 

Not so sure about Tyrion & the Hound but I do think Westeros can forget. There is plenty of killing going on & some worse people than these two so I don't think they will be forever seen as evil. 

I don't know how much this matters irt redemption though. I think you can redeem yourself regardless if anyone else believes you have. 

Theon murdered two peasants.  The lords are not gonna loose too much sleep over that.  It's really less forgivable.  I mean, at least Bran and Rickon are parts of the family holding him hostage.  

[Hugorfonics]

On 5/10/2020 at 8:51 PM, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I don't know how much this matters irt redemption though. I think you can redeem yourself regardless if anyone else believes you have. 

I agree

2 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Great topic  Have asked myself that before.

It makes me think of Hercules. He beat his wife and children to death but after completing all those impossible tasks he was redeemed. Although by ascending mt olympus that means he died, does that story mean redemption is possible in death?

2 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Honestly I don't know, if Tyrion is able to get redemption in the eyes of Westeros. Mainly because he always has been the evil "demon-monkey" from the get go in their minds. Ik this is not the actual MA (as you like to remind me), but in this specific aspect (as in a lot of other stuff) GRRM has been heavily inspired by "the medieval mindset". 

"Tyrion is someone, who is easily cast as a villain. The dwarf, hated by the gods, so they twisted his body into unfortunate shape. So this is a clear sign of the evil inside him. This is how the medieval mindset worked" GRRM 

So basically his outside is a direct indication of his inside. He must be an evil person looking like this.

Perhaps, but he was only christened the monkey demon when he was put in control of the starving city that prepared for attack.

But yea, being a dwarf with weird eyes isnt great, his nose wont help eithrt. But Tyrions far from the only ugly character

Quote

"Scars, you mean?"

"My lady, that creature chewed off half your cheek."

Brienne could not help but flinch. Every knight has battle scars, Ser Goodwin had warned her, when she asked him to teach her the sword. Is that what you want, child?

I do agree though that Tyrions monstrous form will have most seeing him as a monster. Like many see Catelyn, and just like the Imp, not all appearances are telling

3 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

The problem is of course as well, that Tyrion's attitude towards Westeros is not the best rn. It feels like he is done with trying to make Westeros or KL like him. And I dunno, if coming back as an advisor to the forgein dragon queen, who might try to conquer Westeros will necessarily help him in terms of popularity.

No doubt. Tyrion is not seeking redemption, but retribution. Which probably wont go well in the popularity department, especially while traveling with dragons a dothraki horde and a mad queen. 

Which is of course assuming Tyrion will be a good little Imp for Dany, which... I dont see happening.

Quote

"Someone told me that the night is dark and full of terrors. What do you see in those flames?"

"Dragons," Moqorro said in the Common Tongue of Westeros. He spoke it very well, with hardly a trace of accent. No doubt that was one reason the high priest Benerro had chosen him to bring the faith of R'hllor to Daenerys Targaryen. "Dragons old and young, true and false, bright and dark. And you. A small man with a big shadow, snarling in the midst of all."

 

3 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

And as we all know Tyrion for sure is capable of solving big problems and of big actions( sorry dunno rn how to say that better), so I can definitely see him playing a significant role in the fight against the others, doing something monumental, clever and heroic to save humanity. The question however remains, will he be giving credit for his potential good deeds?

(Great things?) For sure, I think Tyrion would want to be remembered fondly, hes not a NW guy who has no "honor" like Halfhand was, hes a proud Lannister.

3 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

What are your ideas for Theon?

Nothing concrete. Im terrible at predicting

3 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

lol you think, he'll do that ?

Nah lol. I don't even think the nights king is real, or was real

3 hours ago, Nagini's Neville said:

cruel just cruel 

Yea, but funny lol

[Nagini's Neville]

35 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

He beat his wife and children to death

wow I didn't know that. What an asshole he was. Idk can't take Greek mythology seriously  full of psychos.

37 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

does that story mean redemption is possible in death?

I specifically answered your questions in regards to Westeros. Otherwise the question, if redemption is possible is more of a philosophical question IMO. And for me personally it's too religious/spiritual. It kinda makes me think of someone sitting in the sky judging us all. So IMO the bad you have done can never be redeemed. The people you have hurt have to live with the consequences of your actions  for the rest of their lives and this can never ever be changed again. That doesn't mean however, that you have to go on hurting even more people, because those are just additional "sins".

So I personally don't believe in redemption, because who is going to decide, if you've been redeemed or not? Other human beings of course. And that's something I dislike. I don't like when humans play god and I don't believe in god and if you've killed a child, this child will stay dead forever, will never grow up, never have the chance to develop and their parents wounds will never heal.

So I don't believe in redemption, but I believe in change and I believe it is never too late to change. The bad will never go away, but you can still use your life for something good and have a positive impact on others. And I also believe in forgiveness, but it's something you aren't entitled to. And sometimes you also have to forgive yourself to be able to move on.

56 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

Perhaps, but he was only christened the monkey demon when he was put in control of the starving city that prepared for attack.

yeah, but he is blamed the most even when Joffrey shoots commoners with his cross-bow and Cersei is a "brother-fucker" 

And they also call him the half-man.

GRRM said himself his physical appearance is a reminder of the evil inside him

59 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

But yea, being a dwarf with weird eyes isnt great, his nose wont help eithrt. But Tyrions far from the only ugly character

Sure, but look how awfully Brienne is treated- not much difference .

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

not all appearances are telling

of course there is no connection between looks and character! this is just the Westerosi mindset  

 

Quote

 

No doubt. Tyrion is not seeking redemption, but retribution. Which probably wont go well in the popularity department, especially while traveling with dragons a dothraki horde and a mad queen. 

Which is of course assuming Tyrion will be a good little Imp for Dany, which... I dont see happening

 

Still won't help with popularity. If Tyrion was unpopular when he left, dunno how he could suddenly be popular, if he came back.

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Halfhand

he had no honor?

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Nothing concrete. Im terrible at predicting

how disappointing lol

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Nah lol. I don't even think the nights king is real, or was real

me neither  

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

Yea, but funny lol

truuu 

[Pdor]

Tyrion: realistically, whatever will appen in the future, he will be remebered as the twisted little monster who killed his own sire, nephew and several baby dolphins. He is famous around the world for it, they even made theatrical representations of it overseas!

"a dwarf

is scum for sure

because his heart is too

too close to his asshole" (Fabrizio De André - Un giudice)

 

Sandor: if the story ends well for him, I see him retiring somewhere and being forgotten quickly.

 

Theon: the North will not forgive him, the rest of the continent will not give a fig about him. He will die before the story ends anyway.

Quote

Lmao, Catelyns jaw would drop if the kingslayer asked to go to the wall, you know, if her jaw wasnt dropping as is

[Nagini's Neville]

3 minutes ago, Pdor said:

realistically, whatever will appen in the future, he will be remebered as the twisted little monster who killed his own sire, nephew and several baby dolphins.

Wait what? the mystery who killed the baby dolphins is finally solved?!! And I always thought LF pushed them through the Moon door! Quote please! 

[Lady Topspin]

On 5/10/2020 at 10:37 AM, Hugorfonics said:

Mainly Tyrion the kingslayer, Theon the kinslayer and Sandor the mad dog of the Saltpens.

Can Westeros forgive them? What amount of goodness, if any, is possible for these three to erase the stigma thats attached to their names?

Specifically from their most famous and heinous crimes that I listed above

Time has remarkable healing properties.  They will be tolerated at first and eventually will be accepted.  Theon has the largest obstacle in his acceptance.  The Starks.  Arya and Jon are not the forgiving kind.  They will need to die before Theon can have his chance to redeem himself.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

47 minutes ago, Lady Topspin said:

Time has remarkable healing properties.  They will be tolerated at first and eventually will be accepted.  Theon has the largest obstacle in his acceptance.  The Starks.  Arya and Jon are not the forgiving kind.  They will need to die before Theon can have his chance to redeem himself.

I don't think so, when Jon & Arya learn the truth - that Theon didn't kill Bran & Rickon, they will, if not forgive him for taking WF, at the least not want him dead for it I would imagine.