Skahaz mo Kandaq Posted June 8, 2020 Share Posted June 8, 2020 On 5/17/2020 at 9:27 PM, Son of Man said: The Stark-Lannister feud will resume as soon as the wolfies get some power back. I want to see what Bran will do to Jaime. Me too. Bran and Jaime killing each other should be a fun read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Curled Finger Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 On 5/10/2020 at 7:37 AM, Hugorfonics said: Mainly Tyrion the kingslayer, Theon the kinslayer and Sandor the mad dog of the Saltpens. Can Westeros forgive them? What amount of goodness, if any, is possible for these three to erase the stigma thats attached to their names? Specifically from their most famous and heinous crimes that I listed above Westeros, huh? Time has a way of erasing memories. The man Tyrion killed reminds me of big ugly madmen in our own world. Had someone taken Hitler out, would he or she be remembered for murder by the masses? Tywin was a true monster. Tyrion did Westeros a favor, but who will forget that he killed his own father? Theon is basically innocent of kinslaying. I'm not saying what he did was good or in any way right, but he was only a ward in Winterfell. There was no kinship other than in his own mind. Eventually someone will see the behaviors of some of the BWB and know that Mad Dog Clegane was not there and did not have his helm. You chose interesting characters and crimes. Why not Ned or Jamie or Cersei or Walder Frey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
frenin Posted June 11, 2020 Share Posted June 11, 2020 On 5/17/2020 at 3:04 AM, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said: I don't think Theon taking WF had that big of an impact honestly. What damage was done by the IB? I thought it was minimal & the lot of it was done by Ramsay. He did betray Robb though so that may be a source of contention between them. I thought Ramsay & Co killed Luwin, but maybe I'm remembering wrong. Anyway I don't think it's that unlikely after finding out he didn't kill Bran & Rickon, plus the torture he has already endured that they won't want revenge on him. What more could possibly be done to him? Theon taking Winterfell doomed Robb and doomed the North. During the Robellion, the Stormlands were invaded by the Reach but until Storm's End didn't fall, the Stormlands wouldn't have fallen. Theon single handely provoked the fall of the North in disarray, killed Robb's heirs, leading to a succesion problem that still haunts the North, made a grieving Robb sleep with Jeyne... And Tyrion ravaged Winterfell. Theon took upon himself to doomed the Northmen. Honestly i don't even know why the man should have redemption. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rose of Red Lake Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 On 5/10/2020 at 7:37 AM, Hugorfonics said: Mainly Tyrion the kingslayer, Theon the kinslayer and Sandor the mad dog of the Saltpens. Can Westeros forgive them? What amount of goodness, if any, is possible for these three to erase the stigma thats attached to their names? Specifically from their most famous and heinous crimes that I listed above I think Tyrion will have a redemption arc because he's GRRM's fav, but the shit doesn't deserve one. Sandor, ummmm...will just continue to whatever he's doing and won't change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Random6661 Posted June 20, 2020 Share Posted June 20, 2020 There is nothing to forgive in Sandor case, he was not the one who attacked the Saltpans. Brienne knows that as do Thoros and the brotherhood WO Banners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
violentdelights Posted June 22, 2020 Share Posted June 22, 2020 In general, redemption is always possible ... especially so in fiction (and it's not linear either). However, it is only satisfying if it was built up (i.e. the character demonstrates a desire to change, holds some accountability for their crimes, etc). I mean, George could write: "And so Euron Greyjoy atoned for his past evils and spent his remaining years feeding poor and curing diseases long believed to be incurable. The End." But that would be completely unsatisfying for the reader because it came out of the blue. In any case, it would be quite a dreary world to live in if one didn't believe in the transformative nature of the human soul, much less, those of fictional characters. Also, redemption is not charity. It is meant to be earned. The hands that gripped the sword stained with the blood of innocents could be the very same hands that would heal the injured, aid the poor, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eli Cross Posted June 25, 2020 Share Posted June 25, 2020 On 6/22/2020 at 1:23 AM, violentdelights said: In general, redemption is always possible ... especially so in fiction (and it's not linear either). However, it is only satisfying if it was built up (i.e. the character demonstrates a desire to change, holds some accountability for their crimes, etc). I mean, George could write: "And so Euron Greyjoy atoned for his past evils and spent his remaining years feeding poor and curing diseases long believed to be incurable. The End." But that would be completely unsatisfying for the reader because it came out of the blue. In any case, it would be quite a dreary world to live in if one didn't believe in the transformative nature of the human soul, much less, those of fictional characters. Also, redemption is not charity. It is meant to be earned. The hands that gripped the sword stained with the blood of innocents could be the very same hands that would heal the injured, aid the poor, etc. A sincere and deep desire to change must be felt by the penitent. Feeling the guilt is not enough on its own. The penitent must pay back his victims. I don't think even George knows whether the sinner has earned redemption. He is just playing around with the subject. The crime is so great in some that even the execution of the penitent cannot possibly measure up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nagini's Neville Posted June 26, 2020 Share Posted June 26, 2020 On 25. Juni 2020 at 3:41 AM, Sire de Maletroit said: The penitent must pay back his victims. Then I'd say it's impossible for this lot. How are they suppose to pay back the dead? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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