The Locked Tomb Trilogy by Tamsyn Muir

[Xray the Enforcer]

I started in on Nona the Ninth, but I feel like I need a post where we summarize everything we know so far before going in. Because having to dig through this thread during my re-read is going to frustrate me to no end. 

What we know so far (spoilers only up to the end of Harrow the Ninth):

Spoiler

The body in the Locked Tomb is Alecto, the first person John resurrected. Alecto became mentally unstable (possibly due to an imperfect resurrection -- but also possibly because of John's lying about Perfect Lyctorhood) and violent, hence being locked in the tomb. She was put there by John and [name] and [name]. The blood wards protecting the tomb were keyed to John's DNA profile. 

Harrow was able to open to the tomb because her hands were covered with Gideon Nav's blood, Gideon being the offspring of John and Awake, a Blood of Eden insurgent.

John lied about the nature of Lyctorhood and the fact that perfect Lyctorhood (where the cavalier does not have to die) is possible. 

Harrow had Ianthe do crude brain surgery on her to sever the link between her and Nav (to hide the fact that Nav was "alive"?)

 

Edited September 17, 2022 by Xray the Enforcer

[Chataya de Fleury]

Omg the new book is available, I am going to now buy it and ignore everything and everyone for a few hours.

[Maia]

I loved the book, as is evident from the speed of my reaction post . The main narrator voice resonated with me much better than in the previous volume, while the setting, plot and mysteries remain as intriguing as ever. I also enjoy having certain theories of mine having been proven right! It is  great how every installment manages to have a  distinct tone and show another part of this very imaginative setting.

 

On 9/16/2022 at 4:05 PM, karaddin said:

It's not quite the head fuck that Harrow was, but I suspect there's still a lot of layered depth that will need multiple reads to fully tease out, helpfully the audio book will add bonus interest to the second read.

 

Yep. Have I missed something in the previous books? I didn't re-read, just read this https://www.tor.com/2022/06/08/as-yet-unsent-tamsyn-muir/, which wasn't in the ebook :

 

Spoiler

Didn't the Blood of Eden take Gideon's body along with the non-Lyctor survivors of the trial? How did John get it back?

Oh, and now we know why he is implacably hostile to those other humans and that they used FTL to spread and move around, but was there any previous hint about why he and his Hands continued to kill the spirits of various uninhabited planets and planetoids? Is he just addicted to  hits of thanergy as this book suggests - is he getting them even at such distances, or was there something else?

Poor Ninth House, to be now plagued by actual zombies, after Harrow re-peopled them! They can never catch a break. Were we told what those are, BTW, or is it yet another mystery? I mean, I remember what happen to the Eighth cavalier, but IIRC then it wasn't transmitted through bites.

Also very interesting that it _was_ critically important for there to be a blood heir of Anastasia around, so the atrocity that led to Harrow's birth had some method to it's madness. Of course, they could have just asked for help from one of the more biology-attuned Houses instead...

I knew that Annabel was the  spirit of Earth, i.e. Gaia, hence John Gaius! Nice to be vinidcated. I never imagined the infernal feedback circle of her endowing him with the first necromantic ability so that he could save her and him finishing her destruction instead, and then raising her into a sort of half-life. Oh, and his treatment of his "friends" and the reason for it is even worse than it seemed in Harrow!

 

On 9/16/2022 at 4:05 PM, karaddin said:

One nice detail I've already seen pointed out

  Hide contents

Most of the other kids aren't actually named what we see, Nona's universal translator is working on the names for their original meanings - the exceptions being Hot Sauce (which is why one of them asks if that's really her name at one point) and Kevin.

Care to elaborate? I don't understand. Oh, and I forgot to mention that Nona is an absolute treasure.
 

Spoiler

I knew pretty early on that she couldn't be any part of Harrow, but yellow eyes led me to think that she might be a very happy lobotomised version of Gideon, possibly somehow connected to/mixed with bits of Annabel, forgetting that Annabel's eyes are, of course, the same.

Do we know who Aim/Angel is? They can't be John in disguise, right? Because these last sentences sure are confusing and strongly suggest that he is really close to where the rest of them are.

 

[karaddin]

@Maia I don't think you're missing anything, pretty sure everything you had a question about is still a mystery

Spoiler

Specifically that we don't have an explanation for how John got Gideon's body or what the demon possession stuff is.

I also thought Alecto was the RB for Earth, I posted that theory on the subreddit just after Ht9 came out and it's the first time a theory of mine became popular and then true - even if it wasn't my pushing of the theory that made it popular lol. So I'm proud.

On the names thing, most (or at least a lot) of names mean something in the language they developed in. For example Robert means something like "bright or famous", Michael means "who is like god".

So it's very likely that the names of the kids is actually something like

Honestly - Faroukh "an honest man" or Saadiq "one who is honest and trustworthy"

Born in the morning - Danika "morning star". I don't know a good fit for this one, but it's the one that actually has attention called to Nona saying it wrong

But because Nona understands the meaning of everything she hears, we're getting the translation of the name rather than the actual name. Except for Hot Sauce who actually calls herself that.

@Xray the Enforcer adding to your summary list as of the end of Ht9

Spoiler

John has golden eyes which Gideon inherits

Alecto has black eyes

Harrow wakes from the fight at the end in what appears to be the locked tomb, but there's a copy of a fictional titty mag Gideon made up and what looks to be her sword present

Palamedes is a Revenant in a piece of his skull reshaped to be a hand by Harrow

The maths on the number of resurrection beasts was weird -John says there were 9, but the RBs killed+ still alive does not add up to 9.

Gideon the first is dead, his body is inhabited by Pyrrha Dve - his Cavalier who was preserved in a similar method to Gideon make

Pyrrha Dve sometimes got control of his body beforehand and both Gideon and Pyrrha had been having a relationship with Commander Wake/Gideon's mum

Wake has knowledge of Shakespeare, the national anthem of NZ and Eminem 

There are portals to "hell" at the bottom of the river called stoma, they look like mouths and they open for resurrection beasts and John but this is not an exhaustive list as we don't know whether they open for anything that's still living 

John can be destroyed down to the cellular level by someone with 10k years of expert medical knowledge and Lyctoral powers and his cells simply regroup anyway

A blood of Eden shuttle showed up near the Mithraeum. Camilla, Corona, Judith Deuteros and Gideon's corpse were on it

Judith was still very loyal to the Emperor, the other two less clear

Additional information from As Yet Unsent, the bonus material added to the Ht9 ebook / paperback. I consider this part of Ht9 now but you might not

Spoiler

Gideon's corpse does not decompose at all. Months later even after exposure to environmental conditions that should hasten rot, it's still a fresh corpse.

Corona is working with BoE, Cam less clear where her true loyalties are

Mercymorn was semi regularly visiting BoE, had explained travel via Stele and given them a shuttle with one that they're supposed to get Judith to use for them 

[Maia]

Thanks, I guess I just have to wait for the final book to learn the answers. At least I didn't miss anything of substance.

 

19 minutes ago, karaddin said:

 

@Xray the Enforcer adding to your summary list as of the end of Ht9

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John has golden eyes which Gideon inherits

Alecto has black eyes

 

A slight correction - it is currently the other way round, which was an important plot point in Ht9.

 

19 minutes ago, karaddin said:

Additional information from As Yet Unsent, the bonus material added to the Ht9 ebook / paperback. I consider this part of Ht9 now but you might not

  Hide contents

 

Mercymorn was semi regularly visiting BoE, had explained travel via Stele and given them a shuttle with one that they're supposed to get Judith to use for them

Hm, I wonder why they even needed it, though, given that they have alternative methods.

[karaddin]

29 minutes ago, Maia said:

A slight correction - it is currently the other way round, which was an important plot point in Ht9.

Hm, I wonder why they even needed it, though, given that they have alternative methods.

Bolded - whoops yes, I meant to include that detail lol. Those are their original eyes but they're swapped.

Second part - Depends on how it works, the Mithraeum is several times further away from Earth than the edge of the observable universe. Without completely non linear travel that's an ungodly distance by the standards of every SF property that exists.

[Poobah]

I enjoyed Nona a lot, though it is my third / least favourite of the series. I have a lot of currently very disorganised thoughts that I need to take some time to sort out and write down properly.

Regarding the comments about FTL, something that stood out to me as interesting given some of what we learn in Nona was this comment from John early in Harrow:

Spoiler

Quote

"Faster-than-light travel turned out to be a snare - the way it was originally cracked, anyway. The first method destroyed time and distance, rendering it unusable for any good purpose..."

I feel like this off the cuff remark is more than just a casual one off line to explain why they travel via necromancy and opens up some interesting questions/theories.

[Xray the Enforcer]

LOL 

Spoiler

John Gaius is such an ass

 

Edited September 18, 2022 by Xray the Enforcer

[Mlle. Zabzie]

I have lots of thoughts, but completely non-spoiler, you can pull out your friendly [Gideon] Bible and note that the John verses are thematically correct.  I’ll note that the first John verse (20:8) for instance is “Then the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went in; he saw and believed.”  The second (5:20) is “For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing.  He will show him even greater things to do than this, and you will all be amazed.”  The third (15:23) is “Whoever hates me hates my father also”…..

Spoiler

Also, I hear you on names, but they are also song lyrics.  Born in the morning is from Defying Gravity.  Beautiful Ruby, I think is either Ruby Baby (the baby keeps coming up), or, more likely, Third Eye Blind, A Most Beautiful Ruby Red.  Honesty is Billy Joel.  

 

[karaddin]

9 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

I have lots of thoughts, but completely non-spoiler, you can pull out your friendly [Gideon] Bible and note that the John verses are thematically correct.  I’ll note that the first John verse (20:8) for instance is “Then the other disciple, who had reached the tomb first, also went in; he saw and believed.”  The second (5:20) is “For the Father loves the Son and shows him all that he himself is doing.  He will show him even greater things to do than this, and you will all be amazed.”  The third (15:23) is “Whoever hates me hates my father also”…..

  Hide contents

Also, I hear you on names, but they are also song lyrics.  Born in the morning is from Defying Gravity.  Beautiful Ruby, I think is either Ruby Baby (the baby keeps coming up), or, more likely, Third Eye Blind, A Most Beautiful Ruby Red.  Honesty is Billy Joel.  

 

Talented people are ridiculous lol, having things that work on multiple levels always feels so satisfying. Another note on one of the names

Spoiler

Kiriona is apparently the translation of Gideon into Maori. I don't think this one is a case of Nona hearing the true meaning though because I'm pretty sure Kiriona comments to the effect of "being called Gideon reminds me I used to be her"?

I think one of my favourite conception of how the characters stand is

Spoiler

Harrow's body / Nona starts the book as 

1. Bottom layer - Alecto's memories and personality buried
2. Middle layer - Part of Alecto sans memories, holding the steering wheel ie IN CONTROL
3. Top layer - a mix of
   1. The part of Gideon that Harrow ate (ie the Cheeseburger from the interview with Tamsyn) aka Gideon's heart
   2. Some part of Harrow, possibly the part that refused to let go of Gideon

Gideon's corpse is Kiriona aka Gideon minus the heart

Alecto's body is

1. Whatever part of Alecto's soul which remains in her body, I think this is actually most of it - its a big soul
2. Most of Harrow's soul, minus the part that's still in her own body - I'll note the Harrow/Alecto melange in the John chapters is not at all concerned about Gideon although its pretty submerged in Alecto's conscousness so although its identifying as Harrow I don't think she's actually the majority of it
3. The part of John's soul that is contained in Alecto which is actually the part telling the story to Alecto!Harrowhark

The theory I read that felt really solid is that when Nona kisses Kiriona, the part of Gideon in Harrow's body starts returning to her own body and was apparently the part that was binding the souls inside Harrow's body together. Harrow's soul also snaps back to her own body once Alecto/Nona vacate it and its in close proximity. This explains 

1. Nona's swift deterioration after this point - yes she somehow knew she only had the 5 days left, but physically she's still 100% fine when Pyrrha uses her to break the ward and at full hyper regeneration. A few hours later she's almost completely detached from the body
2. Kiriona seems to become progressively more "Gideon" over the period she's in the book, especially at the very end after Nona's soul has completely left Harrow's body - presumably the rest of her soul would have poured out at the point Harrow was completely sundered
3. Having Gideon back as Gideon and Harrow back as Harrow for the final book which I expect to be the case

I was braced for emotional punches at the end of the book, but the one that really caught me off guard early was 

Spoiler

Pyrrha mourning Cam while she's still alive in the short flashback to Nona's last day at the beach. It was too sincere and it made me know Cam wasn't living out the book as Cam.

 

[Mlle. Zabzie]

18 hours ago, karaddin said:

Talented people are ridiculous lol, having things that work on multiple levels always feels so satisfying. Another note on one of the names

  Reveal hidden contents

Kiriona is apparently the translation of Gideon into Maori. I don't think this one is a case of Nona hearing the true meaning though because I'm pretty sure Kiriona comments to the effect of "being called Gideon reminds me I used to be her"?

I think one of my favourite conception of how the characters stand is

  Reveal hidden contents

Harrow's body / Nona starts the book as 

1. Bottom layer - Alecto's memories and personality buried
2. Middle layer - Part of Alecto sans memories, holding the steering wheel ie IN CONTROL
3. Top layer - a mix of
   1. The part of Gideon that Harrow ate (ie the Cheeseburger from the interview with Tamsyn) aka Gideon's heart
   2. Some part of Harrow, possibly the part that refused to let go of Gideon

Gideon's corpse is Kiriona aka Gideon minus the heart

Alecto's body is

1. Whatever part of Alecto's soul which remains in her body, I think this is actually most of it - its a big soul
2. Most of Harrow's soul, minus the part that's still in her own body - I'll note the Harrow/Alecto melange in the John chapters is not at all concerned about Gideon although its pretty submerged in Alecto's conscousness so although its identifying as Harrow I don't think she's actually the majority of it
3. The part of John's soul that is contained in Alecto which is actually the part telling the story to Alecto!Harrowhark

The theory I read that felt really solid is that when Nona kisses Kiriona, the part of Gideon in Harrow's body starts returning to her own body and was apparently the part that was binding the souls inside Harrow's body together. Harrow's soul also snaps back to her own body once Alecto/Nona vacate it and its in close proximity. This explains 

1. Nona's swift deterioration after this point - yes she somehow knew she only had the 5 days left, but physically she's still 100% fine when Pyrrha uses her to break the ward and at full hyper regeneration. A few hours later she's almost completely detached from the body
2. Kiriona seems to become progressively more "Gideon" over the period she's in the book, especially at the very end after Nona's soul has completely left Harrow's body - presumably the rest of her soul would have poured out at the point Harrow was completely sundered
3. Having Gideon back as Gideon and Harrow back as Harrow for the final book which I expect to be the case

I was braced for emotional punches at the end of the book, but the one that really caught me off guard early was 

  Reveal hidden contents

Pyrrha mourning Cam while she's still alive in the short flashback to Nona's last day at the beach. It was too sincere and it made me know Cam wasn't living out the book as Cam.

 

I have gone down the rabbit hole on the biblical parts of this one (just like I did with Greek drama in previous…)

Spoiler

I mean, 3 in one?  Yeah, that’s happening.  And John is, himself, a gnostic Arian heresy (layers and layers).  I love that earlier in the book he laughs that people called him the anti-Christ…because…he’s the anti-Christ!  I’m probably reading too much into it all, some of it’s a little too on the nose to be accidental.  (Like of course it’s the 9th house - 3, three times….)

Also, Alecto is the fury of rage.  

 

[karaddin]

@Mlle. ZabzieYeah I don't think you're deeper down the rabbit hole than the hole actually is in this case. Did that even make sense? Lol. I saw in a thread on Reddit 

Spoiler

a prediction that given the shadow that her Catholic* upbringing casts over this series there's a good chance Gideon-Harrow-Alecto form a Trinity lyctorhood which replaces John for the end state. I guess we'd have Alecto the father, Gideon the son and Harrow the Holy Spirit.

I've also seen some exploration of Paul as the name for Hectus but haven't taken in anything well enough to repeat here aside from them being an embodiment of the "Love is/isn't x" passage from Corinthians. Just thought it worth mentioning as another angle to look at. My normal associations with Paul don't tend to be positive so it's certainly not going to be my strength.

*Just also want to note that there are significant differences between US Catholics, and their cultural position within the society, and Aus Catholics. I was also raised Catholic and the NZ ones seem much closer to Aus, which isn't exactly shocking 

 

[karaddin]

Oh one question I don't think I've seen covered

Spoiler

What exactly happens when Nona throws a tantrum? Maybe I was racing and read it too fast but I don't think we get a good idea of the whole thing. The third tantrum (there's 3 again Zabz) is the only one on screen, we see her recklessly throwing herself at her bonds to the point of near/actually tearing her limbs off and pushing her high speed regeneration to it's limits, resulting in one of the other souls in the body to tell her (rather rudely) to stop because she's hurting/will kill "her". This could be any of Alecto, Harrow or Gideon talking about harming Harrow (directly) or Gideon (via drawing too heavily on her soul for regeneration. I lean towards Harrow protecting Gideon because the sentence reads more like her.

But none of that actually seems to warrant the weight the tantrums are given by the narrative and Cam/Pal/Pyrrha. I think there's also mention of her screaming in a particular way which does... Something? I'm thinking that's actually the issue but no idea what it actually means and what the danger is. At minimum I guess it could be foreshadowing her resurrection beast nature, but given how much of this series takes on new meaning when seen from the perspective of later books (easiest example - Cytherea reacting to Gideon's eyes) so I think there might be more to come on this front 

Which also reminds me of an idea I had based on the info from As Yet Unsent (so no Nona spoilers)

Spoiler

Given the weirdness with her body refusing to die or even decompose when her soul has left the building I think that Gideon, while she's alive, might be obviously not a normal human to lyctoral senses. Cytherea is the only Lyctor to have encountered Gideon in this state and literally the first instant they could possibly interact she's already putting on a performance to get Gideon's attention and manipulate her. The very first time she's alone she's asking to see her eyes. It would certainly fit if Cytherea suspected what she was from the jump, or at least knew there was something weird about her.

I wouldn't be surprised if she's a complete void to lyctoral senses like other Lyctors, this would make her fake fall an excuse to touch her and get around that limitation.

 

[Ser Not Appearing]

I'm about halfway through and enjoying this one quite a lot. There's a really nice balance of naivety, curiosity and mystery in the perspective of Nona.

In some ways it feels like little has happened but I'm sure many things will have been revealed as more important than expected once I get to the end; lots of little arrows pointing a direction I didn't fully pick up on.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

More rabbit hole stuff (I love a puzzle):

Spoiler

John 1:20:  Should be read in context with John 1:19.  The two verses are:  “Now this was John’s testimony when the Jews of Jerusalem sent priests and Levites to ask him who he was. (19)  He did not fail to confess, but confessed freely, “I am not the Christ.” (20)”.

Each cavalier has a numbered last name.  Cassiopeia’s was Nigella Shodash.  Shodash is 16.  There are apparently 16 members of the leadership of the 6th House.

“Angel” and “messenger” are often used interchangeably in the Bible.  Evangel(os/ine) comes from same root.  Aim may or may not be Aimee.  

Also, at the end, in the cave, the narrator (at that point “who” is of course up for grabs) paraphrases over and over John 3:16:  “For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life.”  

 

 

[karaddin]

The other thing there

Spoiler

The messenger names are also gags, I didn't realize it myself but "AIM Messenger" and "MSN Messenger" (I think the one we don't meet was Emma Sen or something). But them being gags doesn't mean they're not also something else, that's often a good way to hide things while still setting it up.

Good point on Angel meaning messenger anyway, can't believe I didn't twig to that.

Amusingly on the 

Spoiler

16

thing, One Piece fandom have been going nuts about that this last week as well with conspiracy theories about what it means in that story.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

4 hours ago, karaddin said:

The other thing there

  Reveal hidden contents

The messenger names are also gags, I didn't realize it myself but "AIM Messenger" and "MSN Messenger" (I think the one we don't meet was Emma Sen or something). But them being gags doesn't mean they're not also something else, that's often a good way to hide things while still setting it up.

Good point on Angel meaning messenger anyway, can't believe I didn't twig to that.

Amusingly on the 

  Reveal hidden contents

16

thing, One Piece fandom have been going nuts about that this last week as well with conspiracy theories about what it means in that story.

Hah!  That’s amazing.  Thanks for sharing.  Linkage to conspiracy theories?  I love a fictional conspiracy. 

 

 

[Xray the Enforcer]

Spoilers for AIM/the Angel through the end of the book and also for Nona

Spoiler

OK so there are hints that the Angel/AIM is more than they're saying -- not to mention the fact that different people use different pronouns for them in the book. One character even "misgenders" AIM as "she" and then corrects it to "they". (this happens when everyone leaves the barracks to chase down the Convoy)

So....is AIM one of the original missing Lyctors (and thus the pronoun correction is actually to the plural "they" rather than the singular "they")? Or maybe another stealth Resurrection Beast like Alecto/Nona?

Also LOL Harrow's girlfriend is a pile of dirt and vomit and John's floating ribs. <-- which damn, what a hellish mash-up of Eve and a golem. 

 

Edited September 24, 2022 by Xray the Enforcer

[karaddin]

He's

Spoiler

The man who became God, and the God who used Barbie as a template for the personification of the planet that birthed him. Normal things.

I hate how much I'm still entertained by him

 

[Ser Not Appearing]

I really should have reread books one and two before I read this book. Having now read it, I probably still need to go back to the other two books ... or at least the second one.