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US Politics: OBAMAGATE - An American Story


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28 minutes ago, teej6 said:

This is rich. So, the DNC should just ignore and cast away the choice of all those millions of voters who voted for Biden in the primaries? I hear this argument so much from the left and Bernie supporters (just to be clear, not stating you are one). How is this any different from Trump and the republicans trying to disenfranchise voters? 

Oh, he's the biggest Bernie Bro we got here. Just a heads up.

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28 minutes ago, Simon Steele said:

I am a Bernie supporter. Or I was. But he's don. And a lot of those votes were also cast before Biden allegations. Whether they're true or not, they're hurting him.

Unless you can show me a way to hold the primaries again in all the 50 states in the middle of a pandemic, your point is moot. And FYI, based on the polls I’m seeing, the Reade story hasn’t hurt Biden all that much. All it’s done is given Bernie supporters a talking point and false hope that Biden will be forced to quit and the DNC and the voting public will declare Bernie the winner by default. Thankfully, the DNC and the voting public (most of them) are smarter than that.

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I wonder what the reaction would be from Sanders supporters if he was the nominee and people were advocating the DNC to step in and remove him because he's a "seriously flawed candidate" based on one allegation.  Even after Biden not only dropped out and endorsed Sanders, but is actively working with his campaign to try and unify the party.

Also, it's entirely illogical to simultaneously argue "voters didn't know" about Reade's accusations during the primary cycle and point to Biden's history of creepy touching.  When it comes to the latter, I agree, it's something that been quite obvious for years if not decades to any potential voter - plus it received broad coverage and attention before anyone starting voting.  Then voters still chose Biden over Sanders.

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26 minutes ago, teej6 said:

Unless you can show me a way to hold the primaries again in all the 50 states in the middle of a pandemic, your point is moot. And FYI, based on the polls I’m seeing, the Reade story hasn’t hurt Biden all that much. All it’s done is given Bernie supporters a talking point and false hope that Biden will be forced to quit and the DNC and the voting public will declare Bernie the winner by default. Thankfully, the DNC and the voting public (most of them) are smarter than that.

A slim minority of Sanders supporters believe this would allow him back in. Most don't want/expect that. They do want someone other than Biden. I don't think Sanders would take that offer if it were ever broached. I've already said why it'd be a terrible idea in another post.

But like I said before, the chances of this being rectified are nil. Still, it's worth thinking about before Biden is nominated.

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1 hour ago, Ran said:

Wasn't me that brought up unproven allegations of misconduct as being a reason to disavow the candidate who has essentially won the primary and over-rule the will of primary voters.

 

 

Even if the allegation against Warren was in any way credible, it wouldn't be in any way the same ballpark as the one against Biden, since there's no allegation of lack of consent in it.

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5 hours ago, Zorral said:

Whatever the perceived need is to vote for Biden, the fact remains that he's a shit candidate, embodying all the worst of the bankrupt DNC political establishment when it comes even to an idea: he just twitted an attempted attack from the right, on Trump, on being too soft on ... get this boyz and girlz ... Cuba.  Sigh.

The best response to that tweet was short and sweet: "Cuba is a better country than the USA by far and the whole world knows it."

I, for one, don't know it. And I'm a pretty left wing person who will happily praise the good stuff Cuba does. I just don't forget about the bad stuff.

The US is flawed. But to say that Cuba is the 'better country by far' is pretty morally unsound. Don't take my word for it: listen to Human Rights Watch.

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/cuba

4 hours ago, Simon Steele said:

Scot, it's a fair question, but I really don't believe this is a binary "this or that" issue right now. Biden isn't officially the nominee. There is time for the DNC to step in and do something about it.

There really isn't, in any practical sense. There is nothing the DNC could possibly do at this stage that would not lead to chaos, division and inevitable defeat. It would be naive to pretend otherwise. Biden's not the candidate any of us would have chosen, but trying to replace him is the surest way to guarantee four more years of Trump.

 

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Quote

 

The accounting method will require public schools—which are only receiving new federal money based on their poor students—to reserve multiple times more money for private schools than the CARES Act requires.

In Passaic, New Jersey, where the majority of public school students are poor, the district will need to reserve $1.4 million instead of $300,000 for private school students, according to an education advocacy group in that state. Montana estimates it will need to reserve $1.5 million for private schools rather than $206,469 it believes the law requires, The New York Times reports.

This will only increase the challenges that the highest poverty schools face. Before the pandemic even hit, public schools serving the highest-poverty communities had $1,000 less per student than those educating affluent students. These shortfalls are likely to expand based on current economic conditions.

 

Betsy DeVos Is Robbing Poor Kids of Coronavirus Relief Funds
Public school districts have been told to reserve money, intended to help low-income children, for private schools.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/betsy-devos-is-robbing-poor-kids-of-coronavirus-relief-funds?ref=home

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19 minutes ago, mormont said:

I, for one, don't know it. And I'm a pretty left wing person who will happily praise the good stuff Cuba does. I just don't forget about the bad stuff.

 

You're not allowed to make any negative judgements on Cuba around Zorral unless you've been there. His experience of what people there think is the only relevant one, regardless of what other first or second accounts you might have seen or read, especially if those accounts are negative.

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Gotta say I'm enjoying Obama continuing to lean in on criticizing Trump.  Also enjoying McConnell responding by telling a former president to "shut his mouth," and generally how much it rankles not only Trump but the GOP leadership.  While I thoroughly enjoyed it at the time - and still do - Obama's complete and utter roasting of Trump at the WH correspondents dinner was probably the main impetus for Trump to run.  Time for Obama to make amends.

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57 minutes ago, mormont said:

The US is flawed. But to say that Cuba is the 'better country by far' is pretty morally unsound. Don't take my word for it: listen to Human Rights Watch.

https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/cuba

Really -- this is worse than just for starters this week what the US has done against its own people, forcing the CDC to shut down Bill Gate's C19 testing program, shutting down essentially the CDC, firing everyone that doesn't agree that the virus is just going away, refusing testing, tracing and counting so nobody knows how high the infection and sickeness numbers are, and the death numbers too?  That's just for starters.  While Cuba is actually protecting and helping its citizens to survive the virus with as few numbers as possible, which are definitely declining.

In the meantime Biden speaks naught of any of this -- not even of the clown car invasion of Venezuela to 'extract' Maduro. This is worse than Cuba?  The media is too terrified to call for this demented incompetent's resignation. This is better than Cuba? Want to complain that the Cuban government gets paid for its Cuban medical teams (people who have received their education from pre-K through medical school at no expense other than the state's) in disaster areas like Brasil and Italy, when the white house dementos are determined there will be no vaccine or any other medical help for its own citizens even unless it makes a vast profit? And thus denying us all the help we need? This is better than Cuban

This point it's not useful to put faith in much of that so called Human Rights Watch at this point; everything is poisoned from the well of the White House because everyone for reasons that make no sense are terrified of the emperors with no clothes.

Cubans have every confidence in their government and medical system to get them through this.  The US citizens have zero confidence in theirs -- yes in our heroic medical workers, but not those controlling their actions and refusing to even get them outfitted in protective masks and gloves -- and report the numbers.

The point of my post you all enjoy sneering at is to say this was nothingberger by Big Joe Biden in his takin' on the trumpistas.  Ya, that's SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO effective.  But you all don't wanna talk about that. Or that Obama is taking on Trump, but Biden is trashing Obama's achievement of opening Cuba economically and many other ways. Diversion! Derail! the subject of Biden's and the DNC establishment's incompetence in every way.  Like Trump insist the Virus hasn't the numbers, the tests are huge and it is all going away.

 

 

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2 minutes ago, Zorral said:

The media is too terrified to call for this demented incompetent's resignation.

Well, I think they're also confused what office exactly Joe Biden is supposed to resign from.  His basement?  Then they'd be confused why he's supposed to resign due to some insane overreaction to Biden's comments on Cuba, which only maybe about 1% of voters even remotely care about.

6 minutes ago, Zorral said:

This point it's not useful to put faith in much of that so called Human Rights Watch at this point; everything is poisoned from the well of the White House because everyone for reasons that make no sense are terrified of the emperors with no clothes.

Ha!  A 40 year old non-profit NGO is "poisoned" due to the Trump White House?  

15 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Also wtf is this about Cuba now? Is there some in joke I missed?

Not really no.  The only "in" joke is that Zorral passionately defends any slights - perceived or otherwise - against the Cuban government.

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35 minutes ago, Zorral said:

But you all don't wanna talk about that. Or that Obama is taking on Trump, but Biden is trashing Obama's achievement of opening Cuba economically and many other ways.

Um, his tweet attacking Trump and opposing Cuba rejoining the UN human rights council hardly means he's "trashing Obama's achievement" on opening up Cuba.  Quite the opposite:

Quote

Former Vice President Joe Biden said Monday he would return to Obama-era policies of engagement with Cuba and reverse the Trump administration's sanctions if he wins the White House race in November.

“In large part, I would go back,” Biden said in an interview with a CBS affiliate in Miami. “I’d still insist they keep the commitments they said they would make when we, in fact, set the policy in place.”

President Trump in 2017 reimposed economic sanctions on Cuba, imposed travel restrictions that had been relaxed under former President Obama and largely abandoned diplomatic engagement with the country.

 

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5 hours ago, Mexal said:

Not sure I understand? You're telling me the crime was FISA? Or they violated FISA by unmasking Flynn?

FISA is not the same issue.  Or at least, there are other FISA violations apart from the Flynn case.  Carter Page was, apparently, in contact with the Russians on behalf of the CIA.  But that latter bit wasn't included in the warrant request to the FISA court when looking into, I believe, the pee dossier.  (The most salacious allegation of which never made any sense to me - how does having prostitutes pee on your hotel room's bed get back at Obama somehow?  I'd think it would just smell bad and raise the humidity somewhat but maybe I'm a little too vanilla.)  So the FBI, knowing that Page's (or maybe it was Papadaupolous? but I think Page) contact with the Russians was on behalf of US intelligence, spins it as pro Russian to let them listen in ("wire tap" was Trump's technically wrong but essentially correct description) of the planning going on in Trump's inner circle.  IIRC the FISA stuff started before the election, Flynn specific stuff was during transition period.

Curious to see what's going to happen in the Senate now.  McConnell is actually ruthlessly effective when it comes to getting what he wants, eg judicial appointments, but he has a much bigger connection to the establishment than Trump.  That he has forced Burr (RINO squish) off of the Intelligence Committee may be a sign that he's picking a side...

 

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3 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

That he has forced Burr (RINO squish) off of the Intelligence Committee may be a sign that he's picking a side...

I mean, most of your arguments don't even warrant a response, but this one takes the cake.  McConnell "forced" Burr off the Intelligence Committee because now he's a "RINO" (which by definition is any GOP member the right is unable to continue to defend even to their own people)?  As opposed to, ya know, the plain hard fact of the matter Burr resigned his committeeships because of his own investment scandal:

Quote

The insider trading investigation stemming from Sen. Richard Burr’s sale of stocks ahead of the coronavirus pandemic highlights the North Carolina Republican’s long record of investing in companies with business before his committees, according to a POLITICO review of eight years of his trades.

While Burr sat on committees focused on health care, taxes and trade, he and his wife bought and sold hundreds of thousands of dollars of stock in an array of health care companies, banks and corporations with business overseas. At times, Burr owned stock in companies whose specific industries he advanced through legislation.

 

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23 minutes ago, DMC said:

I mean, most of your arguments don't even warrant a response, but this one takes the cake.  McConnell "forced" Burr off the Intelligence Committee because now he's a "RINO" (which by definition is any GOP member the right is unable to continue to defend even to their own people)?  As opposed to, ya know, the plain hard fact of the matter Burr resigned his committeeships because of his own investment scandal:

 

Clearly the investment thing was the pretext, I thought that went without saying.  But he's getting tossed from the committee chair, not out of the Senate entirely.  Is this Mitch just cutting his losses, or is he preparing for future hearings? 

I wasn't saying he forced off because he was a RINO, I was saying I won't miss him as Intel chair because he's a pro-establishment squish, and was wondering if there was a reason beyond the Senate policing itself.  Which let's be honest, the Senate policing itself would be a hilarious joke if the need for it weren't so deadly serious.

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