Who is the woman in The House of the Undying?

[BridgeofFire]

*SPOILER* 

When Daenerys vists the house of the undying she sees quite a lot of strange and even disturbing things. She sees the foreshadowing of the Red Wedding. She sees her father raving upon the Iron Throne. I think she also sees baby Aegon with Elia and Rhaegar. The point is that everything she sees happened or is going to happen and we basically know who everyone is except the first vision of the woman. In that vision it’s little men crawl on this lady and I was wondering if we know that was or if that is yet to be found out.
 

 

 

[Many-Faced Votary]

This vision is a metaphor for the War of the Five Kings.

The beautiful woman is symbolic of Westeros. As Daenerys recalls earlier in the same book, "Viserys always said the Seven Kingdoms were more beautiful than any other place in the world" (Daenerys II, A Clash of Kings).

The four ugly little men ravaging her are reflective of the pettiness inherent to the high lords playing the Game of Thrones, in which the various self-styled kings are ravaging the Seven Kingdoms. The reason there are four rather than five is that there were only four kings at a time during the war proper: Balon declared after Renly was assassinated, after this point in the books.

[Megorova]

I think that that woman is Seven Kingdoms, and the scene depicts the War of Five Kings, but there are only four little men because Robb took part in that war not to "rape" 7K, but to save/avenge his father. Also Robb was present in the next room, he was the king with a wolf's head.

P.S. The woman with Rhaegar's child was Elia, not Lyanna, and the baby was Elia's Aegon not Jon.

By the time when Jon was born, Rhaegar was already dead, he died about 1-2 months prior Jon's birth. Ned found Lyanna in Dorne, in a bed of blood, soon after Jon's birth. Ned was at the Trident, when Robert killed Rhaegar. Then Ned from Trident went to King's Landing, and from there to Storm's End to end siege of that castle, and then from there he went to Dorne. All that traveling took him at least one month. So the woman with Rhaegar and that baby couldn't have been Lyanna and Jon. Furthermore, Elia was Dornish (they look more like Italians, with caramel skin), and Lyanna was a Northerner and First Men (they look more like Irishmen, with pale skin). Even though Dany never knew Elia, if the woman in that vision with Rhaegar wasn't Dornish, Dany would have noticed it, and said that no this can't be my brother Rhaegar with his wife, because his wife was Dornish and this woman isn't.

Furthermore, Elia's Aegon had Targaryen looks, while Jon since his birth looked like a typical Stark, that's why Ned was able at once to pose him as his child.     

[Pontius Pilate]

6 hours ago, Many-Faced Votary said:

This vision is a metaphor for the War of the Five Kings.

The beautiful woman is symbolic of Westeros. As Daenerys recalls earlier in the same book, "Viserys always said the Seven Kingdoms were more beautiful than any other place in the world" (Daenerys II, A Clash of Kings).

The four ugly little men ravaging her are reflective of the pettiness inherent to the high lords playing the Game of Thrones, in which the various self-styled kings are ravaging the Seven Kingdoms. The reason there are four rather than five is that there were only four kings at a time during the war proper: Balon declared after Renly was assassinated, after this point in the books.

Yes.  The four ugly little men are Renly, Stannis, Robb, and Joffrey.  You could argue for Tywin in place of Joffrey because he was the power behind the kid. 

@Megorova  Robb Stark does not get an exception.  He was just as petty as the others.  The Starks wanted to carve the north from Westeros.  They had no right to do that. 

[Targknight]

On 5/15/2020 at 8:01 PM, Pontius Pilate said:

Yes.  The four ugly little men are Renly, Stannis, Robb, and Joffrey.  You could argue for Tywin in place of Joffrey because he was the power behind the kid. 

@Megorova  Robb Stark does not get an exception.  He was just as petty as the others.  The Starks wanted to carve the north from Westeros.  They had no right to do that. 

According to the Brotherhood Without Banners, Starks were raping, and pillaging. 

[300 H&H Magnum]

The woman could indeed be a metaphor for the war.  She may also be literal.  Cersei or Sansa, when the long night brings the dwarves from wherever they hide.  The dwarves "screwing humanity over" and using their genes to breed to seed the women.  

[Targknight]

5 hours ago, 300 H&H Magnum said:

The woman could indeed be a metaphor for the war.  She may also be literal.  Cersei or Sansa, when the long night brings the dwarves from wherever they hide.  The dwarves "screwing humanity over" and using their genes to breed to seed the women.  

Cersei’s walk of shame.

[Castellan]

I don't buy the war of the five 'oh make that four' kings idea.

It immediately reminded me of Cersei who prostitutes herself to minor people (the Kettleblacks, Lancel) to obtain a (false) sense of security. At another point in the series Cersei has a nightmare that she is chained in a dungeon with a dwarf chewing her breast.

Partly it seems to function as a reminder not to go into the rooms - this may be showing what has happened to a woman who did go in. It's horrible when you consider that the house of the undying is basically a great tomb and the servitors are rats that 'service' the dead - we know how they do that. So we can speculate that a beautiful woman with rat men having sex with her - nasty as it is - is a kind of illusion covering 'a dead woman with rats eating her'. Somewhat similar to when Dany feels the Undying descending on her trying to feed on her life force.

The other thing is that it refers to the Norse story about the beautiful golden-haired goddess Freya, wife of Thor, craving a beautiful necklace so much the she agreed to sleep with the dwarves who made it, each on a separate night, as payment for it.

I don't think there is a clear cut meaning that has appeared so far.

 

[U. B. Cool]

It is easy to say this naked woman is Sansa.  The little men are Joff, Tyrion, Petyr, and a future fourth.  They are using her to further their ambitions.  But I don't think Sansa is important enough to take up space in this very important vision though. 

[Pontius Pilate]

On 7/25/2020 at 6:07 PM, Targknight said:

According to the Brotherhood Without Banners, Starks were raping, and pillaging. 

They were no better.  Robb is not Ned.  Ned would not have allowed it.  

[Loose Bolt]

1 hour ago, Pontius Pilate said:

They were no better.  Robb is not Ned.  Ned would not have allowed it.  

Actually all armies in Westeros have to take all food and other supplies they need from civilians bc they do not really have working supply lines. So during rebellion Ned might not been happy about idea that his troops are raiding farms and towns. But he had to allow it or he would not had any available troops.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

On 5/15/2020 at 1:36 PM, Many-Faced Votary said:

This vision is a metaphor for the War of the Five Kings.

The beautiful woman is symbolic of Westeros. As Daenerys recalls earlier in the same book, "Viserys always said the Seven Kingdoms were more beautiful than any other place in the world" (Daenerys II, A Clash of Kings).

The four ugly little men ravaging her are reflective of the pettiness inherent to the high lords playing the Game of Thrones, in which the various self-styled kings are ravaging the Seven Kingdoms. The reason there are four rather than five is that there were only four kings at a time during the war proper: Balon declared after Renly was assassinated, after this point in the books.

I have a thought could the four dwarves ravishing the woman stand for the four Great Houses than the five kings .

[Rose of Red Lake]

On 8/12/2020 at 3:25 AM, Castellan said:

It immediately reminded me of Cersei who prostitutes herself to minor people (the Kettleblacks, Lancel) to obtain a (false) sense of security. At another point in the series Cersei has a nightmare that she is chained in a dungeon with a dwarf chewing her breast.

 sounds like a woman/queen is being abused and this experience feeling powerless will push her to challenge anyone who wants to rule over her again...so ultimately this is a person who will stand in Dany's way.

I thought of Sansa as well. There are 4 people who have used and abused her. Littlefinger, Tyrion, Sandor, and Joffrey.

[MaesterSam]

On 8/12/2020 at 6:25 AM, Castellan said:

It immediately reminded me of Cersei who prostitutes herself to minor people (the Kettleblacks, Lancel) to obtain a (false) sense of security. At another point in the series Cersei has a nightmare that she is chained in a dungeon with a dwarf chewing her breast.

I also think it's Cersei. She is by all accounts a beautiful woman and this scenario is quite literally her worst nightmare. 

I don't believe this is symbolically representing anything though, I think this will literally happen (whether the woman is Cersei or not) because none of the other visions behind the doors are symbolic. They all show the actual events/places with very high accuracy, so why would just the first vision be representative of some bigger concept (like a war)? 

Someone long ago also pointed out how the visions behind the doors seem to be going backwards in time. First the Red Wedding (still in the future at this point), then the house with the red door (10 ish years ago), then mad king Aerys saying burn them all (another few years earlier) and lastly the birth of Aegon to Rhaegar and Elia. So by this logic then the woman being assaulted should be in the more distant future since Dany saw it even before the Red Wedding which hadn't happened yet. 

[Rondo]

On 5/15/2020 at 1:10 PM, BridgeofFire said:

*SPOILER* 

When Daenerys vists the house of the undying she sees quite a lot of strange and even disturbing things. She sees the foreshadowing of the Red Wedding. She sees her father raving upon the Iron Throne. I think she also sees baby Aegon with Elia and Rhaegar. The point is that everything she sees happened or is going to happen and we basically know who everyone is except the first vision of the woman. In that vision it’s little men crawl on this lady and I was wondering if we know that was or if that is yet to be found out.
 

 

 

Visions are of what happened but also of what could happen.  The little men are Robb, Joffrey, Renly, and Stannis.  The woman is the land of Westeros.  The little kings are destroying the land.  The Starks, Lannisters, and Baratheons are vermin on the land which belongs to Dany.  

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

The woman was an older Daenerys trapped in the house of the undying using sex magic . the same way the white haired woman was using blood magic from Bran's vision .

[Lord Lannister]

Crazy theory: The woman represents the fans, and the four dwarves represent seasons 5, 6, 7 and 8 of the abomination.

[chrisdaw]

I agree it's a metaphor for Westeros but for what is coming not what has been. The little rat faced men destroying the woman's reproductive parts symbolise what is going to happen to the future of Westeros by way of its children under the plan of Bloodraven and bondage Euron.

Rats and the death of children. Rat faced men destroying a woman's breasts and vagina here. The Rat Cook peculiarly cursed to only be able to eat his own young. Cheese the rat catcher, forcing a mother to pick which child of hers to die.

[Aebram]

On 2/24/2021 at 3:02 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

There are 4 people who have used and abused her [Sansa]. Littlefinger, Tyrion, Sandor, and Joffrey.

I don't think it's fair to include Tyrion in that list. He didn't want to marry her; he was forced into it, much like she was. He could have taken advantage of the situation, but he was always kind and courteous to her.

[Nathan Stark]

12 hours ago, Lord Lannister said:

Crazy theory: The woman represents the fans, and the four dwarves represent seasons 5, 6, 7 and 8 of the abomination.

I like the way you think, Lannister.