Watch, Watched, Watching: What Now?

[SpaceChampion]

I'm watching Killing Eve lately.  Just into season 1 so far.

[HexMachina]

22 minutes ago, SpaceChampion said:

I'm watching Killing Eve lately.  Just into season 1 so far.

First season is the best. I enjoyed season 2 and season 3 has been ok, but theres a definite decline in quality

[Heartofice]

12 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Glad to hear you finished it and liked it overall.

I think you can argue that three of the four seasons are uneven at times, but that's because some story lines are just better than others, and there are several of them. But even at its worse, the acting is still great, the cinematography is amazing, as are the sets (go read up on how they shot the scenes at sea, pretty great stuff) and the stunt work is incredible. 

Black Sails will probably never get the credit it deserves, but season 2 is about as good as T.V. gets. And frankly, doing a show about pirates, that dedicated to accuracy and realness, will probably not happen again for a good while.

There were definitely times when watching Black Sails where I thought it was the best thing I'd ever seen in my life. Those times were often followed by moments considering whether it was the worst thing I'd ever seen. So it was quite a patchy show. That was especially true in its first season which has moments of dark brilliance and a shakespearean quality, and also moments that feel like exploitative 'straight to DVD' trash. 

I look back at the show fondly though. Season 2ish was the high point and it did take a few risks with its story and characters. Characters experienced real actual change and growth, events actually meant something to the plot and it never felt like the show was just spinning its wheels.

[BigFatCoward]

9 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

First season is the best. I enjoyed season 2 and season 3 has been ok, but theres a definite decline in quality

We stopped after s1. Everyone said it got worse, and I liked leaving it where s1 finished. 

[dbunting]

7 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

We stopped after s1. Everyone said it got worse, and I liked leaving it where s1 finished. 

IMO the beginning of S2 was slow and not my favorite but it does get a lot better after that. 

[Heartofice]

6 minutes ago, dbunting said:

IMO the beginning of S2 was slow and not my favorite but it does get a lot better after that. 

Second season had its highlights but it felt unstructured and rather pointless. 
 

Third season is maybe a slight improvement. I enjoyed the episode in Russia mainly because it was more self contained. Other than that I think the show lost what was good about it after the first season. The writing is not as sparky or snappy and the characters don’t feel real. 
 

Ive gone from thinking Jodie Comer was an acting genius to thinking she’s incompetent and acting like she’s in a pantomime over this time too. Feels like she is trying extra hard to rinse some juice out of the poor writing.

[dbunting]

15 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Glad to hear you finished it and liked it overall.

I think you can argue that three of the four seasons are uneven at times, but that's because some story lines are just better than others, and there are several of them. But even at its worse, the acting is still great, the cinematography is amazing, as are the sets (go read up on how they shot the scenes at sea, pretty great stuff) and the stunt work is incredible. 

Black Sails will probably never get the credit it deserves, but season 2 is about as good as T.V. gets. And frankly, doing a show about pirates, that dedicated to accuracy and realness, will probably not happen again for a good while.

Glad I watched it, thank you Hulu! I have never had Starz before and when I saw it was made by that channel I stayed away from it but saw it was all on Hulu and I needed something new to binge.

As to the historical part I was surprised they stayed so true, of course there were exaggerations and people added but a lot of it was pretty close to the known truth. Loved seeing the ships too. I was able to go to Sweden once for a business trip and while there we visited the Vasa museum. It was a 17th century war ship that wrecked in the area on it's maiden voyage and stayed largely intact and well preserved due to the depth and cold water. The craftsmanship involved in it is just amazing to see in person.

[Astromech]

On 5/21/2020 at 10:09 AM, Heartofice said:

I think you are spot on with your last comment and that really bothered me as well. They couldn’t think of a good way to verbalise what Zoe is thinking so they used this device to make it absolutely obvious to the audience.

The show is total trash, mixing in self serious darker elements with comical violence and gratuitous sex scenes that serve no purpose. 

And the writing and script is so noticeably bad as well. Many of the lines feel like they are written by someone in school or by someone whose first language is not English. 
For instance, is the best nickname ‘Boxer’ could come up with really ‘Harpoon Girl’? And why is his name Boxer anyway?

My other half loves the show though so clearly there is an audience.

Wow, you really hated that show. I just gave up on it. The dog doing lines off the lawn was kind of funny though.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

7 hours ago, Heartofice said:

There were definitely times when watching Black Sails where I thought it was the best thing I'd ever seen in my life. Those times were often followed by moments considering whether it was the worst thing I'd ever seen. So it was quite a patchy show. That was especially true in its first season which has moments of dark brilliance and a shakespearean quality, and also moments that feel like exploitative 'straight to DVD' trash. 

I look back at the show fondly though. Season 2ish was the high point and it did take a few risks with its story and characters. Characters experienced real actual change and growth, events actually meant something to the plot and it never felt like the show was just spinning its wheels.

I tend to agree with this. I really think it was just Max that dragged everything down, even though the actress was doing a good job. She just had a mess to work with. But Flint, Silver, Bonny, Vane and Rackham were all awesome characters with great story arcs. And looking at that list, a majority of them were real people, albeit with slightly altered stories. 

I'm surprised McGowan hasn't gotten more noticeable work (though his IMBD page suggest he is very active). That dude has a fuck ton of charisma. And when I first saw Stephens, all I could think is "is that the goofy Bond villain?" Yup. Now that film was truly an abomination. 

4 hours ago, dbunting said:

Glad I watched it, thank you Hulu! I have never had Starz before and when I saw it was made by that channel I stayed away from it but saw it was all on Hulu and I needed something new to binge.

As to the historical part I was surprised they stayed so true, of course there were exaggerations and people added but a lot of it was pretty close to the known truth. Loved seeing the ships too. I was able to go to Sweden once for a business trip and while there we visited the Vasa museum. It was a 17th century war ship that wrecked in the area on it's maiden voyage and stayed largely intact and well preserved due to the depth and cold water. The craftsmanship involved in it is just amazing to see in person.

I've always wanted to go to Sweden. I feel like literally every picture I've seen of the place is gorgeous. But then again I want to go to most places. My dream trip would be to fly to Cape Town and work my way to Cairo, without any time restrictions. 

I have been to Nassau a few times, where the show is based on (and before Googling I didn't even know they shot a lot of this in Cape Town, funny). The limbo contest I saw there was literally straight out of Futurama:
 

 

[dbunting]

41 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I tend to agree with this. I really think it was just Max that dragged everything down, even though the actress was doing a good job. She just had a mess to work with. But Flint, Silver, Bonny, Vane and Rackham were all awesome characters with great story arcs. And looking at that list, a majority of them were real people, albeit with slightly altered stories. 

I'm surprised McGowan hasn't gotten more noticeable work (though his IMBD page suggest he is very active). That dude has a fuck ton of charisma. And when I first saw Stephens, all I could think is "is that the goofy Bond villain?" Yup. Now that film was truly an abomination. 

I've always wanted to go to Sweden. I feel like literally every picture I've seen of the place is gorgeous. But then again I want to go to most places. My dream trip would be to fly to Cape Town and work my way to Cairo, without any time restrictions. 

I have been to Nassau a few times, where the show is based on (and before Googling I didn't even know they shot a lot of this in Cape Town, funny). The limbo contest I saw there was literally straight out of Futurama:
 

 

Yep, Max and her story lines were what dragged it down for me too, wasn't sure if I was alone in that but she felt like Black Sails version of Dorne.

As to Sweden, I was in Stockholm and it was pretty amazing looking. We drove outside the city for our business trip but nothing struck me as being all that great visually on the drive. For that it would be Germany. One leg of the trip we ended up taking a train from south of Frankfurt to Wurzberg and the trip follows the Main river and along the way you can see a lot of old castles up the hillside/mountain side, a lot of vineyards as well. 

[Veltigar]

Finished the latest episode of Harley Quinn. It turns out there are still 5 more episodes to come this season so I'm both terrifically happy there is more content coming and profoundly sad that I'll have to wait until they drop.

On top of that, I saw the first episode of Belgravia. If the pilot is anything to go by, this is going to be far more adult than Downton Abbey (it's from the same creator). It's dark, moody and much more aware of class divide I'd say. The story is quite predictable though as I feel that

Spoiler

the wedding we see in the first episode will probably turn out to have been real all along, thus securing legitimacy for the boy we have not met yet.

Still, I'd recommend it based solely on that first episode for people who like period drama's. There is something about these BBC/ITV predictions that make it the ideal lazy Sunday afternoon fodder for me.

21 hours ago, dbunting said:

Just finished Black Sails. Really good series, better than I had expected. There were a lot of times where I felt it was S.O.A all over again but it was better acted, better written, better visuals and had a better ending. The ending left you to wonder if a certain person did go to a certain place, have to decide for yourself. One other I did enjoy was the inclusion of so many actual people and events from that era including Mary Reed and the jolly roger in the end.

I'll join the pack of well-wishers. Glad that someone else has discovered this series. Such a shame it never got the attention it deserved.

21 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Glad to hear you finished it and liked it overall.

I think you can argue that three of the four seasons are uneven at times, but that's because some story lines are just better than others, and there are several of them. But even at its worse, the acting is still great, the cinematography is amazing, as are the sets (go read up on how they shot the scenes at sea, pretty great stuff) and the stunt work is incredible. 
 

Now you have made me curious good sir! 

I remember visiting SA and seeing the sets they had build for it from a distance. Pretty impressive stuff.

8 hours ago, Heartofice said:

There were definitely times when watching Black Sails where I thought it was the best thing I'd ever seen in my life. Those times were often followed by moments considering whether it was the worst thing I'd ever seen. So it was quite a patchy show. That was especially true in its first season which has moments of dark brilliance and a shakespearean quality, and also moments that feel like exploitative 'straight to DVD' trash. 

Yeah, I get what you mean. I think its first episode perfectly encapsulates that. On the one hand you have that absolutely amazing speech Toby Stephens makes and on the other hand you have Silver visiting the brothel and encountering 'Black Beard'  It's like, pick a lane show, either commit to quality drama or go the GoT road.

8 hours ago, Heartofice said:

I look back at the show fondly though. Season 2ish was the high point and it did take a few risks with its story and characters. Characters experienced real actual change and growth, events actually meant something to the plot and it never felt like the show was just spinning its wheels.

Agreed and that was sometimes quite surprising. I really admired Toby Stephens Flint from the get-go, but I was amazed how far Silver went as the seasons progressed. Didn't like the portrayal of that character in the first season, but I can actually credibly see how he goes from that first season dweep to the man who would become Long John Silver.

 

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

I tend to agree with this. I really think it was just Max that dragged everything down, even though the actress was doing a good job. She just had a mess to work with. But Flint, Silver, Bonny, Vane and Rackham were all awesome characters with great story arcs. And looking at that list, a majority of them were real people, albeit with slightly altered stories. 

I'm surprised McGowan hasn't gotten more noticeable work (though his IMBD page suggest he is very active). That dude has a fuck ton of charisma. And when I first saw Stephens, all I could think is "is that the goofy Bond villain?" Yup. Now that film was truly an abomination. 

It's partly the actress though in Max's case, although the major mistake the show made was to

Spoiler

keep her around for so long. When we met her, I was pretty sure that she was going to become Silver's wife from the book. That obviously didn't happen and I feel like that was a mistake. Either have her become Silver's wife or retire the character after she served her purpose and remove her from the narrative.

Mcgowan's IMDB page is rough. That man is stuck in a lot of trash even though he was one of the people who developed really nicely. I remember in the old threads he had a lot of fans from the beginning, but I never warmed to him during that 

Spoiler

first season. Afterwards though, really marked improvement

And Toby Stephens is acting royalty. His mother is Dame Maggie Smith. It truly is a shame that he likes the theatre more, because he should be in a lot more films. Far and away the best actor of the bunch.

I never really hated Die Another Day (it's just a film that is kind of there), but apparently it was his experience on that film that turned him away from movie acting for such a long time  such a damn shame

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, dbunting said:

Yep, Max and her story lines were what dragged it down for me too, wasn't sure if I was alone in that but she felt like Black Sails version of Dorne.

More or less. Jessica Parker Kennedy was the actress I was swooning over on the show, and I actually think she did a very good job at what she was asked to do, but the character just didn't work a lot of the time. Her motivations made sense, but her dialogue was just flat out bad at times, and you can't fault the actor for that. 

Without knowing anything about the writers and their gender and racial diversity, I'm guessing they are mainly men. The male lead characters are really well done. But the female lead characters are so hit or miss. Paget's Bonny was the best, but even then it didn't seem like she got a lot to work with, whereas then men got so much to play with. 

Quote

As to Sweden, I was in Stockholm and it was pretty amazing looking. We drove outside the city for our business trip but nothing struck me as being all that great visually on the drive. For that it would be Germany. One leg of the trip we ended up taking a train from south of Frankfurt to Wurzberg and the trip follows the Main river and along the way you can see a lot of old castles up the hillside/mountain side, a lot of vineyards as well. 

Idk, Midsommar had some of the most beautiful set scenes I've ever seen, but where I come from that kind of landscape is not uncommon, and it's so amazing. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

23 minutes ago, Veltigar said:

Now you have made me curious good sir! 

I remember visiting SA and seeing the sets they had build for it from a distance. Pretty impressive stuff.

Yeah, I get what you mean. I think its first episode perfectly encapsulates that. On the one hand you have that absolutely amazing speech Toby Stephens makes and on the other hand you have Silver visiting the brothel and encountering 'Black Beard'  It's like, pick a lane show, either commit to quality drama or go the GoT road.

Agreed and that was sometimes quite surprising. I really admired Toby Stephens Flint from the get-go, but I was amazed how far Silver went as the seasons progressed. Didn't like the portrayal of that character in the first season, but I can actually credibly see how he goes from that first season dweep to the man who would become Long John Silver.

 

It's partly the actress though in Max's case, although the major mistake the show made was to

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keep her around for so long. When we met her, I was pretty sure that she was going to become Silver's wife from the book. That obviously didn't happen and I feel like that was a mistake. Either have her become Silver's wife or retire the character after she served her purpose and remove her from the narrative.

Mcgowan's IMDB page is rough. That man is stuck in a lot of trash even though he was one of the people who developed really nicely. I remember in the old threads he had a lot of fans from the beginning, but I never warmed to him during that 

  Reveal hidden contents

first season. Afterwards though, really marked improvement

And Toby Stephens is acting royalty. His mother is Dame Maggie Smith. It truly is a shame that he likes the theatre more, because he should be in a lot more films. Far and away the best actor of the bunch.

I never really hated Die Another Day (it's just a film that is kind of there), but apparently it was his experience on that film that turned him away from movie acting for such a long time  such a damn shame

Man, there's so, so much to unpack here.

The extent to which they built real ships is insane. And then they'd have these things on really small scale sets. Even on a controlled set, my brother told me it's insanely hard to film anything larger than a small boat (he was a PA for many years before moving to the editing and post-production side of things (he didn't work on this show though, and listening to him talk about how everyone is basically losing their jobs sucks)). 

But yeah, it sounded crazy. The fight scenes also sounded like they were really hard to get right. The actors needed a good bit of training, and then they'd have to get these huge shots from several angles all while not letting the cameras catch the set crew. Whatever you think about the other aspects of Black Sails, the cinematography was top class. 

Regarding picking a lane, the were in a tough spot given what they wanted to do. They essentially were taking a fictional kids book and blending it with real life pirates, and decided to make it gritty as fuck. I personally respect that. I hate when something that needs a R rating is directed like it's PG-13, and they went hard R with this one. Brutal murders. Nudity and sex, though mostly tasteful. And no regards to language concerns. It's exactly what I want more shows to do, to show the reality of life, but it does not always land right. They did their best, I think.

I agree that McGowan's page is rough. He gets work, but not great work. Perhaps this was just the rare perfect fit. He does look so different when he's not dressed as Vane.

Honestly though, most of the actors on the show have really surprising IMBDs, and not in a good way. I thought New would have a ton of work. She's a good actress and she's very pretty. But no, her's is kind of rough too. Oddly Kennedy is the one who is probably doing best outside of Stephens. 

And yes, Stephens is a great actor. He was not the problem with that film. His character was just shit, as was Berry's. And Pike's as well. That film had so much talent on set, but what they produced was complete shit. It's not shocking to learn that he preferred the stage over screen because of that experience. 

 

[Heartofice]

There is a visual representation of the competing directions of Black Sails in the casting of its two main characters. Flint was given depth and a serious tone in casting Toby Stephens ( even if he’s the guy from Die Another Day!)

But they also cast Silver as some long haired pretty boy with Luke Arnold. That was a real struggle for me trying to square him playing Long John Silver. He seemed to be everything wrong with the show at first.

Eventually though I think he grew into the role and did a decent job. Might have been better with someone else, in fact I think there were a lot of mis steps in the writing for that character and they never really got him right.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

I agree Arnold's Silver was a bit off putting at first, but he did exactly what he was designed to do over the course of the series. There were really only two characters you knew weren't going to die, and I think they did a great job of showing a handsome, fun loving guy transform into a real grizzled, hateful monster. 

But then again, if you read the book as a kid, you knew this was the story of Silver, Flint and Bones. The way they then weaved real pirates into it was most impressive.

[dbunting]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

More or less. Jessica Parker Kennedy was the actress I was swooning over on the show, and I actually think she did a very good job at what she was asked to do, but the character just didn't work a lot of the time. Her motivations made sense, but her dialogue was just flat out bad at times, and you can't fault the actor for that. 
 

What's funny, to me anyway, is there were a lot of times when she would speak and I was like wtf is this Dany 2.0, did she take cues from Emilia Clarke!!!??? Flat monotone voice and emotionless face! 

[cowolter]

Party of Five 2020 is darn good so far. It's a serious teen drama about some teens who lose their parents (to deportation). In the original 90's version, the parents die.

It's a serious teen drama with no gimmick other than being about siblings without parents. Pretty good. I like it better than the original.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

19 minutes ago, dbunting said:

What's funny, to me anyway, is there were a lot of times when she would speak and I was like wtf is this Dany 2.0, did she take cues from Emilia Clarke!!!??? Flat monotone voice and emotionless face! 

Actors can only work with what they are given. The hierarchy breakdown I typically here is:

Writers

Directors

Actors

A good actor can't do much if their writers and directors suck. I'm not sure if either are very good actors, but you can find where the above let them down.

[Ran]

On 5/23/2020 at 7:32 PM, Mexal said:

That's episode 8. We just finished it. Really funny episode.

Just finished episode 6. Jeez, this show is terrific...

Spoiler

Learning what Marial's father did to get the family demoted to servant status made our jaws drop in awe at the insanity of it. LOL

 

[Mexal]

4 hours ago, Ran said:

Just finished episode 6. Jeez, this show is terrific...

  Reveal hidden contents

Learning what Marial's father did to get the family demoted to servant status made our jaws drop in awe at the insanity of it. LOL

 

I was floored by that. The audacity of these writers astounds me. I respect the hell out of it.