UK Politics: National shortage of incompetence pads

[Which Tyler]

In news that will shock... absolutly nobody.

On Sunday, we were told that we can travel as far as we like (later changed to "within England") to take our daily exercise.

This weekend, there are too many people visiting tourist spots to maintain social distancing.

 

Who on earth could have predicted that exactly what happened on the last weekend before lockdown, the first weekend of lockdown, Easter weekend, and the weekend everyone predicted the easing of restrictions - might possibly happen again once specifically told it was allowed?

Secondly, can anyone think of a better way of spreading the virus to rural communities that had largely escaped it before?

[Fragile Bird]

Good title!

[BigFatCoward]

Piers Corbyn being a twat at hyde park. Just as useless at judging the public mood as his brother. 

[A Horse Named Stranger]

23 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Piers Corbyn being a twat at hyde park. Just as useless at judging the public mood as his brother. 

He is really named Piers Corbyn. That's like the worst of two world, Jackassery² if you will.

[DaveSumm]

So, 468 deaths today ... I know there’s a few caveats, like the fact that that includes more settings than it did a month ago. But that really doesn’t strike me as a ‘get the kids back to school’ number. It crept down a little from its peak, but it hasn’t seen the dramatic drop off we were hoping for. There seems to be a disconnect between the mood of this coming to an end and this number. I’m wondering if the number of people furloughed, or who just can’t work is connected to them needing to look after kids, and this is the governments best effort to get people back to work?

[Zoë Sumra]

5 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

So, 468 deaths today ... I know there’s a few caveats, like the fact that that includes more settings than it did a month ago. But that really doesn’t strike me as a ‘get the kids back to school’ number. It crept down a little from its peak, but it hasn’t seen the dramatic drop off we were hoping for. There seems to be a disconnect between the mood of this coming to an end and this number. I’m wondering if the number of people furloughed, or who just can’t work is connected to them needing to look after kids, and this is the governments best effort to get people back to work?

Yep. Most definitely, given that relaxation in other countries waited till deaths were much lower. Get thee out there and die for the corporate overlords!

There may also be a measure of desperation on the part of private schools and nurseries to get kids back on site before the summer holiday in order to justify continuing to charge parents.

[dog-days]

2 minutes ago, Zoë Sumra said:

Yep. Most definitely, given that relaxation in other countries waited till deaths were much lower. Get thee out there and die for the corporate overlords!

There may also be a measure of desperation on the part of private schools and nurseries to get kids back on site before the summer holiday in order to justify continuing to charge parents.

Yep. I caught part of the daily briefing today. This time it was Gavin Williamson at his greasiest, going on about rescuing children from unhappy homes by reopening the schools. Since his administration previously hasn't given a shit about children from unhappy homes, I hope my cynicism will be forgiven. 

[Werthead]

Given the lag in death reports, there does seem to be a feeling we're now realistically past 50,000 deaths, putting us at well over twice the government's informal, non-binding but nevertheless expressed "best case" scenario and heading for the worst-case scenario at quite some considerable speed. This is likely to accelerate given the recent upswing in the R rate.

I'm really not sure how the UK is going to get out of this predicament. To ease the lockdown we need people to be sticking vigorously to firmly-set out and enforced rules, and thanks to the government's incredibly vague, mixed messaging, this simply isn't happening at all. I can see cases spiking again fairly imminently and the lockdown having to be strictly re-enforced again for several weeks.

Looking at the reports from last week, the government thinks that the current infected amount of the population is realistically between 7 and 10%. If they are thinking seriously that herd immunity is the answer, then clearly that's not a goer either given we've taken two and a half months and almost 50,000 deaths to get to that figure, which is higher than anyone apart from that one study thought was possible. To achieve herd immunity on the same level (which we'd need to do to prevent the NHS being overrun) could cost another 250,000 dead and take another year, which is clearly not practical either.

[polishgenius]

It make me laugh that the Mail went digging for dirt and the best they could come up with is 'Keir Starmer owns a field'. 

This goes really well with the previous big skeleton in his closet 'Keir Starmer works with media cameramen to keep his children out of the public eye'.

[Jeor]

27 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

It make me laugh that the Mail went digging for dirt and the best they could come up with is 'Keir Starmer owns a field'. 

This goes really well with the previous big skeleton in his closet 'Keir Starmer works with media cameramen to keep his children out of the public eye'.

I would've thought his tenure as DPP would have provided a rich vein for tabloids. Literally every decision a DPP makes is bound to make someone unhappy - whether to prosecute or not etc. Unless the UK has laws against writing about various court matters.

[HexMachina]

Found out my nanna had taken herself for a walk around to her local shops last monday after hearing Johnson’s speech, thinking it meant she could go out.

I’m just...if anything happens as a consequence of that...I’m just so angry.

 

(with the govt, not my nan)

[Heartofice]

7 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Found out my nanna had taken herself for a walk around to her local shops last monday after hearing Johnson’s speech, thinking it meant she could go out.

I’m just...if anything happens as a consequence of that...I’m just so angry.

 

(with the govt, not my nan)

Although I accept some of the advice given was possibly vague, I don’t think anything Johnson said should have given her that impression. Both my elderly dad and aunt who are both at risk have continued to stay indoors and it never crossed their minds that things had changed dramatically.

But I think this is really all part of a general trend that was in some ways predicted. People are not really all that willing to stay in lockdown for a very long time and so timing it was vital to keep the populace concentrated. Now what we are seeing is that once you start to ease up even a little that  lots of people act like it’s over and that they can go back to how things were. 
 

Ok social distancing is mostly still happening but the edges are blurring and the longer this goes on the harder it is to maintain those rules

 

[HexMachina]

1 minute ago, Heartofice said:

Although I accept some of the advice given was possibly vague, I don’t think anything Johnson said should have given her that impression. Both my elderly dad and aunt who are both at risk have continued to stay indoors and it never crossed their minds that things had changed dramatically.

But I think this is really all part of a general trend that was in some ways predicted. People are not really all that willing to stay in lockdown for a very long time and so timing it was vital to keep the populace concentrated. Now what we are seeing is that once you start to ease up even a little that everyone acts like it’s over and that they can go back to how things were. 
 

Ok social distancing is mostly still happening but the edges are blurring.

 

Im glad your dad and aunt understood it. Clearly not everyone did. And i will absolutely blame the government for that because it is their responsibility to deliver a clear message on this. They are delivering a message to the entire nation, and the message should be tailored so that it is clear for everyone to understand. Not this mealy mouthed nonesense we got lost week that tells us nothing.

I would absolutely place her death on their hands if the worst happened

[Heartofice]

1 minute ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Im glad your dad and aunt understood it. Clearly not everyone did. And i will absolutely blame the government for that because it is their responsibility to deliver a clear message on this. They are delivering a message to the entire nation, and the message should be tailored so that it is clear for everyone to understand. Not this mealy mouthed nonesense we got lost week that tells us nothing.

I would absolutely place her death on their hands if the worst happened

What bit did she misunderstand? I think it was pretty clear that nothing changes for those at risk. My family received letters and phone calls on a regular basis establishing what applies to them. Information is freely available and Boris never said old people can leave the house and go back to normal. 
 

It’s fine to blame Boris for poor communication but I don’t think what you’re saying appears to be true.

[HexMachina]

5 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

What bit did she misunderstand? I think it was pretty clear that nothing changes for those at risk. My family received letters and phone calls on a regular basis establishing what applies to them. Information is freely available and Boris never said old people can leave the house and go back to normal. 
 

It’s fine to blame Boris for poor communication but I don’t think what you’re saying appears to be true.

Again, I’m glad your family received these. My nanna has never received a single communication identifying her as at risk, despite being over 80, having spent most of last year in and out of hospital, and having required carers for around 6-7 months (we stopped them shortly before lockdown). As we don’t go to visit (except my mam, once a week, to drop off groceries) and don’t live close by we can’t keep tabs on her at all times. So when she hears “Go out for unlimited exercise” And not a single mention of the “at risk” groups (which she only understands she is part of because we have explained it to her) then yes, I do understand her confusion, and 5e confusion of of so many others.

But I’m glad you are here once again to defend the mighty BoJo.

[Heartofice]

9 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Again, I’m glad your family received these. My nanna has never received a single communication identifying her as at risk, despite being over 80, having spent most of last year in and out of hospital, and having required carers for around 6-7 months (we stopped them shortly before lockdown). As we don’t go to visit (except my mam, once a week, to drop off groceries) and don’t live close by we can’t keep tabs on her at all times. So when she hears “Go out for unlimited exercise” And not a single mention of the “at risk” groups (which she only understands she is part of because we have explained it to her) then yes, I do understand her confusion, and 5e confusion of of so many others.

But I’m glad you are here once again to defend the mighty BoJo.

This isn’t about defending Boris, I’ve said I think the communication has been poor on easing the lockdown.

I do find it odd she hasn’t received any letters. Maybe it’s a local authority thing because all vulnerable members of my family have gotten letters and also have regular phone calls from the local council asking if they are ok and need deliveries etc. Now if she isn’t getting that then it needs to be questioned. It also needs to be questioned as to why she wouldn’t know she’s in a vulnerable group which should have been very clear and was clear to almost everyone. 
 

So if she isn’t getting letters or phone calls then something is going wrong there. 
 

I think it’s unfair to blame Boris for that though , on a wider level it’s been very obvious what behaviours vulnerable groups should be taking and nothing has changed there. Where I think there is an issue is with younger people who are less compliant and are raring to get back outside.

[polishgenius]

1 hour ago, Jeor said:

I would've thought his tenure as DPP would have provided a rich vein for tabloids. Literally every decision a DPP makes is bound to make someone unhappy - whether to prosecute or not etc. Unless the UK has laws against writing about various court matters.

 

Well some Tory MPs tried to attack him with a video in which he defended not having gone in on grooming gangs for various reasons. Turned out of course he wasn't defending that at all and was just listing reasons he was saying were bullshit.

His most controversial decision as DPP is probably not to prosecute any officers over the Jean Charles de Menezes shooting, but I'm not sure there's any capital in raking over those coals, especially since the reasoning was there wasn't enough evidence to convict any individual person.

[Fragile Bird]

3 hours ago, Heartofice said:

Although I accept some of the advice given was possibly vague, I don’t think anything Johnson said should have given her that impression. Both my elderly dad and aunt who are both at risk have continued to stay indoors and it never crossed their minds that things had changed dramatically.

But I think this is really all part of a general trend that was in some ways predicted. People are not really all that willing to stay in lockdown for a very long time and so timing it was vital to keep the populace concentrated. Now what we are seeing is that once you start to ease up even a little that  lots of people act like it’s over and that they can go back to how things were. 
 

Ok social distancing is mostly still happening but the edges are blurring and the longer this goes on the harder it is to maintain those rules

 

Honestly, how tone deaf can you possibly be? In a situation like this you say “I’m sorry to hear that happened, hope everything turns out ok”, not defend Boris and not just say your folks didn’t. Bloody hell.

@HelenaExMachina I hope nothing happens to your mom, sorry, nanna, and all is well. 

[Spockydog]

54 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Honestly, how tone deaf can you possibly be?

Someone hasn't been paying attention.

[williamjm]

4 hours ago, polishgenius said:

It make me laugh that the Mail went digging for dirt and the best they could come up with is 'Keir Starmer owns a field'.

I saw a quote elsewhere about Sir Keir's big dark secret being that he once bought his disabled mother a donkey sanctuary.

Anyway, I would have thought most Mail readers would respect him more once they found out he had made money with a property investment.

2 hours ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Again, I’m glad your family received these. My nanna has never received a single communication identifying her as at risk, despite being over 80, having spent most of last year in and out of hospital, and having required carers for around 6-7 months (we stopped them shortly before lockdown). As we don’t go to visit (except my mam, once a week, to drop off groceries) and don’t live close by we can’t keep tabs on her at all times. So when she hears “Go out for unlimited exercise” And not a single mention of the “at risk” groups (which she only understands she is part of because we have explained it to her) then yes, I do understand her confusion, and 5e confusion of of so many others.

It does seem particularly important to have clear and consistent messaging for that demographic. While many of them are going to be perfectly capable of understanding for themselves what the situation is it is the time of life where some start to get increasingly confused about even simple day-to-day matters.

I hope your grandmother manages to stay safe.