BigFatCoward Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 I'm really not side that 'normal' daily interaction is that much of a problem. Our sickness at work (we still have to get into peoples faces etc) is no worse than normal. Tubes, bars, sports crowds etc. I think are far more of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 2 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: I'm really not side that 'normal' daily interaction is that much of a problem. Our sickness at work (we still have to get into peoples faces etc) is no worse than normal. Tubes, bars, sports crowds etc. I think are far more of a problem. Do you commute by car or tube, out of interest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 On a separate note, the people you know who 'self isolated' at your workplaces, were they predominantly the lazy fuckers that you knew would definitely take advantage of 2 weeks off? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Just now, Zoë Sumra said: Do you commute by car, out of interest? I take a train, but it's really quiet (never been more than 5-6 in the carriage) then I cycle 10 miles instead of getting the tube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoë Sumra Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 4 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said: I take a train, but it's really quiet (never been more than 5-6 in the carriage) then I cycle 10 miles instead of getting the tube. Quiet is good. Reassuring... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorn Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 35 minutes ago, mormont said: Alternatively, and more accurately, you made an assumption that I had been duped by the pictures rather than taking it as bleeding obvious that day trips to the seaside by many thousands of people in the middle of a pandemic are inherently a completely unnecessary risk, and show that the government policy of relying on 'common sense' is fatally flawed by the fact that lots of people don't have any. Virus transmission in sunny, windy, outdoor places such as beaches is highly, highly unlikely. Restricting people from going to parks and beaches may be doing more harm than good, especially if they decide to spend that time, say, visiting friends or family, or doing unnecessary shopping instead. https://slate.com/business/2020/04/coronavirus-parks-beaches-open-them.html Quote “I would not worry about walking by someone,” said Dr. Amesh Adalja, an infectious disease specialist at Johns Hopkins University. “Even in a health care setting, contact is defined by being near someone for a certain amount of time. I would not worry about these fleeting encounters. The virus isn’t airborne—droplets need to get from one person to another.” ... But what little we know about the coronavirus suggests you have little to fear from brief encounters with other human beings outside. Dr. Edward Nardell, an airborne-infection specialist at the Harvard T.H. Chan School of Public Health, said outdoor transmission was “possible but improbable.” “It bugs me to see these restrictions on people being outside,” Nardell said. “Mental health means something as well, and I can’t imagine you’re in a better place than outside if you’re going to have any contact anywhere.” Nardell, who survived a recent battle with COVID-19, said that if he were in Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker’s shoes, he would go ahead with opening the state’s beaches—but with strong signage reminding people to keep their distance and under park ranger supervision. Nardell’s colleague Marc Lipsitch, an epidemiologist, wrote a more general case for public spaces in the Washington Post last week. “Closing parks and public gardens should be a temporary, last-resort measure for disease control,” he and his co-authors wrote. “The science could not be clearer: The benefits of getting outside vastly outweigh the risk of getting infected in a park.” Wear a mask, keep your distance, have a ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 55 minutes ago, mormont said: Alternatively, and more accurately, you made an assumption that I had been duped by the pictures rather than taking it as bleeding obvious that day trips to the seaside by many thousands of people in the middle of a pandemic are inherently a completely unnecessary risk, and show that the government policy of relying on 'common sense' is fatally flawed by the fact that lots of people don't have any. All I’m trying to do is help you calm down as you seemed rather upset looking at all those photos of people sat right next to each other, by pointing out that the perspective was giving you a bit of a false impression of the situation. No need to thank me. As above, it seems like most people were keeping a good distance from each other, and it being outside on a sunny day it’s highly unlikely there would be a big spread of the disease from it. Hopefully you can feel calmer now and be a bit more reassured about british common sense: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Moreover, even if it is risky to go to the beach right now, they represent such a tiny fraction of the populace that I don’t think it’d show up in the stats anyway. The vast, vast majority of us are sat at home doing nothing or working as they have been throughout. If there were a spike, it’d be impossible to separate out from the fact that a lot of construction and other industries are opening back up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, Gorn said: Virus transmission in sunny, windy, outdoor places such as beaches is highly, highly unlikely. Restricting people from going to parks and beaches may be doing more harm than good, especially if they decide to spend that time, say, visiting friends or family, or doing unnecessary shopping instead. https://slate.com/business/2020/04/coronavirus-parks-beaches-open-them.html Not sure what your point is here. That people might do other things that also display a lack of common sense (and in the case of visiting friends or family, are specifically forbidden to do) instead? OK. So we agree that a government policy of relying on 'good solid British common sense' is madness? 1 hour ago, Heartofice said: All I’m trying to do is help you calm down as you seemed rather upset looking at all those photos of people sat right next to each other, by pointing out that the perspective was giving you a bit of a false impression of the situation. No need to thank me. Indeed, in much the same way as there's no need to heat up the oven to make a ploughman's lunch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 1 hour ago, DaveSumm said: Moreover, even if it is risky to go to the beach right now, they represent such a tiny fraction of the populace that I don’t think it’d show up in the stats anyway. The vast, vast majority of us are sat at home doing nothing or working as they have been throughout. If there were a spike, it’d be impossible to separate out from the fact that a lot of construction and other industries are opening back up. True, but the way this spreads, it only takes a few people to get many more sick, and many of them will be asymptomatic, furthering the spread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 As an NHS professional basically as soon as I can get a flight to the UK, this is good, even though I've already paid my surcharge for 3 years. However, I think this feeds into the concept of a 'good immigrant' vs 'bad immigrant', the surcharge should go away for both NHS staff & also for all other immigrants if they are already paying into NI & income tax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 It's welcome news, but basically no surprise: Johnson essentially had to stand up in Parliament yesterday and in the same breath, acknowledge that foreign-born NHS staff had personally saved his life, but that they should pay the NHS surcharge anyway. Talk about terrible optics. But as Raja says, this charge is indefensible on its face anyway. Paying twice for the same care is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Yeah - there has been a lot of pressure over the last few months from the British Medical Association (BMA), the Doctor's Association UK ( DAUK), The Royal colleges, the press and most recently Starmer at PMQs to do away with this surcharge for NHS staff. It's not out of the goodness of their hearts, but a result of concerted pressure & bad press for Johnson. He's been shamed into doing it. Now it needs to go for every immigrant. Kinda wish I hadn't paid mine in March but oh well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 30 minutes ago, mormont said: It's welcome news, but basically no surprise: Johnson essentially had to stand up in Parliament yesterday and in the same breath, acknowledge that foreign-born NHS staff had personally saved his life, but that they should pay the NHS surcharge anyway. Talk about terrible optics. But as Raja says, this charge is indefensible on its face anyway. Paying twice for the same care is ridiculous. But, but they took yer jobs?!?!?!?!? ETA: Murray did take your Brits' job though. Disgraceful. Win: Citizen of the U.K. Lose: A Scot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Anyway, the new Scottish government roadmap out of lockdown is out: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52745643 It's not radically different than the UK one - for good reason - but the differences in detail and in presentation are key. There's no woolly British exceptionalism, just clear guidance, and where the government don't know something, they say they don't know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 If only the rest of Scotland’s response had been so good. https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18438525.coronavirus-scotland-actual-tests-one-third-capacity-new-figures-show/ https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scottish-care-home-workers-left-untested-residents-died-almost-daily-2852600 https://commonweal.scot/policy-library/predictable-crisis https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-52516136 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-52617895 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-52754039 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 18 minutes ago, Zorral said: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-52754039 I object to your linking of an article that features a picture of crowds at the beach, as if to suggest that people are crowding beaches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Luckily through the power of actually being able to zoom into images using your thumb and forefinger you can see how spread out everyone is But you know keep up with the moral outrage people. Good work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigFatCoward Posted May 21, 2020 Share Posted May 21, 2020 Keir needs to be gentler with Boris, if you play too aggresively with your toy you will break it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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