Heresy 231 Alienarea Strikes Again

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, sweetsunray said:

The middle one is sort of unclear. He's behind the tree. You may worship him via a tree, but you don't actually know him in person.

Could this be Arya?  The middle head of the god trios (Bran).  She is the one in disguise, the one you can't know, the one who hides in the trees.   

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A Storm of Swords - Arya VIII

"I dreamt a wolf howling in the rain, but no one heard his grief," the dwarf woman was saying. "I dreamt such a clangor I thought my head might burst, drums and horns and pipes and screams, but the saddest sound was the little bells. I dreamt of a maid at a feast with purple serpents in her hair, venom dripping from their fangs. And later I dreamt that maid again, slaying a savage giant in a castle built of snow." She turned her head sharply and smiled through the gloom, right at Arya. "You cannot hide from me, child. Come closer, now."

 

[alienarea]

8 hours ago, LynnS said:

Could this be Arya?  The middle head of the god trios (Bran).  She is the one in disguise, the one you can't know, the one who hides in the trees.   

 

Your last quote would fit with the show - Arya poisoning the male Freys and killing Littlefinger in Winterfell.

 

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, alienarea said:

Your last quote would fit with the show - Arya poisoning the male Freys and killing Littlefinger in Winterfell.

 

I'm thinking that first Bloodraven is Trios with Arya, Bran and Jon as the three heads.  An when BR finally gives up the ghost; Bran will be Trios and the three heads will be Tyrion, Arya and Jon.

The last quote about Arya as the maid with serpents in her hair at a feast; is Arya with her kill list (the medusa with serpents in her hair); and the feast is the killing that occurred to release Stark bannermen during the Hot Weasel Soup episode.  Arya keeps her involvement hidden. The GoHH tells Arya that she has seen what Arya has done and can't hide from her.

[LynnS]

We've discussed this one before questioning Varys 'stubble' and whether or not he is a eunuch.

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Game of Thrones S1E8 Commentary (Sometime before Mar 2012) https://youtu.be/vlkAw-bzc4Y?t=8m37s

I've went through all GoT commentary tracks featuring GRRM and only found this new tidbit:

In court he is the perfumed eunuch. frequently in robes with powdered face, very soft ,very effeminate, playing that role. But down in dungeons he has a whole separate identity, as Rugen, a jailer, who in the book swears of iron cap and he has a kind of a gruff stubbly beard, which of course is artificial make up.

Howland did not witness the promises made to Lyanna and a faceless man has not been hired to kill Dany's dragons... yet.  

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Fantasymundo Interview (Sometime in July 2012) 1

Tons of new reveals in this interview. Some highlights:

Q:How did Ned Stark with Syrio Forel?

A: Well, I've never thought about it in too much detail. Ned was looking for a fencing master who could teach Arya, and he knew that he could not be a conventional a knight, nor could he ask the castle's master of arms, because he didn't think his young daughter could fight with a wide sword in the style of men with great strength and thought that the style of Braavos would be more appropriate. Who in the city could do it? Obviously, someone had to recommend him to Ned. I think Syrio must be in the city at that time, because Ned wouldn't have time to cross the sea to Braavos and bring someone from there.

Q:Have the Faceless Men been hired to kill Dany's dragons?

A:Not yet.

Q:Did Howland Reed witness the promise Ned makes to Lyanna?

A:No

 

 

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BBC MACHIAVELLI INTERVIEW (Dec 2 2013) http://www.syfy.com/syfywire/which-thrones-character-changed-most-book-tv-grrm-explains

The original video was removed and I can't find any online backup. Here's a segment:

Book Littlefinger and television show Littlefinger are very different characters. They're probably the character that's most different from the book to the television show. There was a a line in a recent episode of the show where, he's not even present, but two people are talking about him and someone says 'Well, no one trusts Littlefinger' and 'Littlefinger has no friends.' And that's true of television show Littlefinger, but it's certainly not true of book Littlefinger. Book Littlefinger, in the book, everybody trusts him. Everybody trusts him because he seems powerless, and he's very friendly, and he's very helpful. He helps Ned Stark when he comes to town, he helps Tyrion, you know, he helps the Lannisters. He's always ready to help, to raise money. He helps Robert, Robert depends on him to finance all of his banquets and tournaments and his other follies, because Littelfinger can always raise money. So, he's everybody's friend. But of course there's the Machiavellian thing. He's, you know, everybody trusts him, everybody depends on him. He's not a threat. He's just this helpful, funny guy, who you can call upon to do whatever you want, and to raise money, and he ingratiaties himself with people and rises higher and higher as a result.

 

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The Great Gatsby (May 20 2013) https://grrm.livejournal.com/324330.html?thread=17746410

Yes, there's a lot of Gatsby in Littlefinger. Book Littlefinger, anyway. TV Littlefinger is a different sort of creature.

 

EW interview (June 26 2014) http://ew.com/article/2014/06/26/george-r-r-martin-winds-winter-tease/

We have more deaths, and we have more betrayals. We have more marriages.

a lot of stuff is happening at The Wall.

Well, Tyrion and Dany will intersect, in a way, but for much of the book they’re still apart. They both have quite large roles to play here. Tyrion has decided that he actually would like to live, for one thing, which he wasn’t entirely sure of during the last book, and he’s now working toward that end—if he can survive the battle that’s breaking out all around him. And Dany has embraced her heritage as a Targaryen and embraced the Targaryen words. So they’re both coming home.

 

[alienarea]

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

We've discussed this one before questioning Varys 'stubble' and whether or not he is a eunuch.

Howland did not witness the promises made to Lyanna and a faceless man has not been hired to kill Dany's dragons... yet.  

 

 

 

 

EW interview (June 26 2014) http://ew.com/article/2014/06/26/george-r-r-martin-winds-winter-tease/

We have more deaths, and we have more betrayals. We have more marriages.

a lot of stuff is happening at The Wall.

Well, Tyrion and Dany will intersect, in a way, but for much of the book they’re still apart. They both have quite large roles to play here. Tyrion has decided that he actually would like to live, for one thing, which he wasn’t entirely sure of during the last book, and he’s now working toward that end—if he can survive the battle that’s breaking out all around him. And Dany has embraced her heritage as a Targaryen and embraced the Targaryen words. So they’re both coming home.

 

When a character who previously wanted to die changes his / her mind and wants to live, he / she usually dies in a tragic way.

This wanting to die noble for a cause vs humbly wanting to live for one is a major theme in Salinger's Catcher in the Rye.

[LynnS]

1 hour ago, alienarea said:

When a character who previously wanted to die changes his / her mind and wants to live, he / she usually dies in a tragic way.

This wanting to die noble for a cause vs humbly wanting to live for one is a major theme in Salinger's Catcher in the Rye.

That's one of the more interesting quotes.  I don't think Tyrion will die but I won't say the same for Dany, Jon or Arya.  I also think that Tyrion will be one the heads of the dragons.  I think he will become an advisor to Dany and also a dragon rider.  And my head cannon says it will be the green dragon and the only dragon to survive.

Also interesting is that GRRM says Howland doesn't know what Ned promised Lyanna.  So he only came into the room after she died when he took her hand from Ned's.  We won't be getting any info from Howland on that score.  So more likely Bran or Benjen if he shows up again.  Ned's ghost has already told Bran something about Jon... that he can't quite remember.  

[Melifeather]

If no one can confirm what Lyanna said, then it'll have to be something that becomes apparent after its revealed. Then we can go, hmm, I bet THAT was one of Lyanna's promises.

[LynnS]

11 hours ago, Melifeather said:

If no one can confirm what Lyanna said, then it'll have to be something that becomes apparent after its revealed. Then we can go, hmm, I bet THAT was one of Lyanna's promises.

If Howland didn't know, then neither do Meera or Jojen.  But they may know something about where and when she died since Howland was the one who took Lyanna's hand from Ned.

I assume this is the reason some people think that Howland is Jon's father:

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A Game of Thrones - Eddard I

"I was with her when she died," Ned reminded the king. "She wanted to come home, to rest beside Brandon and Father." He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister's eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. After that he remembered nothing. They had found him still holding her body, silent with grief. The little crannogman, Howland Reed, had taken her hand from his. Ned could recall none of it. "I bring her flowers when I can," he said. "Lyanna was … fond of flowers."

 

They found Ned holding her body and he can recall none of it.  But he does recall Howland Reed taking her hand from his.  Traditional marriage custom.  Wouldn't that be a shocker.  LOL

[LynnS]

Melisandre is one of the most important characters in the book:
 

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CCCB Kosmopolis Interview July 2012

The meaning of ice and fire?

Well, ice is frozen water. And fire, fire is the result of combustion when a substance unites with oxygen and gives off heat and energy. But are they hate and love and these other things? Yeah of course. I'm working on a number of levels there and I've always loved a certain amount of ambiguity words or scenes or sequences, and books that can be read in many different ways, that have several meanings when you look at them, that mean one thing when you look at them this way, and another thing when you're looking them the other way. Ice and fire course are also opposites, they're a duality and there's a lot in my books that are about duality. Certainly the religion of Melisandre, one of the most important characters, I think is basically a dualist religion with the premise that there are two gods. It's somewhat based on Zoroastrianism, and a little bit based on Catharism, Albigenses heresy who I know had some roots here in Spain once upon a time, before they were all killed. The idea of a world divided between good and evil war between the two, which is so basic to so many fantasy starting with Tolkien, but much more so in the case of Tolkien imitators, was something that I wanted to recast and think about and maybe subvert a little. But I'm still using kind of the language of it, and some of the symbols associated with it. So all of these are grist for the mill, it's not something as simple as saying ice is this and fire is that. They're both many things. And one of the most important things is that both of them, ice and fire will kill you dead. So they're both dangerous in their own ways, hate, love, desire, coldness, they can both be deadly.

Fire and Light of Zoroastrianism:

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When using a flame, a source of light, as the focus while contemplating the spiritual aspects of one's life, the symbolisms carried by the fire & the light it produced, conveyed some of the essential principles of the faith. For instance, carrying a fire into a dark place dispels the darkness giving us the metaphor of the light of wisdom banishing the darkness of ignorance. From wisdom are derived the principles of justice and order. The temporal fire was also the symbol of the cosmic fire of creation, a fire that continues to pervade every element of creation. In this sense, fire takes on a much broader meaning than a flame, a meaning we discuss below. Light and fire were also essential elements for sustaining life.  

http://heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/worship/fire.htm

The oath of the Night Watch contains elements of Zoroastrianism.

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Night gathers, and now my watch begins. It shall not end until my death. I shall take no wife, hold no lands, father no children. I shall wear no crowns and win no glory. I shall live and die at my post. I am the sword in the darkness. I am the watcher on the walls. I am the fire that burns against the cold, the light that brings the dawn, the horn that wakes the sleepers, the shield that guards the realms of men. I pledge my life and honor to the Night's Watch, for this night and all the nights to come. 

Mel's religion contains elements of the Catharist Albigenses Heresy:

https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/01267e.htm

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The Albigenses asserted the co-existence of two mutually opposed principles, one good, the other evil. The former is the creator of the spiritual, the latter of the material world. The bad principle is the source of all evil; natural phenomena, either ordinary like the growth of plants, or extraordinary as earthquakes, likewise moral disorders (war), must be attributed to him. He created the human body and is the author of sin, which springs from matter and not from the spirit. The Old Testament must be either partly or entirely ascribed to him; whereas the New Testament is the revelation of the beneficent God. The latter is the creator of human souls, which the bad principle imprisoned in material bodies after he had deceived them into leaving the kingdom of light. This earth is a place of punishment, the only hell that exists for the human soul.

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A Storm of Swords - Davos III

"What is it you would have me see?"

"The way the world is made. The truth is all around you, plain to behold. The night is dark and full of terrors, the day bright and beautiful and full of hope. One is black, the other white. There is ice and there is fire. Hate and love. Bitter and sweet. Male and female. Pain and pleasure. Winter and summer. Evil and good." She took a step toward him. "Death and life. Everywhere, opposites. Everywhere, the war."

"The war?" asked Davos.

"The war," she affirmed. "There are two, Onion Knight. Not seven, not one, not a hundred or a thousand. Two! Do you think I crossed half the world to put yet another vain king on yet another empty throne? The war has been waged since time began, and before it is done, all men must choose where they will stand. On one side is R'hllor, the Lord of Light, the Heart of Fire, the God of Flame and Shadow. Against him stands the Great Other whose name may not be spoken, the Lord of Darkness, the Soul of Ice, the God of Night and Terror. Ours is not a choice between Baratheon and Lannister, between Greyjoy and Stark. It is death we choose, or life. Darkness, or light." She clasped the bars of his cell with her slender white hands. The great ruby at her throat seemed to pulse with its own radiance. "So tell me, Ser Davos Seaworth, and tell me truly—does your heart burn with the shining light of R'hllor? Or is it black and cold and full of worms?" She reached through the bars and laid three fingers upon his breast, as if to feel the truth of him through flesh and wool and leather

.Dany experiences the Zoroastrian cleansing, the spiritual fire and the Cathar transformation of the soul freed from the body:
 

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A Game of Thrones - Daenerys III

Day followed day, and night followed night, until Dany knew she could not endure a moment longer. She would kill herself rather than go on, she decided one night …

Yet when she slept that night, she dreamt the dragon dream again. Viserys was not in it this time. There was only her and the dragon. Its scales were black as night, wet and slick with blood. Her blood, Dany sensed. Its eyes were pools of molten magma, and when it opened its mouth, the flame came roaring out in a hot jet. She could hear it singing to her. She opened her arms to the fire, embraced it, let it swallow her whole, let it cleanse her and temper her and scour her clean. She could feel her flesh sear and blacken and slough away, could feel her blood boil and turn to steam, and yet there was no pain. She felt strong and new and fierce.

This is what Melisandre is talking about when she says fire is the cleanest form of death.   

 

[alienarea]

2 hours ago, LynnS said:

If Howland didn't know, then neither do Meera or Jojen.  But they may know something about where and when she died since Howland was the one who took Lyanna's hand from Ned.

I assume this is the reason some people think that Howland is Jon's father:

They found Ned holding her body and he can recall none of it.  But he does recall Howland Reed taking her hand from his.  Traditional marriage custom.  Wouldn't that be a shocker.  LOL

It is not 100 % proof, but if Howland did not hear what Ned promised Lyanna, Howland was not there when Lyanna died.

If Howland was not there when Lyanna died, this strongly suggests that Ned was alone with Lyanna (why would for example a hypothetical servant of Lyanna be allowed to be there, but not Howland?).

Based on this, we can only know Ned's promise in a vision of Bran.

Additionally: if Ned was alone with Lyanna when she died, and they, including Howland, found him holding her hand, it is highly unlikely that Lyanna died at the ToJ.

Of course, my dear friends in the other thread will construct a case of unnamed servants at the ToJ, who did not ride away with Howland and Ned after the fight (which would only work in my understanding if the ToJ weren't a tower long fallen but some kind of luxury retreat operated by silent sisters and would then lead to Ned carrying Dawn, Howland, a starving baby Jon and a decomposing Lyanna ryding into Starfall, an event so common nobody remembers  ).

 

[Melifeather]

On 6/7/2020 at 8:18 AM, LynnS said:

Lord Beric may be a symbolic King Robert and Storm King: the original storm king was Durran Godsgrief. House Baratheon took the title when Orys Baratheon killed Argilac the Arrogant. Holding a title is significant, but GRRM may also give us clues that a House has other heirs who may have fallen from power but who carry some of the original magic or "blood" of an historical or legendary figure. I suspect that the resemblance between Dondarrion and Durrandon, as well as Lord Beric's lightning bolt sigil, are clues that he is also an heir (and symbolic representative) of the Storm King.

I too suspect that the Durrandon story, specifically Durran Godsgrief, is important to the current story. I believe it's a story about how the First Men were able to work magic - fancifully referred to as marrying a magical "daughter" (Elenei) of a mixture of air and water (sea god and goddess of the wind). She was magic turned mortal by agreeing to marry Durran - which I believe is just another way of saying Durran successfully "married" air and water to create magic. All the wedding guests were killed, but maybe they were all sacrificed in order to make the magic? Then the motif of a lord stealing another lord's daughter is a repeat of Durran.

On 6/7/2020 at 8:18 AM, LynnS said:

A Clash of Kings - Jon III

On his way back, Jon swung wide of the column's line of march and took a shorter path through the thick of the wood. The sounds of man and horse diminished, swallowed up by the wet green wild, and soon enough he could hear only the steady wash of rain against leaf and tree and rock. It was midafternoon, yet the forest seemed as dark as dusk. Jon wove a path between rocks and puddles, past great oaks, grey-green sentinels, and black-barked ironwoods. In places the branches wove a canopy overhead and he was given a moment's respite from the drumming of the rain against his head. As he rode past a lightning-blasted chestnut tree overgrown with wild white roses, he heard something rustling in the underbrush. "Ghost," he called out. "Ghost, to me."

The lightning motif is important too, as it is connected to both Bloodraven and Beric Dondarrion the Lightning Lord. It's intended as a clue to turn our attention towards the source or at least the users of magic, or maybe even people whose families were struck by magic.

On 6/7/2020 at 8:18 AM, LynnS said:

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So Castle Black had a wall of sorts at last, a crescent-shaped barricade ten feet high made of stores; casks of nails and barrels of salt mutton, crates, bales of black broadcloth, stacked logs, sawn timbers, fire-hardened stakes, and sacks and sacks of grain. The crude rampart enclosed the two things most worth defending; the gate to the north, and the foot of the great wooden switchback stair that clawed and climbed its way up the face of the Wall like a drunken thunderbolt, supported by wooden beams as big as tree trunks driven deep into the ice.

If Jon is the offspring of Robert and Lyanna, 'clawing and climbing his way up the wall'; he can also claim the bloodline from the storm kings and going back to Garth Greenhand.  He would be Jon Snow-Storm.  A drunken lightning bolt would characterize Robert.

I do like this imagery - the stitching of the switchback stairway and the drunken reference - but while Robert could very well be a father-contender, the word "drunken" has many other connotations such as bad decision making, being uninhibited, or actions not normally taken.

 

 

[Melifeather]

1 hour ago, alienarea said:

Additionally: if Ned was alone with Lyanna when she died, and they, including Howland, found him holding her hand, it is highly unlikely that Lyanna died at the ToJ.

Of course, my dear friends in the other thread will construct a case of unnamed servants at the ToJ, who did not ride away with Howland and Ned after the fight (which would only work in my understanding if the ToJ weren't a tower long fallen but some kind of luxury retreat operated by silent sisters and would then lead to Ned carrying Dawn, Howland, a starving baby Jon and a decomposing Lyanna ryding into Starfall, an event so common nobody remembers  ).

Precisely, but we don't have to go picking off that scab...

[LynnS]

38 minutes ago, Melifeather said:

I do like this imagery - the stitching of the switchback stairway and the drunken reference - but while Robert could very well be a father-contender, the word "drunken" has many other connotations such as bad decision making, being uninhibited, or actions not normally taken.

Exactly!  I've suspect Robert of taking 'liberties' while drunk.  Potentially a reason to run away and hide.  His obsession with rape might be projection and a morning after foggy memory clouding real events.  He seems to question Ned like a cop when he asks about Jon; wondering if the story will change.  There seems to be a tacit agreement between them to stick the story rather than say anything out loud. Close friends who grow up together, closer than brothers; who know each other so well they understand each other's thoughts without speaking.  Robert's death bed discussion in particular and Ned's thoughts seem to have a subtext.  "I shouldn't have done it... she was just a girl... take care of my son.... etc.  I promise... I promise...( I will take care of all your children).  Robert didn't give a crap about Joffrey.  He belonged to Cersei.

[Melifeather]

10 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Exactly!  I've suspect Robert of taking 'liberties' while drunk.  Potentially a reason to run away and hide.  His obsession with rape might be projection and a morning after foggy memory clouding real events.  He seems to question Ned like a cop when he asks about Jon; wondering if the story will change.  There seems to be a tacit agreement between them to stick the story rather than say anything out loud. Close friends who grow up together, closer than brothers; who know each other so well they understand each other's thoughts without speaking.  Robert's death bed discussion in particular and Ned's thoughts seem to have a subtext.  "I shouldn't have done it... she was just a girl... take care of my son.... etc.  I promise... I promise...( I will take care of all your children).  Robert didn't give a crap about Joffrey.  He belonged to Cersei.

If Robert is anything like Trump, you can pretty much be sure that he's guilty of doing exactly what he's blaming others of doing.

...and the stitching part - "stitching" a story together, perhaps? A crooked story?

[Frey family reunion]

12 minutes ago, LynnS said:

He seems to question Ned like a cop when he asks about Jon; wondering if the story will change.

That's not the takeaway I took from that conversation at all.  I think Robert was taking a bit of delight in reminding Ned that Ned wasn't as virtuous as his reputation or demeanor would necessarily suggest.  

Robert started the conversation by wishing that he and Ned could abandon their responsibilities, and go off on the road and enjoy carnal knowledge of women they would meet (and leave) along the way.

Ne, responds in his typical Ned response.  Reminding Robert of their duties to their lands, their family and specifically their wives.

It's such a typically Ned response that I think Robert couldn't help but needle Ned about the time that he forsook his honor and conceived his bastard.

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, alienarea said:

It is not 100 % proof, but if Howland did not hear what Ned promised Lyanna, Howland was not there when Lyanna died.

He could have been there, just not in the room.  It's after Lyanna died that 'they' came into the room.  So more than just Howland were present in some location.

Is still think she was hiding on the Quiet Isle, possibly disguised as a Septa.  The brothers are forbidden to speak, so this is a good place to go.   Elderly Brother tells us that he has healing skill but that wasn't always so before he washed up on the Isle.  He talks about the Quiet Isle being a place where people and things end up and he also tells Brienne that they have rooms for women.  Sometime noble ladies stay there or have stayed there in the past.  Ladies heavy with child.  I mean, c'mon.  LOL 

 

[LynnS]

3 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

That's not the takeaway I took from that conversation at all.  I think Robert was taking a bit of delight in reminding Ned that Ned wasn't as virtuous as his reputation or demeanor would necessarily suggest.  

Robert started the conversation by wishing that he and Ned could abandon their responsibilities, and go off on the road and enjoy carnal knowledge of women they would meet (and leave) along the way.

Ne, responds in his typical Ned response.  Reminding Robert of their duties to their lands, their family and specifically their wives.

It's such a typically Ned response that I think Robert couldn't help but needle Ned about the time that he forsook his honor and conceived his bastard.

Sure, but I think its a bit of a game, getting Ned off his guard.  Then he asks about his bastards mother... what was her name again? That's exactly what a cop would do.  When Ned gets prickly, Robert laughs it off and lets it go.

[LynnS]

2 hours ago, alienarea said:

Additionally: if Ned was alone with Lyanna when she died, and they, including Howland, found him holding her hand, it is highly unlikely that Lyanna died at the ToJ.

Correct me if I'm wrong.  Ned had a yelling match with Robert before going to the TOJ. What do you think that was about? When Ned returns from Starfall, then they talk about Lyanna and grieve together, but there is no mention of Jon or Ned didn't bring Jon with him back to KL.  So what happened to Jon?  Was he sent ahead with his wetnurse by ship to the Quiet Isle where Ned met them.  Also retrieving Lyanna's bones before sending them onto Winterfell; while he returned Lady Dustin's horse.  Doesn't Catelyn say they were already at Winterfell when she arrived and Ned arrived later?  I don't remember.

[Frey family reunion]

8 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Sure, but I think its a bit of a game, getting Ned off his guard.  Then he asks about his bastards mother... what was her name again? That's exactly what a cop would do.  When Ned gets prickly, Robert laughs it off and lets it go.

Perhaps it's a gender perspective.  I see it less like a police interrogation and more like one friend jerking around with another, by bringing up a topic that they know makes the person uncomfortable.  Basically Robert was screwing with Ned.

ETA: basically police conduct an interrogation to try and find out the truth about the situation, or for the more cynical minded,  to get someone to incriminate themselves.

I don't really think Robert gives a damn who Jon's mother was, other than he likes reminding Ned that he isn't infallible, basically he to knock him off his high horse a bit.

[LynnS]

28 minutes ago, Frey family reunion said:

I don't really think Robert gives a damn who Jon's mother was, other than he likes reminding Ned that he isn't infallible, basically he to knock him off his high horse a bit.

If Robert suspects even a little bit that he's the father; he's going to give a damn about Jon since he is still in love with Lyanna.  If Jon even looks a little bit like Lyanna he is going to question Ned about it in a round about way.  He may just accept after all these years that Ned is taking care of his bastard and this is what Lyanna wanted.

All I'm doing is shifting the frame:

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I'm working on a number of levels there and I've always loved a certain amount of ambiguity words or scenes or sequences, and books that can be read in many different ways, that have several meanings when you look at them, that mean one thing when you look at them this way, and another thing when you're looking them the other way. - GRRM

All I'm saying is it's one possibility.

ETA:  I was questioned by police before in a homicide investigation.  I was driving home one night and I saw something on the side of the road ahead of me on the highway and I wasn't sure what it was.  I thought it might be a deer and I was seeing the reflection of it's eyes in my headlights.  So I slowed right down and it turned out to be a teenaged boy on a bike with no lighting, just some reflectors on the pedals.  I was about to pull over and tell him that I couldn't see him and that he should be very careful on this stretch of road, but he gave me such a look that I decided to drive on.  My house was about a quarter mile away.  Next morning when I got up from work, Police were everywhere.  He had been struck and killed by a an undercover cop who was drunk and left the scene. This is a long time ago.

When I reported that I had passed him on the road. I was asked to come down to the court house to answer some questions.  I was made comfortable with chit chat and then I told them what happened and what time.  Then one cop started a question with 'When you drove past him.." I stopped him immediately and told him, No I didn't just drive past him,  I slowed right down enough to see him.  I passed him slowly. It surprised them that I caught that and they didn't question me much further.

I'm just saying that there is something about Ned's conversation with Robert that reminds me of that experience.