U.S. Politics: Self Medicating

[Martell Spy]

Please continue.

Yeah, it looks like Dr. Birx has become the go to Republican defense. They have the best and most beautiful data, Birx says so. We are weeks away from Pence wheeling her out to tell us how abortion doctors are Satan.

Quote

 

DeSantis on Wednesday defended the site and noted that it had drawn praise from Deborah Birx, a member of the White House Coronavirus Task Force. Birx has praised Florida’s data transparency during White House briefings.

“Our data is available, our data is transparent, in fact Dr. Birx has talked multiple times about how Florida has the absolute best data,” said DeSantis.

 

As Pence stands by, DeSantis unleashes on former health official

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/05/20/as-pence-stands-by-desantis-unleashes-on-former-health-official-1284725

[GrimTuesday]

  

8 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I really don't mean this to be a dick, more playfully than anything, but look harder.

My best guess from afar is that she calculated that the people who already hate her will hate her for whatever she does, but most people don't even know who she is. Trump is like Jordan though, everyone knows his name. If she can bait him and get him to look like an asshole, that's all anyone will talk about. He's a vacuum, and sucks all the oxygen out of every conversation. No one will even remember that the Speaker called the President a fat ass.

Trump always looks like an asshole, him coming out and insulting Pelosi is nothing out of the norm. Her insulting him in such an outward way is not what we expect, so the only part of this interaction that will appear in anyway exceptional is hers.

Also what kind of master plan do you think Pelosi has? Was part of her plan to authorize massive increases to military spending? What about extending the patriot act? What about appointing someone to the bailout oversight committee who didn't particularly want the job, didn't sit on any relevant committees, and is riddled with conflicts of interests rather than appointing Katie Porter who sits on two relevant committees and is a fast rising star in the party. But then again she called Trump fat and ripped up his State of the Union address, what a girlboss.

[DMC]

Quote

No. Neither I nor Nancy Pelosi are responsible for the internalization of criticism to such a degree that lame application of clinical speech for comdic purposes against a specific and highlighted target is interpreted as an attack on People of Size the world over. 

It’s generally bad politics to unnecessarily offend people.  I also find the complaint that using language that can often stigmatize people should be avoided to be valid.  If you don’t, that’s your problem.

Quote

Again, anyone offended by her comments was already going to be offended.

This makes no sense.  Anyone offended by her comments would already be offended if she didn’t make the comments?  I don’t think this is going to cause anyone to stay home.  If it has any infinitesimal effect, it’d just be further disengaging those that are fed up with both sides already.  Again, unnecessarily – which by all accounts you agree this was – using language that reasonably offends some people is not something I want my political leaders to engage in.  Call me an idealist.

[Week]

Pelosi's biggest sin: fat shaming or normalizing fat cats with ice cream caves?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

13 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Please continue.

Yeah, it looks like Dr. Birx has become the go to Republican defense. They have the best and most beautiful data, Birx says so. We are weeks away from Pence wheeling her out to tell us how abortion doctors are Satan.

As Pence stands by, DeSantis unleashes on former health official

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/05/20/as-pence-stands-by-desantis-unleashes-on-former-health-official-1284725

@Fragile Bird called this one.
 

7 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

  

Trump always looks like an asshole, him coming out and insulting Pelosi is nothing out of the norm. Her insulting him in such an outward way is not what we expect, so the only part of this interaction that will appear in anyway exceptional is hers.

Also what kind of master plan do you think Pelosi has? Was part of her plan to authorize massive increases to military spending? What about extending the patriot act? What about appointing someone to the bailout oversight committee who didn't particularly want the job, didn't sit on any relevant committees, and is riddled with conflicts of interests rather than appointing Katie Porter who sits on two relevant committees and is a fast rising star in the party. But then again she called Trump fat and ripped up his State of the Union address, what a girlboss.

Again, I'm guessing a majority of Americans don't really even know who she is. The name might register, but it's not the same. They all, 100% or close to it, know Trump's. You can say she was wrong, and like I said in almost every case fat shaming is wrong, but it's understandable to get what she was doing. If both say something stupid talking shit to one another, Trump's comments will get the lion's share of the coverage. That's probably why she said what she did. 

17 minutes ago, DMC said:

This makes no sense.  Anyone offended by her comments would already be offended if she didn’t make the comments?  I don’t think this is going to cause anyone to stay home.  If it has any infinitesimal effect, it’d just be further disengaging those that are fed up with both sides already.  Again, unnecessarily – which by all accounts you agree this was – using language that reasonably offends some people is not something I want my political leaders to engage in.  Call me an idealist.

Because partisanship. I doubt any overweight liberal or left leaning likely voter cares that she objectively said being morbidly obese puts you at greater risk. And as @Jace, Basilissa said, she was factually correct.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, Week said:

Pelosi's biggest sin: fat shaming or normalizing fat cats with ice cream caves?

Careful, or a Bond Villain will threaten to throw you in a giant tub of ice cream.

[Guest]

38 minutes ago, Martell Spy said:

Please continue.

Yeah, it looks like Dr. Birx has become the go to Republican defense. They have the best and most beautiful data, Birx says so. We are weeks away from Pence wheeling her out to tell us how abortion doctors are Satan.

As Pence stands by, DeSantis unleashes on former health official

https://www.politico.com/states/florida/story/2020/05/20/as-pence-stands-by-desantis-unleashes-on-former-health-official-1284725

I was looking at the picture of Pence and DeSantis together, and it struck me: do Republicans have like a "Generic Douche" prototype somewhere that they're using to crank out these Stepford Husbands?

[DMC]

14 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Because partisanship.

This still makes no sense.  I already agreed this is pointless politically - that was my original point.  You're either unable or unwilling to respond to the fact this reasonably offends people, and that's not something political leaders should do when there's no purpose.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 minutes ago, DMC said:

This still makes no sense.  I already agreed this is pointless politically - that was my original point.  You're either unable or unwilling to respond to the fact this reasonably offends people, and that's not something political leaders should do when there's no purpose.

I can admit this could be a blind spot. The only times I've been overweight in any considerable way is due to injury when I couldn't train. But there's never been a day in my life anyone would call me fat other than myself, and that's because I wanted my abs to look better. I never could fully get my eight pack.

Yes, it offends people, and many will take it personally. But it won't have much of an impact on people who already decided to vote for Democrats in November. Logic suggests that this was not a gaffe, and was planned and intentional, and if so she was baiting him. Most people will only hear what she said in passing, and if you listen, it really wasn't bad at all. Her ice cream comments were worse, and they were still meaningless. But everyone sees and hears what Shit for Brains has to say, and that was her goal. Could it backfire? Sure. I just don't think there's much to it even if it does.

Like her tactic or not, the overall strategy is correct. Humiliate the mother fucker. That's what does him in more than just about anything, and attacking his IQ and his weight are what drive him most batty. He self-destructs pretty easily with just a simple nudge. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

30 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I was looking at the picture of Pence and DeSantis together, and it struck me: do Republicans have like a "Generic Douche" prototype somewhere that they're using to crank out these Stepford Husbands?

Only God can stop them from cloning Congressman Gaetz.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Only God can stop them from cloning Congressman Gaetz.

I'll see your Gaetz and raise you a Nunes.

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Like her tactic or not, the overall strategy is correct. Humiliate the mother fucker. That's what does him in more than just about anything, and attacking his IQ and his weight are what drive him most batty. He self-destructs pretty easily with just a simple nudge. 

I hope Nancy Pelosi is not as naive as you to think this is some gambit in a successful political strategy.  Humiliate him?  The context of her comments was Trump lying about taking hydroxychloroquine.  If that's not sufficient humiliation enough, then nothing is.  Thinking he's going to "self-destruct" anymore than he already has, or that his reaction will precipitate self-inflicting damage, is simply ignoring the evidence we have from the past four years that Trump reacting with outrageous rhetoric only fortifies his base.  This idea that stooping to Trump's level of childish insults is some sage political maneuver is, well, childish.  Big picture, you know who lowering the bar consistently helps?  The Republicans.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I'll see your Gaetz and raise you a Nunes.

Not exactly. Nunes doesn't look like a terrible person. He is one, no doubt, but to me he just looks like someone you'd see in public and then completely forget. If a friend showed up with him as a date to a party, you'd probably just think to yourself he/she could probably do better.

Gaetz, OTOH, looks like he's going to cheat on you at every chance he gets. And when he finally confessed, he'd blame you for what he did. Because it's your fault he can't get you off. 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Triskele said:

I think it's instructive here to think about if we do end up living under a right-wing Big Brother authoritarian nightmare for the rest of our lives (ain't it amazing how possible this actually seems?) and the Dear Leader's face was everywhere watching us which would be most horrifying.  I think it's Gaetz here and not even close.  And I really do not like Nunes.  

Really? Gaetz at least seems to have some kind of personality. Nunes makes vanilla seem boring to me. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 minutes ago, DMC said:

I hope Nancy Pelosi is not as naive as you to think this is some gambit in a successful political strategy.  Humiliate him?  The context of her comments was Trump lying about taking hydroxychloroquine.  If that's not sufficient humiliation enough, then nothing is.  Thinking he's going to "self-destruct" anymore than he already has, or that his reaction will precipitate self-inflicting damage, is simply ignoring the evidence we have from the past four years that Trump reacting with outrageous rhetoric only fortifies his base.  This idea that stooping to Trump's level of childish insults is some sage political maneuver is, well, childish.  Big picture, you know who lowering the bar consistently helps?  The Republicans.

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I'm not interested in a circular conversation. I think she tried, and succeeded in dropping a subtle line in a series of talking points to bait him. You disagree. That's fine. Neither of us know what she was thinking, but I think we can also both agree that overall Pelosi has largely been a surgeon politically over the last few years. I didn't want her to be Speaker, but damn if she hasn't been excellent overall, even if she denies a lot of people short term gratification. 

11 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Really? Gaetz at least seems to have some kind of personality. Nunes makes vanilla seem boring to me. 

As a guy, Gaetz is probably fun to go drinking with. Nunes wouldn't be much fun at all. No one should waste any of their times with either of these fuckers anyways though.

[DMC]

Just now, Tywin et al. said:

I think we can also both agree that overall Pelosi has largely been a surgeon politically over the last few years. I didn't want her to be Speaker, but damn if she hasn't been excellent overall, even if she denies a lot of people short term gratification. 

Sure I agree she's been an expert legislative negotiator since retaking the gavel.  How bout focusing on that?  Especially when, ya know, getting more stimulus is pretty fucking crucial to this country.

[GrimTuesday]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

We'll just have to agree to disagree then. I'm not interested in a circular conversation. I think she tried, and succeeded in dropping a subtle line in a series of talking points to bait him. You disagree. That's fine. Neither of us know what she was thinking, but I think we can also both agree that overall Pelosi has largely been a surgeon politically over the last few years. I didn't want her to be Speaker, but damn if she hasn't been excellent overall, even if she denies a lot of people short term gratification.

Ok, I need to know what you are calling genius here. I get that she is having to maneuver around a Republican Senate that is where hopes and dreams go to die. but I don't feel like she has accomplished much of anything. Like I said before, there are a whole lot of things that she has let through the house that does not align with what I consider to be Democratic principles (Not even leftist principles). I must be missing something because while I can understand some praise for her first go around during the Obama administration, the praise for her now baffles me.

This is not me being a disingenuous Pelosi hater, I genuinely don't understand this.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

19 minutes ago, DMC said:

Sure I agree she's been an expert legislative negotiator since retaking the gavel.  How bout focusing on that?  Especially when, ya know, getting more stimulus is pretty fucking crucial to this country.

Has she not also done that? 

15 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

Ok, I need to know what you are calling genius here. I get that she is having to maneuver around a Republican Senate that is where hopes and dreams go to die. but I don't feel like she has accomplished much of anything. Like I said before, there are a whole lot of things that she has let through the house that does not align with what I consider to be Democratic principles (Not even leftist principles). I must be missing something because while I can understand some praise for her first go around during the Obama administration, the praise for her now baffles me.

This is not me being a disingenuous Pelosi hater, I genuinely don't understand this.

She's in a 1 vs. 3 fight and holding serve, often winning the point. Pretty impressive if you ask me. 

Look, there's a lot to pick through and question, she's far from perfect, but all things considered she's doing about as good as you can ask for. 

[DMC]

9 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Has she not also done that? 

Influencing media cycles by emphasizing the GOP is dragging their feet on negotiations would be a far better political tactic than allowing Trump to distract from that by calling him names.

[GrimTuesday]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Has she not also done that? 

She's in a 1 vs. 3 fight and holding serve, often winning the point. Pretty impressive if you ask me. 

Look, there's a lot to pick through and question, she's far from perfect, but all things considered she's doing about as good as you can ask for. 

I think that if we are going to make progress, real progress, we need to demand better. I feel like there have been quite a few instances where she has had the opportunity to actually try and make a play but hasn't. To use a baseball metaphor, she has been watching pitches go by that she should be swinging at. Sure, they might not be a home run, but you are keeping the at-bat alive, and you keep raising the pitch count, and are more likely to get a pitch to hit. She is too wrapped up in her pay-go shit and keeping donors happy that she doesn't take real steps to lay the foundation for when we actually take power.

I know she said she is stepping aside after 2022 (if I remember correctly), and I believe her, but I don't see her helping to build up the next generation of congressional leadership. I'm not even saying that she needs to be bending over backwards to push the progressives or anything like that, though it will come as no surprise to hear I think that is the ascendant wing of the party, rather trying to make sure that power remains in the people within her orbit, people who, for the most part, are not part of the future.