Star Trek: The Wrath of Fans

[Werthead]

Andromeda was created as a Star Trek show (by Gene Roddenberry in person, no less), Paramount just didn't bite at the time and someone took the idea off to create a stand-alone thing. So, yeah, but it's more a case of bringing the premise back to the original franchise that spawned it.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

On 9/4/2020 at 9:06 AM, Caligula_K3 said:

There's the really good episode of DS9 where Sisko flashes to 1950s New York and life as a sci-fi writer. It's a really well done episode about systematic racism, but it's also just so fun to see all the alien actors without their makeup, including Dorn.

Speaking of great episodes, I watched In the Pale Moonlight last night. Wow, that was phenomenal.

That was a really powerful episode. 

[sifth]

41 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Andromeda was created as a Star Trek show (by Gene Roddenberry in person, no less), Paramount just didn't bite at the time and someone took the idea off to create a stand-alone thing. So, yeah, but it's more a case of bringing the premise back to the original franchise that spawned it.

So basically it's not plagiarism, if they're ripping off themselves? That's honestly what this sounds like.

[Caligula_K3]

1 hour ago, Arch-MaesterPhilip said:

That was a really powerful episode. 

Unfortunately, the end of season 6 has not been quite as powerful. We've got a 1960s Vegas crooner holosuite character giving Odo advice on picking up women, a Dragonball Z battle between possessed Kira and possessed Jake, the Quark sex change episode (which was so bad and awful that we turned it off after ten minutes and read a recap instead), and Molly O'Brien falling into a time vortex and becoming a cavewoman. There have been a couple pretty good episodes in there, but even in a great season like this... wow, old Trek can get bad.

I'm not completely sold on that Discovery trailer, but I do like that it's going into the future and exploring new plotlines for the Federation (and I can't say I really care if a TV show from 20 years ago had a similar premise). Even though I really liked parts of season 1 of Discovery, season 2 held very little interest for me since it continued to just go back to the well of the original Trek, which I have no nostalgia for at all (ditto for the Picard show and TNG, though at least that went beyond the timeline too).  If it gets good reviews I'd be willing to watch season 3.

[karaddin]

Amazingly one of the great episodes of DS9 heavily features the 60s Vegas holosuite, but in that case it's being used as a framing device rather than being a "holosuite" story. That's midway through season 7. 

I think on the whole I enjoyed S7 more, looking through the episode list there's a lot there I enjoyed.

[sifth]

I guess I'm one of the few people who actually enjoyed Vic on DS9. The episode that features him befriending Odo is probably one of my favorites, just because it's one of the few times in the series we get to see Odo actually be happy. I also love the one where he helps Nog recover from his trauma; this episode in particular has brought more than a few tears to my eyes.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

3 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Unfortunately, the end of season 6 has not been quite as powerful. We've got a 1960s Vegas crooner holosuite character giving Odo advice on picking up women, a Dragonball Z battle between possessed Kira and possessed Jake, the Quark sex change episode (which was so bad and awful that we turned it off after ten minutes and read a recap instead), and Molly O'Brien falling into a time vortex and becoming a cavewoman. There have been a couple pretty good episodes in there, but even in a great season like this... wow, old Trek can get bad.

I'm not completely sold on that Discovery trailer, but I do like that it's going into the future and exploring new plotlines for the Federation (and I can't say I really care if a TV show from 20 years ago had a similar premise). Even though I really liked parts of season 1 of Discovery, season 2 held very little interest for me since it continued to just go back to the well of the original Trek, which I have no nostalgia for at all (ditto for the Picard show and TNG, though at least that went beyond the timeline too).  If it gets good reviews I'd be willing to watch season 3.

I generally liked the episodes featuring Vic but not that one. 

I'm excited for Discovery. I feel like it could grow into its own thing now. 

[Caligula_K3]

I don't know whether I should be scared that Vic comes back in multiple episodes, or heartened that his episodes apparently get better. Glad season 7 is good! Season 6 I'd say had been my favourite so far until this run of episodes towards the end. Hopefully the finale ties it all together.

I didn't hate the idea behind the Vic episode at first. The scene with Odo playing piano isn't good, but it is fun. But I really felt that for the episode that finally got Odo and Kira together, there should be more going on (especially with Kira, since this is actually her decision) and less "these five tricks will get the woman you love to like you!" Plus Odo going on holosuite dates with a version of Kira is... seriously creepy and hasn't aged well.

[Werthead]

7 hours ago, sifth said:

So basically it's not plagiarism, if they're ripping off themselves? That's honestly what this sounds like.

Yup. Star Trek loves ripping itself off and does it to the point that it gets beyond a parody: The Motion Picture is basically a rewrite of The Changeling from TOS, Wrath of Khan is basically Space Seed II mixed in with Moby Dick, The Voyage Home is heavily dependent on the TOS time travel episodes and even borrows the same technique, The Naked Now is even in-episode said to be a remake of The Naked Time and so on.

I mean Voyager was so jealous that TNG got to have a "let's be brutally racist about the Irish!" episode that they made two.

Quote

I guess I'm one of the few people who actually enjoyed Vic on DS9. The episode that features him befriending Odo is probably one of my favorites, just because it's one of the few times in the series we get to see Odo actually be happy. I also love the one where he helps Nog recover from his trauma; this episode in particular has brought more than a few tears to my eyes.

I liked Vic a lot. The actor was a lead on The Time Tunnel ("An Irwin Allen Production...In Color!") which aired a lot on Sunday morning TV when I was a kid. Plus Vic is really the focus of maybe three episodes, max, one of which is the two-hander with Nog that everyone loves. He really only shows up as brief support in other episodes.

[RumHam]

There are also two episodes about a village of holograms who don't know they're holograms. DS9 and Enterprise. Rene Auberjonois was in both and pointed it out to the producers but I guess it was too late. 

[karaddin]

I think Vic works better when the "novelty" of Vic isn't the focus. That Nog episode has his emotional journey as it's A plot. Another Vic episode I'd say is still pretty solid does focus on him as the A plot, but the B plot is an emotional arc for Sisko which builds on some of the his other great episodes.

[RumHam]

I am just biting my tongue waiting for @Caligula_K3's reaction to 

mirror vic. seriously wtf.  

 

[Caligula_K3]

1 hour ago, RumHam said:

I am just biting my tongue waiting for @Caligula_K3's reaction to 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

mirror vic. seriously wtf.  

 

 

So.. tempted... to check... spoiler box

[RumHam]

1 minute ago, Caligula_K3 said:

So.. tempted... to check... spoiler box

It's actually very vague! and such a minor thing. but still don't click it! the shear "wait....whatness" of the moment is best left unspoiled 

[Werthead]

14 hours ago, RumHam said:

It's actually very vague! and such a minor thing. but still don't click it! the shear "wait....whatness" of the moment is best left unspoiled 

Ha. The DS9 Companion - easily the best non-fiction book about Star Trek ever written - goes into that episode.

Spoiler

Someone asked how the hell that even made sense but Ira Behr said, "It's the Mirror Universe, it doesn't make any sense, we're rolling with it."

His position was that the Mirror Universe is best-used as a swashbuckling silly place, and shows that treat it seriously and really try to engage with the cartoon darkness of it (cough) are always going to end up being unsatisfying. I imagine he preferred Enterprise's treatment of it to Discovery's.

 

[Aemon Stark]

On 9/9/2020 at 3:26 PM, sifth said:

I guess I'm one of the few people who actually enjoyed Vic on DS9. The episode that features him befriending Odo is probably one of my favorites, just because it's one of the few times in the series we get to see Odo actually be happy. I also love the one where he helps Nog recover from his trauma; this episode in particular has brought more than a few tears to my eyes.

I like Vic but he does show up a lot in the last 30 or so episodes. And season 6 definitely has a string of weak or middling episodes before the end. 

[sifth]

7 hours ago, Werthead said:

Ha. The DS9 Companion - easily the best non-fiction book about Star Trek ever written - goes into that episode.

  Hide contents

Someone asked how the hell that even made sense but Ira Behr said, "It's the Mirror Universe, it doesn't make any sense, we're rolling with it."

His position was that the Mirror Universe is best-used as a swashbuckling silly place, and shows that treat it seriously and really try to engage with the cartoon darkness of it (cough) are always going to end up being unsatisfying. I imagine he preferred Enterprise's treatment of it to Discovery's.

 

I mean he's not wrong, Discovery's biggest problem is it takes itself too seriously and forgets to have fun along the way. This is my biggest complaint with New Trek as a whole; we're no longer allowed to have episodes that are just pure fun. Each episode has to be part of the bigger story arc and usually involve violence in some way. Don't get me wrong, I love the action episodes of Trek, the Dominion and Borg episodes are among my favorites, but I want silly fun episodes to go with them from time to time as well. They help provide so much needed balance I feel. Frascape handle this type of story telling perfectly, IMO

[Aemon Stark]

I think Lower Decks is really finding its legs, especially the most recent episode. It may arguably be Meta Trek, but the absence of a Galactic Stakes level plot is very refreshing. 

[Caligula_K3]

On 9/9/2020 at 8:36 PM, RumHam said:

I am just biting my tongue waiting for @Caligula_K3's reaction to 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

mirror vic. seriously wtf.  

 

 

I just finished Season 6. Was this spoiler box referring to

Spoiler

The wtf? way Dax dies (Gul Dukat possessed by a Pah-Wraith shooting red stuff at her!). Or the Vic scene where he tells Bashir and Quark to get over Dax? If not, maybe let me know what episode the spoiler tag refers to, so I can know when to reveal the secrets.

 

[Durckad]

12 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

I just finished Season 6. Was this spoiler box referring to

  Reveal hidden contents

The wtf? way Dax dies (Gul Dukat possessed by a Pah-Wraith shooting red stuff at her!). Or the Vic scene where he tells Bashir and Quark to get over Dax? If not, maybe let me know what episode the spoiler tag refers to, so I can know when to reveal the secrets.

 

Nope. It's a bit into Season 7. Wait maybe 12 episodes.