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Star Trek: The Wrath of Fans

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So... the writers of Deep Space 9 really went all in on this Pa Wraith stuff, eh? Personally all the Prophets/Pa Wraiths/the Sisko is of Bajor stuff is starting to get a little too mystical for me, kind of like BSG in its last couple of seasons (huh, I wonder if there's a connection there?). I preferred it when there was more ambiguity about whether the Prophets were actually a religious force for good or just some freaky fourth dimensional aliens the Bajorans worshiped.

Still some very good stuff in Season 7 so far. Ezri Dax's actress isn't always great, but she seems like a promising character. And both Kira and Garak got excellent storylines in the episodes I just watched.

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25 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

So... the writers of Deep Space 9 really went all in on this Pa Wraith stuff, eh? Personally all the Prophets/Pa Wraiths/the Sisko is of Bajor stuff is starting to get a little too mystical for me, kind of like BSG in its last couple of seasons (huh, I wonder if there's a connection there?). I preferred it when there was more ambiguity about whether the Prophets were actually a religious force for good or just some freaky fourth dimensional aliens the Bajorans worshiped.

Still some very good stuff in Season 7 so far. Ezri Dax's actress isn't always great, but she seems like a promising character. And both Kira and Garak got excellent storylines in the episodes I just watched.

Well Ronald Moore was one of the head writers on DS9 and the show runner for the BSG remake, so I'd imagine that's what the connection is. I'm not a huge fan of the Pa Wraight stuff either. The Dominion arc was always much more interesting, IMO.

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24 minutes ago, Caligula_K3 said:

Still some very good stuff in Season 7 so far. Ezri Dax's actress isn't always great, but she seems like a promising character.

Some people moan about the episodes spent on Ezri considering she’s only there for one season, but I respect them for sticking to their philosophy. They didn’t abandon any characters, and as a result they have the strongest ensemble. Not a pack of Harry Kim’s and Neelix’s just turning up to be in the background.

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6 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

So... the writers of Deep Space 9 really went all in on this Pa Wraith stuff, eh? Personally all the Prophets/Pa Wraiths/the Sisko is of Bajor stuff is starting to get a little too mystical for me, kind of like BSG in its last couple of seasons (huh, I wonder if there's a connection there?). I preferred it when there was more ambiguity about whether the Prophets were actually a religious force for good or just some freaky fourth dimensional aliens the Bajorans worshiped.

Still some very good stuff in Season 7 so far. Ezri Dax's actress isn't always great, but she seems like a promising character. And both Kira and Garak got excellent storylines in the episodes I just watched.

Most of the writing team worked on both shows. Not just Moore, but Weddle & Thompson as well, and Michael Taylor and Jane Espenson (although they only did a couple of DS9s, Espenson going off to work with Whedon on Buffy and Taylor moving to Voyager instead).

The Prophet stuff I think is important because it bookends the show and connects events in Season 1 with the end, and also slots into the end of the station occupation arc (so they don't just forget that the Prophets vanished the Dominion fleet, there are consequences to that). DS9 actually creates the illusion of having a dramatic through-line from start to finish much more successfully than BSG (where it's clear when the wheels fall off that ride in Season 3), bizarrely, but nowhere near as well as its contemporary, Babylon 5, of course.

Quote

Some people moan about the episodes spent on Ezri considering she’s only there for one season, but I respect them for sticking to their philosophy. They didn’t abandon any characters, and as a result they have the strongest ensemble. Not a pack of Harry Kim’s and Neelix’s just turning up to be in the background.

Yeah, and they carry that through to the supporting cast. Hell, there's interesting characters only introduced in the nine-episode finale arc who get their time in the sun and paid off, let along the recurring and regular cast going back to Season 1. The finale is goddamn magnificent in that fashion (moreso even than TNG's).

Edited by Werthead

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The Pagh Wraith stuff pays off best in the final arc when it results in some amazing character interplay that you never would have imagined only a few episodes earlier... 

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Ha, it's cool guys, I know about the shared writers between DS9 and BSG, especially Ronald Moore- I was making a joke about their reliance on mysticism as a plot device. All of this has happened before and will happen again...

I do really like that DS9 is an ensemble show and fully commits to that. And I have no problem with them exploring a "new" character in the last season. Now that I think about it, many of the best DS9 characters were only introduced in the last couple of seasons- Martok and Weyoun, for example (sorry guys; my jury is still out on Vic Fontaine). It's so hard for me to imagine now that the show existed for four seasons without Weyoun! And Ezri is a good opportunity to explore some of the most interesting questions about the Trill, which the show never pursued with Jadzia Dax as much. I just hope that as the episodes go on we get fewer of the "do I want a ractagino or not? Curzon loved ractaginos! I don't like ractaginos" scenes.

Glad to hear the Prophets/Pa Wraith stuff leads somewhere good. I really had few issues with the Prophets in the earlier seasons, and I loved the episode where a Pa Wraith possessed Keiko. I just hope that the show doesn't go too far into this chosen one/good vs. evil stuff/anime fights stuff.

Edited by Caligula_K3

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To be honest, I rather hate the prophet/Pa Wraith stuff. I always felt the Bajoran's were always the least interesting part of the show.

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Ok, now I'm really enjoying Lower Decks. At first it felt like a guilty pleasure, like someone had tried to smack Rick & Morty humor on Star Trek, but now the show seems to have found its feet and is both funny and interesting. They're using known Trek stuff, but also introducing new stuff that's not completely crazy. All it needs is a core plot of sorts to kick in (with recurring aliens perhaps?) and it'll officially be good.

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CK3 - Weyoun is great, I loved him too

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On 9/20/2020 at 9:18 PM, karaddin said:

CK3 - Weyoun is great, I loved him too

I recently saw an amazing episode that pitted two Weyoun clones against each other. My only regret is that both Weyoun clones didn't survive the episode; it would have been so great to have one Weyoun on DS9 and one on Cardassia.

In general, I have to say, season 7 has been really good. I'm sure there are some bad episodes coming, as they're always are, but there have been some really great episode, and the worst one so far has been Gul Dukat as Pa Wraith cult leader. Which wasn't even that bad, just very weird and not well executed.

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6 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

I recently saw an amazing episode that pitted two Weyoun clones against each other. My only regret is that both Weyoun clones didn't survive the episode; it would have been so great to have one Weyoun on DS9 and one on Cardassia.

In general, I have to say, season 7 has been really good. I'm sure there are some bad episodes coming, as they're always are, but there have been some really great episode, and the worst one so far has been Gul Dukat as Pa Wraith cult leader. Which wasn't even that bad, just very weird and not well executed.

That was a great episode. It was the perfect tribute episode to both Aron Eisenberg and Rene Auberjonois. 

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7 hours ago, Caligula_K3 said:

I recently saw an amazing episode that pitted two Weyoun clones against each other. My only regret is that both Weyoun clones didn't survive the episode; it would have been so great to have one Weyoun on DS9 and one on Cardassia.

In general, I have to say, season 7 has been really good. I'm sure there are some bad episodes coming, as they're always are, but there have been some really great episode, and the worst one so far has been Gul Dukat as Pa Wraith cult leader. Which wasn't even that bad, just very weird and not well executed.

Have you gotten to 

Spoiler

the baseball episode?

Not that is bad, just divisive. I thought it was hilarious.

There's also

Spoiler

The Vic-centric episode, but I liked that one because Sisko got to call out the crewmembers lionising 1960s Vegas as a cool place when it was a hotbed of racism and bigotry. Apparently Avery Brooks wrote a lot of those lines himself.

After that, it's all guns blazing to the very end.

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3 hours ago, Werthead said:

Have you gotten to 

  Reveal hidden contents

the baseball episode?

Not that is bad, just divisive. I thought it was hilarious.

There's also

  Reveal hidden contents

The Vic-centric episode, but I liked that one because Sisko got to call out the crewmembers lionising 1960s Vegas as a cool place when it was a hotbed of racism and bigotry. Apparently Avery Brooks wrote a lot of those lines himself.

After that, it's all guns blazing to the very end.

First episode: yes, and I loved it! Some DS9 light-hearted comedy episodes are terrible, but some hit just the right balance of camp and fun. I was so down for DS9 to become a sports movie for an episode.

I'm not at the second episode yet, but I did run into my first use of Vic that I didn't dislike: the use of his recorded singing in the really brutal episode where the Sisko crew joins a besieged army. Poor Nog :(

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5 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I fucking love the baseball episode. 

I overthink that one. Like a good high school baseball team could have beaten the Logicians. But it combines my two favorite things, Trek and baseball. 

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6 hours ago, Werthead said:

Have you gotten to 

  Hide contents

the baseball episode?

Not that is bad, just divisive. I thought it was hilarious.

There's also

  Hide contents

The Vic-centric episode, but I liked that one because Sisko got to call out the crewmembers lionising 1960s Vegas as a cool place when it was a hotbed of racism and bigotry. Apparently Avery Brooks wrote a lot of those lines himself.

After that, it's all guns blazing to the very end.

I liked the baseball episode as well. The second

Spoiler

Really worked for me only because of Sisko's arc in it. Its an amusing pair of episodes to discuss together actually in that I would have been annoyed by Sisko's anger in the baseball episode if the other characters hadn't called it out, and from memory his anger in the Vic episode is also not entirely clear at first but once he talked it over I'm 100% on team Sisko for it.

 

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The good old baseball episode.............does anyone else remember when Trek was allowed to be fun? You know fun, that thing Alex Kurtzman doesn't like and thinks Trek shouldn't be anymore.

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I've started watching Enterprise recently and it's a lot more fun than I remember, even when one of the earliest episodes is exactly the same plot as one of the final Voyager episodes (Terra Nova/Friendship One). and the talk of the baseball DS9 episode reminds me that this episode and The Andorian Incident prove that while a single Vulcan is often helpful, a group of Vulcans are almost always massive dicks.

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50 minutes ago, Denvek said:

and the talk of the baseball DS9 episode reminds me that this episode and The Andorian Incident prove that while a single Vulcan is often helpful, a group of Vulcans are almost always massive dicks.

I enjoy Enterprise, but I never did understand their take on Vulcans. I forget which episode it is where they’re plotting to blow up some ‘terrorists’, and the guy in charge is just fully, overtly angry. It never gets alluded to why this is the case, he’s just a really angry Vulcan.

I love the meta-ending to the baseball one, you can picture the writers wondering how they’re gonna beat the other team realistically, and then they just figured ‘let’s just pretend we managed to end this episode...? To manufactured victories!’ So many great elements though. Worf’s “We will destroy them” before he’s even learned what the game is, Odo practising his referee moves...

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3 minutes ago, DaveSumm said:

I enjoy Enterprise, but I never did understand their take on Vulcans. I forget which episode it is where they’re plotting to blow up some ‘terrorists’, and the guy in charge is just fully, overtly angry. It never gets alluded to why this is the case, he’s just a really angry Vulcan.

My memory is hazy, but I seem to recall they were planning to reveal one of them was actually a Romulan but never got around to it before the show ended. 

I re-watched Enterprise recently and it's not as bad as I remembered. Just kinda bland and forgettable for the first half of it's run. This extends to the crew too. Probably the only show where I have to think real hard to remember everyone's name. Then they did the mirror episode and everyone was soooo much more interesting I wish that had just been the show. 

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