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LynnS

The House of Undying

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There are some features in the House of Undying that have always been a puzzle:

1) the door seems to be an imitation of the Black Gate.

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

"When you come to the chamber of the Undying, be patient. Our little lives are no more than a flicker of a moth's wing to them. Listen well, and write each word upon your heart."

When they reached the door—a tall oval mouth, set in a wall fashioned in the likeness of a human face—the smallest dwarf Dany had ever seen was waiting on the threshold. He stood no higher than her knee, his faced pinched and pointed, snoutish, but he was dressed in delicate livery of purple and blue, and his tiny pink hands held a silver tray. Upon it rested a slender crystal glass filled with a thick blue liquid: shade of the evening, the wine of warlocks. "Take and drink," urged Pyat Pree.

2) the doors to the Undying seem to be an imitation of the doors at the House of Black and White:

Quote

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

Finally the stair opened. To her right, a set of wide wooden doors had been thrown open. They were fashioned of ebony and weirwood, the black and white grains swirling and twisting in strange interwoven patterns. They were very beautiful, yet somehow frightening. The blood of the dragon must not be afraid. Dany said a quick prayer, begging the Warrior for courage and the Dothraki horse god for strength. She made herself walk forward.

There many other parallels:

- weirwood and shade of the evening trees

- weirwood paste and  the wine of the warlocks 

- rat faced servitors and the cotf

Are there any other features that are imitations of something else created by magic.  And what do you think this means?  For example, the House of Undying is described as flat and serpentine and part of the Wall is described as serpentine.   Is there a connection between the Wall and the House of Undying?  Jon describes the switchback stairs at Castle Black as crooked stitching.  Magic or sorcery is usually described as weaving or sewing.  It also shows up as whorls or patterns, just as Dany sees the doors concealing the undying.   She perceives the carpet in the long hall with whorls of gold:
 

Quote

 

A Clash of Kings - Daenerys IV

The fourth room was oval rather than square and walled in worm-eaten wood in place of stone. Six passages led out from it in place of four. Dany chose the rightmost, and entered a long, dim, high-ceilinged hall. Along the right hand was a row of torches burning with a smoky orange light, but the only doors were to her left. Drogon unfolded wide black wings and beat the stale air. He flew twenty feet before thudding to an undignified crash. Dany strode after him.

The mold-eaten carpet under her feet had once been gorgeously colored, and whorls of gold could still be seen in the fabric, glinting broken amidst the faded grey and mottled green.

 

Is this a reflection of the magic woven into the Wall?  

It seems to me that the warlocks know a lot about the Black Gate/Wall and the House of Black and White.  What do you think?

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There are hidden powers manipulating mankind's actions.  These you described are their symbols.  The symbols of death.  Wars and other destruction are made to happen by these beings.  We will find out who they are in the future.  They want to keep civilizations at a lower level of advancement and the human population under control.

Edited by Jeeves

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6 hours ago, LynnS said:

There are some features in the House of Undying that have always been a puzzle:

1) the door seems to be an imitation of the Black Gate.

2) the doors to the Undying seem to be an imitation of the doors at the House of Black and White:

There many other parallels:

- weirwood and shade of the evening trees

- weirwood paste and  the wine of the warlocks 

- rat faced servitors and the cotf

Are there any other features that are imitations of something else created by magic.  And what do you think this means?  For example, the House of Undying is described as flat and serpentine and part of the Wall is described as serpentine.   Is there a connection between the Wall and the House of Undying?  Jon describes the switchback stairs at Castle Black as crooked stitching.  Magic or sorcery is usually described as weaving or sewing.  It also shows up as whorls or patterns, just as Dany sees the doors concealing the undying.   She perceives the carpet in the long hall with whorls of gold:
 

Is this a reflection of the magic woven into the Wall?  

It seems to me that the warlocks know a lot about the Black Gate/Wall and the House of Black and White.  What do you think?

This is to show the similarities of magic. There is no reason as of yet to think the House of the Undying is related to the magic of the wall other than the fact that they are magical and there is nothing I can remember about the warlocks speaking about the wall 

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I think that magic at its core is the same, but it's the way that it's wielded that would make it different. The warlocks have visions because drink shade-of-the-evening and the greenseers get their visions by being plugged into a weirwood. Not really sure what powers the red priests' visions, especially since a non priest like Stannis received a super accurate vision.

Dany's adventure inside the HotU and her encounter with the Undying themselves reminds me a lot of Jon Snow's own encounter with Othor. The Undying Ones are not breathing or moving, but they still whisper to her and shows her visions, then they try to kill her. They seem to be animated by the heart floating above them.

Othor was animated, given his blue eyes (and the other explanations given by Sam). He is dead, but rises again inside CB, fights with Jon and Ghost (Dany has Drogon with her). 

The Undying Ones and Othor are disposed of the same way, with fire. (What's sort of interesting is that Jon seems to play Drogon's role when he burns Othor and Dany seems to be Ghost at the HotU, if that makes sense. It makes sense in my head).

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47 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

The Undying Ones and Othor are disposed of the same way, with fire. (What's sort of interesting is that Jon seems to play Drogon's role when he burns Othor and Dany seems to be Ghost at the HotU, if that makes sense. It makes sense in my head).

Yes and now he has a burned hand.  He's been marked by fire. I'm reminded of the Fiery Hands of R'hllor.

 I find this subject difficult.  The magic is similar, yes but it's strange to me that there is a door like the Black Gate and doors like the HoB&W .  It feels like there must be a connection to the real thing rather than some kind of psychic projection.  Dany says she is in the presence of sorcery and her mind has been altered by shade of the evening.  What she perceives while under the influence is all psychic projection.  Is it possible that the warlocks of Qaarth have tapped into the power of the Wall?  Melisandre say she is stronger at the Wall and also tells Jon that he can access it's power.  I wonder if others are doing the same.

I think Mel actually drawing on the power of the Wall at one point.  She has stretched her abilities by glamoring Rattleshirt, Stannis' sword, the great horn, Mance. 

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Jon III

Stannis Baratheon drew Lightbringer.

The sword glowed red and yellow and orange, alive with light. Jon had seen the show before … but not like this, never before like this. Lightbringer was the sun made steel. When Stannis raised the blade above his head, men had to turn their heads or cover their eyes. Horses shied, and one threw his rider. The blaze in the fire pit seemed to shrink before this storm of light, like a small dog cowering before a larger one. The Wall itself turned red and pink and orange, as waves of color danced across the ice. Is this the power of king's blood?

Mel is almost overcome by it:

Quote

A Dance with Dragons - Melisandre I

She made it sound a simple thing, and easy. They need never know how difficult it had been, or how much it had cost her. That was a lesson Melisandre had learned long before Asshai; the more effortless the sorcery appears, the more men fear the sorcerer. When the flames had licked at Rattleshirt, the ruby at her throat had grown so hot that she had feared her own flesh might start to smoke and blacken. Thankfully Lord Snow had delivered her from that agony with his arrows. Whilst Stannis had seethed at the defiance, she had shuddered with relief.

Mance does say that he can sometimes feel the heat that connects the ruby at his wrist to Mel's ruby.  But what happens to Mel's ruby at the burning is like massive blow back. 

Edited by LynnS

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1 hour ago, Dorian Martell's son said:

This is to show the similarities of magic. There is no reason as of yet to think the House of the Undying is related to the magic of the wall other than the fact that they are magical and there is nothing I can remember about the warlocks speaking about the wall 

Let me ask you a different question.  Is there a connection between the greenseers and the HoB&W.  Is the many-faced god a weirwood and is the Black Gate another representation of a ghost face hung on the Wall.

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4 hours ago, Jeeves said:

There are hidden powers manipulating mankind's actions.  These you described are their symbols.  The symbols of death.  Wars and other destruction are made to happen by these beings.  We will find out who they are in the future.  They want to keep civilizations at a lower level of advancement and the human population under control.

What do you make of the blue heart at the centre of the HoU.  It's purpose seems to be to consume life.

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1 hour ago, LynnS said:

What do you make of the blue heart at the centre of the HoU.  It's purpose seems to be to consume life.

Or give life to the warlocks and witches around the table.  The heart provides them with life as the trees provide Brynden Rivers with energy to live.  The flesh is rotting though and I suppose it will need replacement every so often. 

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3 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Or give life to the warlocks and witches around the table.  The heart provides them with life as the trees provide Brynden Rivers with energy to live.  The flesh is rotting though and I suppose it will need replacement every so often. 

Any sense of who the old man and woman sitting at the table might be?  They must have been in Dany's position at one time.  Do we get any clues of who they are when Dany sees the splendor of wizards?    

Edited by LynnS

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17 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

Or give life to the warlocks and witches around the table.  The heart provides them with life as the trees provide Brynden Rivers with energy to live.  The flesh is rotting though and I suppose it will need replacement every so often. 

Or maybe their attempt at draining Dany's life has to do with them powering the heart. They recharge it and it keeps them "alive" in return. 

Edited by Alexis-something-Rose

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59 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Any sense of who the old man and woman sitting at the table might be?  They must have been in Dany's position at one time.  Do we get any clues of who they are when Dany sees the splendor of wizards?    

People who dabbled in magic to obtain immortality? 

52 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Or maybe their attempt at draining Dany's life has to do with them powering the heart. They recharge it and it keeps them "alive" in return. 

Could be. 

 

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3 hours ago, LynnS said:

Is there a connection between the greenseers and the HoB&W. 

None at all. 

3 hours ago, LynnS said:

  Is the many-faced god a weirwood and is the Black Gate another representation of a ghost face hung on the Wall.

Nope. The weirwoods represent the magic of all things living. The black gate is magic from the children, which is why the others can't force it. 
The Many faced god is death incarnate. Something beyond religion. Death is what the others use and seek to create through the removal of all warmth from the world 

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8 hours ago, Jeeves said:

There are hidden powers manipulating mankind's actions.  These you described are their symbols.  The symbols of death.  Wars and other destruction are made to happen by these beings.  We will find out who they are in the future.  They want to keep civilizations at a lower level of advancement and the human population under control.

Know who recognized the threat?  Drogon. 

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