Boarders writing a novel

[Ordos]

Just finished Part 1 of my book consisting of 8 chapters. Part 2 will only have 4 chapters. No prologue or epilogue. I'm well on my way to meeting my February 22nd deadline for finishing my book. With editing it, I'm not sure yet. After I've finished writing the book, I will go through 2 rounds of editing. Then It will be ready to be published.

[Derfel Cadarn]

Finished addinng thr flashforward chapters to my first draft of The Blood Hour - its 121k words at thr moment. Now to start the second draft!

[IFR]

My epic series will be a years long endeavor, and it is fun developing it. I would however get my novice work out of the way (these usually are not the most exemplary works).

I have a short novel kicking around in my head. Something that is fascinating to me is the ability of humans to partake of industrial meat, even being vaguely aware of how horrible standards are in that area, and not feel guilty about it - on the contrary, many people celebrate it. Seriously, imagine being tortured just based on the coincidence of being born a pig rather than a human, and then having those who torture you and your community of pigs not only think it's good, but are able to live happy, guilt free lives.

Another thing that interests me is the idea of an objective morality. A lot of people associate with the idea that morality is a system of our reality and not simply their opinion. They like the idea of an objective morality because they believe that naturally the universe would agree with them on what is right and what is wrong.

And finally, I love Lovecraftian mythos.

I'm writing something that marries these ideas. The story takes place in a Calvanistic sort of reality. There is the "chosen" bloodline, who are by definition "holy" and whose existence legend has it preserves the world. The personalities of these members of the bloodline has ranged from benevolent to pretty destructive, but their physical actions in world are irrelevant - they are spiritually good. However, the bloodline has been dying out recently, and there are the last scions - a handful of this bloodline who remain. It's of great interest to the world that they produce children. As the narrative unfolds, more of these scions die without leaving an heir, until there is just one left.

The final scion is the protagonist, and he is a remorseless psychopath. I would like to have his character be something of A Clockwork Orange, Notes from Underground sort of misanthropic individual, enjoying the casual delights of menacing others. But even that's only the public persona. The character has taken an interest in torturing dogs and other small animals, and abducting children to kill and eat. He delights in the suffering of the naive. This is extreme enough that even that character is careful to hide it from the public. At the start of the narrative he has murdered over a hundred children.

I think graphic violence and a grimdark tone is pretty boring, so this will only be subtlety hinted at for much of the story. Eventually of course the character is caught murdering a kid, which I think is the one scene I'll allow some detail in the nature of the murder. A kangaroo court ensues, because the character's actions cannot by definition be wrong. And so he's released. But then murdered by the mother of the last victim.

The point of view then switches to the mother of the victim, and she is the antithesis of the scion. She cares for others, goes out of her way to help people, and ultimately is spiritually inferior to the scion. Her deep sadness and rage at the injustice of her lost child and her disgust at the actions of the scion and a society that is willing to protect that kind of monster, and the desire to save future children motivates her to murder the scion. She's also accustomed to being more intelligent than the characters around her, and believes that the religious institutions promote baseless superstitions, and that they are more to control and oppress the population.

It turns out she called that one wrong. With the last of the bloodline dead, reality slowly starts to warp, and a gradual hellish apocalypse envelops the world over the rest of the narrative. She manages to survive to the very end, seeing all her loved ones suffer in far more horrifying ways than her slain child. While I think dark fantasy and horror is very fun and will be awesome to write about, I do want this segment of the book to be a focus on the psychological journey she undergoes, as she slowly overcomes her cognitive dissonance and realizes that she is in fact spiritually evil and that the murder of her child was a moral good and her revenge was a terrible sin.

Edited August 6, 2021 by IFR

[Starkess]

Got a short accepted into an anthology. Not a pro market, but paying, and there will be print copies so I'm going to get a contributor's copy! This is only my second short story sale so I'm pretty jazzed. 

[Lord Patrek]

50 minutes ago, Starkess said:

Got a short accepted into an anthology. Not a pro market, but paying, and there will be print copies so I'm going to get a contributor's copy! This is only my second short story sale so I'm pretty jazzed. 

Congrats!

Let us know if it will be available online so we can read it!

[Centrist Simon Steele]

On 7/10/2021 at 2:41 AM, Lin Meili said:

Lovely!

Haha, yes! I cater to the light novel/manga readers so my covers reflect that.

Covers as they appear on amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B094DDCGBX

The artwork I commissioned:

I actually added the text myself with Canva.

 

It's not my style of cover--but I can absolutely see it works and is excellent work for the audience. Your cover looks like a professional Manga cover. Ugh. (Ugh in reference to thinking about mine)

On 7/11/2021 at 12:35 PM, Lord Patrek said:

Getting your manuscript professionally edited is indeed quite meaningful. But it can be quite expensive as well. The agent who repped me for my first manuscript recommended that I get it edited by a pro, which I did. But for an 800+ manuscript, that added up to over 1500$. That was circa 2007, so I have no idea how costly it can be these days.

But if you are going to self-publish, that's an enormous investment that you might never recoup. Given that the indie authors on this board sell a couple of hundred copies at best, is it a smart investment?

I know an indie writer who paid 2500$ for a Stephen Martiniere cover. It looks spectacular, but the self-published novel wasn't that good. I doubt he ever came close to breaking even, so it's hard to say how worthwhile the investment turned out to be. A beautiful cover will attract some attention, but ultimately it's all about the book itself.

What do you self-published folks think??

I paid about the same (2020), and she did lots of small edits/proof reading, though she said it was very clean when she got it. I hope so--I revised and edited for years! 

My guess is I'll never "break even" after spending a chunk on editing, but if a handful of people were to read my book and love it, that's more important. And to provide them a quality product for their time is more important to me than a cover. 

Though, like I mentioned, I'll be recommissioning my cover soon enough.

 

[IFR]

I have to say, everyone, writing is a fun, surprising experience. I'm aiming for 100k words for the rough draft, and then want to edit it down to as close to 80k as I can get it.

The protagonist really took on a life of his own. I initially imagined him as an Alex of Clockwork Orange character, but as soon as I started writing he became a weird combination of Iago from Othello and Sidney Farber. He's a doctor who runs several charitable institutes, including a hospital dedicated to the treatment and research of childhood maladies. In a Jimmy Seville sense, this of course gives him a good public image and easy access to children. He can openly torture children for medical research purposes, and also easily "disappear" the orphan children for food. This allows him mental stimulation as he legimately cares about advancing research (not to help people, but to avoid boredom).

His social life is destructively manipulating people. One of the socialites that he runs the children's hospital with has come to see him as a close personal friend who isn't a creep. She even confided to him about her worst life experience, when she had a childhood romance that led to a birth at 13 years old. Her parents were scandalized and forced her to give up the child. She has always wanted to find her son, and thinks often of the child.

The protagonist finally tracked down the son, and has an associate reunite them, but not in the conventional sense. The son is a handsome but impoverished gentleman of twenty. The protagonist, colluding with his hired associates, conspires to get them to fall in love - in a kind on Emma-esque way (Jane Austin is one of my favorite authors). And he succeeds. They fall in love and marry. The mother and son are of course unaware of their familial connection.Toward the end of the scion's half of the narrative, he has his associate reveal publicly the incest. A scandal ensues, and the son and mother are imprisoned. The scion has a lot of power in the city and promises the socialite that he will plead on her behalf. When consulted on how judgement should proceed, he recommends that the son be put to death and the mother be flogged and have her tongue removed. After the sentence is carried out, he pays her one last visit and gloats about what he did, rejoicing at her horror.

This character is fun to write about. I do want to have a Jane Austen tone as he interacts with other characters, including the other scions. I'm trying to write him to be charming, building trust with all these different characters. And then of course when he's caught murdering a child for consumption and the full extent of what he has done is revealed, I look forward to just really going wild as people try to understand the man behind the mask who they thought was their friend, while also trying to reconcile this with their belief that this guy is holy.

Also, I'm making sure to write him so that he very rarely feels anything but pleasure and amusement. He's morally good, and morally good characters are rewarded. Even when he's revealed he only thing he feels is curiosity and amusement, and when he is killed, his last moments are brief surprise and a sudden sense of pure bliss (implying his ascension to heaven).

His counterpoint will be the one who kills him out of revenge for murdering her child. She's evil, and so she seldom feels pleasure - mostly fear, desperation, and constant anxiety in her concern for others, and extreme stress trying to help everyone.

Really enjoying this!

[Derfel Cadarn]

On 7/25/2021 at 11:08 PM, Aurelius Talhoffer said:

 

if you don't mind me asking, how old were all of you when you started writing more purposefully? 

Me, I'm fresh off avoiding to celebrate my 40tieth. 

What I fear is, given my not so tender age, does it even make sense to give it a go?! 

As I read through this thread, I am feeling quite discouraged. I start to think it's all a fools errand.

Then again, when I finally do go to bed and try to sleep, I find myself sketching characters in my head, coming up with worldbuilding trivia and book themes. I think of meticulous plot lines and narrative threads, even draw up dialogues in my head. Obsession might be an understatement...

I was 28 when I finally started writing properly. First two attempts were abandoned. I was 31 when I started Resurrection Men, 36 when I started shopping it around, 38 when it was accepted by a small press, 39 when it came out, and just turned 42 when I got taken on by an agent (with my 4th finished novel).

Edited August 9, 2021 by Derfel Cadarn

[IFR]

Progress continues to be made, hence the frequent updates. This is a new and exciting experience for me, and so I've become rather obsessed. I know many don't like to talk about their work until it's complete. I guess I'm the opposite.

I've realized while writing that one of thing biggest challenges is to develop unique and, more importantly, interesting characters. And the backdrop that motivates each scene has to be compelling in some way. The scion will largely spend his time in three ways.

First, interacting with the other scions and developing that mythos (exploring the mechanics of an objective metaphysics, a la Bakker, I think is a fun and intriguing thing).

Second, there will be a bit of a mystery. The protagonist finds a letter that suggests that someone knows what he did - an attempt at blackmail. The protagonist is vaguely diquieted by this, but is mostly curious and enjoys the cat and mouse interplay. It turns out in the end it is not his serial killing the blackmailed was referring to. Rather, at the beginning a chimney boy's wooden ladder collapses. The chinney boy is paralyzed. Out of idle amusement the protagonist, knowing chimney boys used that ladder, had sabotaged it earlier to see what would happen. Someone had witnessed it. I'm not sure how this will be resolved yet.

Third, his research as a child pathologist. Technology and medicine of the time will be roughly aligned with late Industrial Revolution, shortly before the Age of Information. So about the 1860s to 1890s. This was actually a very exciting time for medicine, as an understanding of germ theory was being advanced, effective anesthesia was introduced, and other aspects of medicine were pioneered such as radical surgery, etc. I think this is fascinating in its own right. Also, this is an opportunity to interwine the narratives of the protagonists. If the book is going to be 80k, there's simply no way to really develop the characters in the secondary protagonist's tale otherwise (instead of referring to her as a deutagonist, I do think she is aptly described as an antagonist). I don't want the characters she cares about to simply be meat for the grinder when she triggers the apocalypse. We have to know them and like them, so the consequences of her evil are made physical, not just metaphysical.

Also, her daughter will be the final victim of the protagonist. I'm writing her to be very bright (not a genius, but bright). She's ten years old and the protagonist has known her since she was five. He takes on a mentor role for her, and she absolutely adores him as a kind of "uncle". I think that audiences are generally tuned to expect a smart kidwho shows lots of promise to have plot armor, especially if she is being mentored. I also think there is benevolent sexism that is prevalent: people are more protective of little girls than little boys. So when it becomes too irresistible for the protagonist and he finally beats her severely and then starts to remove parts from her, it will hopefully be surprising. Especially since up to that point it will not be at all clear that he has been a child serial killer (there will certainly have been hints about it though).

The goal is to write the protagonist to be very mixed for most of his part of the narrative. He will be charming and wonderful to a lot of characters, but his internal dialog will be utterly lacking empathy. And of course, by the end he'll be backstabbing and destroying people left and right, his duplicity revealed, to culminate in the murder of a girl who trusted and loved him, and later have a trial go on about his many other crimes.

I want people to revile him in the end, and celebrate and feel catharsis at his murder. The irony of course is that the murder is not remotely a punishment for him. It's the best reward possible, and it's the worst punishment for everyone else. But I feel like the audience will have a hard time decoupling their conventional sense that murder = successful revenge and justice, so it should be a fun spin.

[Starkess]

You are writing a very dark book! Sounds interesting, though.

[IFR]

1 hour ago, Starkess said:

You are writing a very dark book! Sounds interesting, though.

Thank you! I guess the darkness is part and parcel with cosmic horror. I do hope to avoid grotesqueries as much as possible though. The child murder will have some detail because it is the climax and change of the audience's perception of the character (hopefully) and the detailing of such a terrible thing will perhaps enhance the impact. But for the most part my goal is to have minimal violence and no sex. As much as I like horror, I get bored with the fetishization of violence that is often encountered in the genre. I think even when exploring the apocalypse, the gore and "scariness" are far less interesting than the individual psychological journey and the sociological effects as people begin to become increasingly panicked as the world around them collapses into a nightmare of insanity.

[Lin Meili]

On 8/7/2021 at 11:53 PM, Centrist Simon Steele said:

It's not my style of cover--but I can absolutely see it works and is excellent work for the audience. Your cover looks like a professional Manga cover.

Thanks. 

Quote

My guess is I'll never "break even" after spending a chunk on editing, but if a handful of people were to read my book and love it, that's more important. And to provide them a quality product for their time is more important to me than a cover. 

I say, spend whatever you want on your work. There are people who pay over a thousand dollars for one collectible figure, and I think it's better to spend money on your own creative work than to buy other people's stuff. If you can afford it, why not. I'm jealous! I wish I had money to spend on editing, but I don't.

I was able to sell seventy-five books (e-book and paperback) which just about covers the cost of the art.This does not include the money I got from Patreon.

By the way, I'm not sure if the authors here already know, but Patreon is a good way to earn money. The successful writers on Scribblehub and Royal Road can earn mid-to-high four figures there.

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

Making progress editing the last story for my anthology but also have finals this coming week. Ugh.

[The Marquis de Leech]

Latest Old Phuul chapter done.

This really is the make or break chapter, in the sense that the authorial gloves come off, and I reveal what, exactly, the protagonist is. I want the reader to think "No, Rhea... don't do it!", not "you sick weirdo," even if she actually is.

[IFR]

Progress continues to be made, but already I've had to make a significant revision. I found that the blackmail subplot is just too generic, and diverts too much from the rest of the narrative. The subplot has some positive aspects, but those can be explored in other ways. The suggestive letter is just too common a trope.

I instead decided to amplify the medical drama as the momentum for the story until the apocalypse. It will allow me to give a specific cast more presence to develop, and as far as I'm aware medical research is not at all common in fantasy. The idea I have is that there has been a recent outbreak of illness in children at a clothing factory by the docks. Germ theory is being developed, so the protagonist and his colleagues suspect that it has something to do with the water and sanitation. They believe that potentially there are microorganisms that exist that could be causing these symptoms. 

It does in fact turn out that it is not bacteria, but radiation that is affecting the children (clear inspiration of the Radium Girls). It's due to a recently discovered substance that has been found to be heavily concentrated in the pitchblende of a nearby mine. It fluoresces in the dark, and it has become fashionable to coat clothing threads in it. The children who sew the garments in the factory will suck on the tip of the thread to insert it through the eye of a needle,  thereby ingesting radium. Radium gets into their bones and emits damaging alpha and gamma radiation (although the kinds of radiation will not be explored in this book).

I think this is the best approach, and there are several things I like about it. As mentioned earlier, I don't think anyt story like this has been done before in the fantasy genre; also, it will allow more focus for character development. 

Another thing I like is that there will be a chance to give a more realistic spin to the journey of scientific discovery. Countless fantasy books have a genius character, and the author feels obligated, because their character is a genius, to make the protagonist responsible for all the discoveries and breakthroughs in their world. That will not be the case here. There are no super geniuses in this book. There are intelligent, dedicated professionals, including the protagonist. And they will come up with a good, solid hypothesis for what is happening. And they will be wrong. Someone else will make the breakthrough identifying the cause of the illness, and the protagonist and colleagues will be very skeptical, because you often see even intelligent people deep in science get married to their pet hypothesis and not be dissuaded by sound evidence against their hypothesis.

And even though the hypothesis for this scenario was incorrect, a lot of useful science was still discovered.

I also want to explore the collaborative nature of discovery. The protagonist will be important in the development of germ theory, but he will only be a cog in the great machinery of medicine.

And finally, it's cool to me to think that in a different world, radiation is discovered in a different way. In this world, pathologists are the world's first nuclear physicists.

Edited August 15, 2021 by IFR

[Ordos]

My story is told in a first person narrative told from a poor and/or working class person. Apart from one incident, he does no heroic acts and even witnesses others do heroic acts including saving his life as well as witnesses heroic acts from a woman. I was criticized on another forum that my main protagonist is not a heroine, but to make up for that my main protagonist is a witness to strong female characters. My only defense is that I'm not a woman.

While the structure of my book puts limitations on how much of the world my character can see as opposed to a person higher up in social status, this viewpoint is what the majority of people would be seeing. He also does no heroic acts because I really wanted to have readers be able to put themselves in my character's position. For most of the book, my character only struggles to survive. I wanted to try to imagine what I would be doing in a warped reality.

These limitations also give me liberty to not focus too much on world building and instead tell the story I want to tell. My main character has one brief moment of revelation and a window to the bigger picture of his reality (the alternate history of his world) in the latter half of the book. It's one of the things the story is building towards. The payoff (is that the correct term?)

[The Marquis de Leech]

Knocked off a 4,600 word short story today, so that feels vaguely satisfying.

[Ordos]

Writing the last chapter of my book. After I've finished writing it, two rounds of editing and the book is done. I am hoping to be done in early to mid October.

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

Finished updating the world bible for Mistland. Still on track to self-publish by the end of this month.

[The Grey Wolf Strikes Back]

In the course of editing “Anathema (Part I)” I ended up writing an additional 4.5 pages so now the story is 37 pages and the anthology as a whole 164 pages sans artwork, title page, etc. Waiting on my editor and beta-reader to finish going through it one last time. After that, I’ll make a publisher’s account on Amazon, go through the tutorial, and upload the file, at which point y’all can finally buy it!