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Malgoth

Theory of the origins of Aegon *Young Griff*

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19 hours ago, Moiraine Sedai said:

Rhaegar was not trying to have another heir. He was no longer the heir himself.  The third child does not have to be legit.  If he even had a third child.

Griff can really be Aegon.  He is slightly older than Daenerys.  The age is correct.  The appearance is true Targaryen.  But he can also easily be a fake.  A foundling from Lys.  Blackfyre is possible but not necessary.  

I really don't think that Rhaegar cared about the spare, but he really believed about the prophecy of the Prince That Was Promised, which he, for some reason, connected with Tarq's saying "dragon has three heads".

 

13 hours ago, corbon said:

The dragon has three heads.
The Valyrian word for dragon is prince.
A bastard is not a prince.

Daemon Blackfyre was a bastard, but still more dragon that the most of Targaryens. In any way, Aegon (YG), probably isn't a "the Prince" from the prophecy, but still can be one of the hear. On other hand : if Dragon has three heads, how many heads would have two dragons?

 

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Posted (edited)
15 minutes ago, Malgoth said:

I really don't think that Rhaegar cared about the spare, but he really believed about the prophecy of the Prince That Was Promised, which he, for some reason, connected with Tarq's saying "dragon has three heads"

I don't know what this means either.  Aemon seems to know:

Quote

A Feast for Crows - Samwell IV

That had been one of his last good days. After that the old man spent more time sleeping than awake, curled up beneath a pile of furs in the captain's cabin. Sometimes he would mutter in his sleep. When he woke he'd call for Sam, insisting that he had to tell him something, but oft as not he would have forgotten what he meant to say by the time that Sam arrived. Even when he did recall, his talk was all a jumble. He spoke of dreams and never named the dreamer, of a glass candle that could not be lit and eggs that would not hatch. He said the sphinx was the riddle, not the riddler, whatever that meant. He asked Sam to read for him from a book by Septon Barth, whose writings had been burned during the reign of Baelor the Blessed. Once he woke up weeping. "The dragon must have three heads," he wailed, "but I am too old and frail to be one of them. I should be with her, showing her the way, but my body has betrayed me."

I'm not sure what showing her the way means.  Dany goes to the HoU because she wants knowledge; to be shown the way.  So are the three heads of the dragon the father, mother and teacher?  Three heads of the dragon has been primarily interpreted as three dragon riders or three riders with Targ ancestry.  I'm not sure how this shows Dany the way.

 

Edited by LynnS

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9 hours ago, Malgoth said:

Daemon Blackfyre was a bastard, but still more dragon that the most of Targaryens.

Not in terms of prophecy he wasn't.

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On 5/26/2020 at 7:18 AM, CassDarry said:

Varys is the one claiming to have saved Aegon back in Kings Landing surely he would know of this Aegon is Targaryen or not.....unless what you are saying is that Varys switched Aegon for the Pisswater Prince, who later got his head smashed in by Gregor, but when Varys gave Aegon to Illyrio, Illyrio switched Aegon for a Blackfyre baby? 

That would be funny....Man makes plans but gods laugh

That's the double-swap theory, although such a theory doesn't require a Blackfyre specifically.

On 5/26/2020 at 5:23 PM, LynnS said:

Given Illyrio's sentimentality concerning Griff, I'd say the statue in his garden is not an image of himself as a boy; but an image of Griff surrounded by his cherry picked guardians:

 So we get Griff's hair color and approximate age

The statue has blond hair rather than blue or Targaryen silver/white. And unless the statue was built very recently (Illyrio claims it was made when he was that age), you wouldn't expect it to be the same age as Young Griff.

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7 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

The statue has blond hair rather than blue or Targaryen silver/white. And unless the statue was built very recently (Illyrio claims it was made when he was that age), you wouldn't expect it to be the same age as Young Griff.

I don't believe what Illyrio says about the statue.  The juxtaposition of six cherry picked guardian trees surrounding a youth of Aegon's age standing in a pond holding a sword; should put people in mind of young Griff and his guardians on the Rhoyne.  It's Illyrio who gives Aegon the sword and armor.

I also won't dismiss, silver/white hair that is tinted to disguise Aegon either.  It would stand out in Pentos and this could be a ruse continued with blue hair.  

Illyrio may just fancy himself as a young Aegon.  Comparing himself to Aegon in his youth.  Yes a recent statue since Aegon is leaving for good.  A reminder of Aegon which he becomes quite maudlin about when Tyrion leaves him.

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On 5/30/2020 at 8:01 AM, LynnS said:

I don't believe what Illyrio says about the statue.  The juxtaposition of six cherry picked guardian trees surrounding a youth of Aegon's age standing in a pond holding a sword; should put people in mind of young Griff and his guardians on the Rhoyne.  It's Illyrio who gives Aegon the sword and armor.

I also won't dismiss, silver/white hair that is tinted to disguise Aegon either.  It would stand out in Pentos and this could be a ruse continued with blue hair.  

Illyrio may just fancy himself as a young Aegon.  Comparing himself to Aegon in his youth.  Yes a recent statue since Aegon is leaving for good.  A reminder of Aegon which he becomes quite maudlin about when Tyrion leaves him.

When Arya sees Illyrio talking with Varys, she notes that he's very light on his feet for a fat man, reminding her of Syrio Forel. Illyrio claims that the statue was made when he was a young bravo (hence the bravo's blade). A water dancer is also supposed to be able to move through water without disturbing it. Young Griff was trained by a Westerosi exile, not a water dancer, and and he's trained with a longsword rather than a rapier. The nudity of the statue also fits with Illyrio's story of an admirer having it made. Finally, Aegon being a secret who is supposed to belong to Griff is a reason NOT to make a statue of him on Illyrio's property.

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, FictionIsntReal said:

When Arya sees Illyrio talking with Varys, she notes that he's very light on his feet for a fat man, reminding her of Syrio Forel. Illyrio claims that the statue was made when he was a young bravo (hence the bravo's blade). A water dancer is also supposed to be able to move through water without disturbing it. Young Griff was trained by a Westerosi exile, not a water dancer, and and he's trained with a longsword rather than a rapier. The nudity of the statue also fits with Illyrio's story of an admirer having it made. Finally, Aegon being a secret who is supposed to belong to Griff is a reason NOT to make a statue of him on Illyrio's property.

And yet Illyrio's story covers that up nicely, if anyone outside the walls of Illyrio's manse should ever see it.  It's a lovely conceit for a fat man and a lot of cheese.  The best lies mix in some of the truth.

 ETA: https://www.quora.com/Why-do-shills-mix-truth-with-lies 

Edited by LynnS

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12 hours ago, LynnS said:

And yet Illyrio's story covers that up nicely, if anyone outside the walls of Illyrio's manse should ever see it.  It's a lovely conceit for a fat man and a lot of cheese.  The best lies mix in some of the truth.

 ETA: https://www.quora.com/Why-do-shills-mix-truth-with-lies 

If you want to keep a secret, don't spend a lot of money on a visible reference to it that you then have to explain away, even if you can mix truth and lies into your explanation.

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Posted (edited)
21 minutes ago, FictionIsntReal said:

If you want to keep a secret, don't spend a lot of money on a visible reference to it that you then have to explain away, even if you can mix truth and lies into your explanation.

Illyrio is vastly wealthy.  If he can afford to purchase three dragon eggs; commissioning a statue is a pittance.  Money is no object to him.  What he tells Tyrion sounds like a practiced lie to me.  He is a liar if you recall the lies he told Viserys.  Tyrion doesn't describe the face on the statue, he does say it is lifelike.  However, if Dany has seen it; that could be relevant when she meets Aegon.  She might recognize the face from the statue.  

Edited by LynnS

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7 minutes ago, LynnS said:

Illyrio is vastly wealthy.  If he can afford to purchase three dragon eggs; commissioning a statue is a pittance.  Money is no object to him.  What he tells Tyrion sounds like a practiced lie to me.  He is a liar if you recall the lies he told Viserys.  Tyrion doesn't describe the face on the statue, he does say it is lifelike.  However, if Dany has seen it; that could be relevant when she meets Aegon.  She might recognize the face from the statue.  

The point is not whether Illyrio can afford it, but that it's a needless risk. If you're involved in a secret plot, some lying might be necessary to cover it up. A statue is not at all necessary.

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On 5/26/2020 at 8:18 AM, CassDarry said:

Varys is the one claiming to have saved Aegon back in Kings Landing surely he would know of this Aegon is Targaryen or not.....unless what you are saying is that Varys switched Aegon for the Pisswater Prince, who later got his head smashed in by Gregor, but when Varys gave Aegon to Illyrio, Illyrio switched Aegon for a Blackfyre baby? 

That would be funny....Man makes plans but gods laugh

Varys sent the real baby to Pentos.  Magister switches babies and gets rid of the real boy.  Sends his boy Connington.

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