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Hey everyone, this is my first post and I wanted to ask some questions I’m dying to have answered. We hear about this private company of men(The Ravens Teeth) that is loyal to Blood Raven. Supposedly it was around 200 men that took the black when BR joined the watch. So my questions are:

were those the only members of the Ravens Teeth?

are there any remaining Ravens Teeth at the  watch (Maybe Cotter Pyke)?

Are there any Lords or leaders who are Ravens Teeth (maybe Varys, Euron or Beric)?

Let me know what you guys think, I would love any feed back! 

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Bloodraven was sent to the Wall in 233.  Any men sent with him are likely deceased by now.  (Aemon's long life was an anomaly.)

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On 9/19/2020 at 6:10 PM, Isobel Harper said:

Bloodraven was sent to the Wall in 233.  Any men sent with him are likely deceased by now.  (Aemon's long life was an anomaly.)

True. And maybe one of the RT came back and is now going by the alias Coldhands? :wideeyed:

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18 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

True. And maybe one of the RT came back and is now going by the alias Coldhands? :wideeyed:

A distinct possibility.  Although, in my heart of hearts, I will always hold out hope that Coldhands is Benjen Stark.  And, yes, I'm fully aware of Martin's manuscript margin note on the subject.  I'm also fully aware that a great many things changed between that manuscript and the actual story.  Benjen certainly is conspicuous in his absence, isn't he?!  But, in the end, he's probably someone far older (e.g., speaking a language Bran doesn't recognize, etc.) or maybe he's actually being warged by Bloodraven?  Although, I doubt that, too.  I believe Coldhands is someone resurrected in the same manner that Beric Donderrion, Lady Stoneheart, Moqorro, etc. were resurrected.

Anyway, to bring this at least somewhat back on topic: Wow, the current Night's Watch is a very pale shadow compared to what it must have been when Bloodraven and the Raven's Teeth were added to the ranks! 

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5 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

A distinct possibility.  Although, in my heart of hearts, I will always hold out hope that Coldhands is Benjen Stark.  And, yes, I'm fully aware of Martin's manuscript margin note on the subject.  I'm also fully aware that a great many things changed between that manuscript and the actual story. 
 

I’m not sure whether you’re talking about the outline or the manuscript for ADwD here. The “NO” Martin wrote in reply to his editor asking if CH is Benjen is in the manuscript for ADwD, not the outline... 

5 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Benjen certainly is conspicuous in his absence, isn't he?!   

5 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

But, in the end, he's probably someone far older (e.g., speaking a language Bran doesn't recognize, etc.) or maybe he's actually being warged by Bloodraven? 
 

Yeah, I think CH is older... and we have Leaf saying “they killed him long ago”, so could fit w/ a RT. I would so love that. 

 

5 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

 

Although, I doubt that, too.  I believe Coldhands is someone resurrected in the same manner that Beric Donderrion, Lady Stoneheart, Moqorro, etc. were resurrected.

I think all resurrected people are more similar than it seems at first. But the ice wights seem to have less agency/control/memories/ etc. And in CH’s case, I think he is an ice wight, but the wightification didn’t take for some reason, or he was partially “restored” to his old, living self. If that makes sense?

5 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Anyway, to bring this at least somewhat back on topic: Wow, the current Night's Watch is a very pale shadow compared to what it must have been when Bloodraven and the Raven's Teeth were added to the ranks! 

Definitely! BR, the RT, and young maester Aemon!


This is in reply to the bit about Benjen, b/c something went wrong w/ the quote:

For a long time I thought he might be hiding in one of the Wall’s abandoned castles. But then I read an essay by @sweetsunray that sort of crushed my hopes of ever seeing Benjen again.
 

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3 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

I’m not sure whether you’re talking about the outline or the manuscript for ADwD here. The “NO” Martin wrote in reply to his editor asking if CH is Benjen is in the manuscript for ADwD, not the outline... 

Ah...so you're saying a "great deal" did not change between that manuscript margin note and the actual story (but a great deal did change between the much earlier outline and the actual story)?  Yes, I'm probably conflating the two. 

Leaf's "They killed him long ago" confuses me as well (oh, you crafty Martin).  I mean, who're "they" here?  Is she referring to Others/wights?  That seemingly wouldn't make sense because hasn't been but a few years since the Wildlings' searching for the Horn of Winter started "releasing shades from the graves" (or however it was worded exactly)?  Or is Leaf just referring to Wildlings or someone else?  Also, if Coldhands has existed for a long time, what has he been doin' all that time?  Just chillin' in a cave?  Maybe he's been dead for a long time but just recently resurrected or whatever?  But that seemingly wouldn't make sense either given that he doesn't seem to be terribly decomposed, etc.  Questions, questions, questions! :D    

  

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11 minutes ago, Prince of the North said:

Ah...so you're saying a "great deal" did not change between that manuscript margin note and the actual story (but a great deal did change between the much earlier outline and the actual story)?  Yes, I'm probably conflating the two. 
 

Yeah, that’s what I was getting at exactly. I mean, I know it’s been almost 10 years since we got ADwD, but I don’t think the story changed from then to now, despite Martin’s gardening style. And of course, as I type I realise that’s not very accurate, because between then and now we have, for instance, that “twist” he was undecided about and in the end decided to go for. So there you go. :D

 

Quote

Leaf's "They killed him long ago" confuses me as well (oh, you crafty Martin).  I mean, who're "they" here?  Is she referring to Others/wights?  That seemingly wouldn't make sense because hasn't been but a few years since the Wildlings' searching for the Horn of Winter started "releasing shades from the graves" (or however it was worded exactly)?  Or is Leaf just referring to Wildlings or someone else?  Also, if Coldhands has existed for a long time, what has he been doin' all that time?  Just chillin' in a cave?  Maybe he's been dead for a long time but just recently resurrected or whatever?  But that seemingly wouldn't make sense either given that he doesn't seem to be terribly decomposed, etc.  Questions, questions, questions! :D    

  

True. But I don’t think all that digging searching for the HoJ did anything... I think Ygritte is just being superstitious. I do think CH was killed by Others/wights. :dunno:

And YES, Martin is a crafty little :devil:, and that’s one of the reasons we love him! 

 

Edited by kissdbyfire

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13 hours ago, Prince of the North said:

Leaf's "They killed him long ago" confuses me as well (oh, you crafty Martin).  I mean, who're "they" here?  Is she referring to Others/wights?  That seemingly wouldn't make sense because hasn't been but a few years since the Wildlings' searching for the Horn of Winter started "releasing shades from the graves"

I guess the "shades released from the graves" are nothing but poetic addition,  and that the others has been present north of the wall all the time (most of the time) since the battle of the dawn. Very few and/or weak until now, but present.

Edited by broken one

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Yeah, pretty much agreed.  But I can't wait for more explanation of how this all works?  I mean, specifically, why are the Others coming back now?  Is it really just a sort of balancing of mystical forces type of thing where magic is increasing in the world again with dragons being born, etc. so the Others are increasing in activity, etc., too?  It's been thousands of years.  What's going on?  Why now?  There seems to be a sort of cycle here...but what drives it?  I hope we get those and many more answers.:) 

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On 9/24/2020 at 1:51 AM, Prince of the North said:

That seemingly wouldn't make sense because hasn't been but a few years since the Wildlings' searching for the Horn of Winter started "releasing shades from the graves" (or however it was worded exactly)? 

 

On 9/24/2020 at 2:51 PM, broken one said:

guess the "shades released from the graves" are nothing but poetic addition,  and that the others has been present north of the wall all the time (most of the time) since the battle of the dawn. Very few and/or weak until now, but present

 

:thumbsup:

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