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U.S. Politics: Only Death Can Pay For Growth


Jace, Extat

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Police in Minneapolis or St. Paul, or worse, another U.S. city, are going to kill a protester and everything is going to go fucking sideways.

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7 hours ago, Rippounet said:

However, based on other things we know...

Yeah, they really didn't want Sanders to even have a chance. Not that Sanders was necessarily going to win, but he had a chance and moderates could absolutely not allow that to happen.
So they chose Biden (not the voters).
A moderate would probably have won in the end mind you, but we don't know that it was going to be Biden.

Well that's first past the post in a nutshell right?  Build your coalition ahead of time and come across at election time as the least unappealing.  Granted that doesn't sound terribly inspiring, but it's got a fair amount of practicality built in, if you're somewhat centrist.  (Which statistically, the middle usually is.)

6 hours ago, DMC said:

No.  David Rohde made this contention 30 years in an otherwise really great work.  He's since not only backed off from that, but explicitly emphasized he was wrong.  Even conceptually, you're taking something that has existed since Elbridge Gerry was alive and applying it to the polarized shift in the electorate that's happened in the last 40 years.  That don't follow.  It exacerbates the partisan makeup of the House to one part or another, sure.  But that is a very marginal effect.

I think things have probably gotten amplified since you can draw districts with the aid of databases in a way you couldn't in the 18th century, or whenever Gerry first got frisky with a map.  I also suspect that gerrymandered majority minority districts are also going to amplify partisan divides as long as those minorities vote along reliably partisan lines.  Thinking of that district in the Carolinas, not even sure if it's still as bad, but that was 3 or 4 urban areas connected only by bands of interstate dozens of miles long.  Pretty much locks in that district, and helps lock in neighboring districts the other way.  Under a lot of conditions, the minority could have a lot more influence in tipping 4 or 5 elections than in guaranteeing one.  Has that been a study?  Maybe it never works out that way in practice, but mandating that certain districts are going to go to certain parties (in both directions effectively, though not explicitly) is going to lead to more extreme candidates from both parties in their favored map districts

6 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:
6 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:


I hate the Democratic party (not the DFL though). I view myself as to the left of communism. But being pragmatic is what wins the day, and that's all that matters, because nothing matters without the power to change things, and sometimes that means you pick the lesser of two evils and accept it. And that's okay.

I was at the driving range today, and I think whoever controls the PA is a Billy Joel fan.  Heard "Angry Young Man", reminded me of these threads.  Left of communism and pragmatic seems tough to square tbh, unless you're going full Stalinesque. 

(Sorry TGU, can't figure out how to delete that tag basically said what I wanted to re gerrymandering above)

1 hour ago, DMC said:

Don't tell me what to do with my tits!

The proper formulation is "My titties, my choice".

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4 hours ago, DMC said:

Absolutely nothing and never.  Ya know what I find most amusing about this continuous consternation?  Even Bernie has moved on and is working with Biden.  But still fucking fuck the goddamned fuck.

Preach, brotha.

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

If it makes you feel better, @Week still laughs at me for dropping and breaking a bong during a fantasy football draft.

Lol, I forgot that but thanks for the reminder.

 

Peace and love to all. Had an excellent night. Catching up on the last four pages was a wonderful experience at my current levels. I wish all the terrorist fist bumps, middle fingers, and upper deckers to all you crazy kids. Well, the first to @DanteGabriel and the last to @Tywin et al. - but cheers to all and to all a good night!

/Falls out of thread on ass

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Just now, Fragile Bird said:

My God, America is burning and you guys don’t even care?

We're totally beyond fucked. Planning on talking to my cousin about getting into CA. Canadia.

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6 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

My God, America is burning and you guys don’t even care?

Like I said, welcome to Murderapolis. 

ETA: So they're burning down the police station now. Glad I decided to not go biking into the area earlier. 

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2 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

My God, America is burning and you guys don’t even care?

I'm getting drunk and high while I watch an empire fall.

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25 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

I also suspect that gerrymandered majority minority districts are also going to amplify partisan divides as long as those minorities vote along reliably partisan lines.

The court took care of that 25 years ago.  There doesn't need to be a study on NC or anything else when it comes to ethnicity.  Per usual, you're just making things up.

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44 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

My God, America is burning and you guys don’t even care?

It's not that we don't care, it's that we've seen it happen before. What has happened since Ferguson? Basically nothing.  We still have a blight of police violence, we still have racism, in fact I would say it has gotten worse, and there is not sign of anything happening any time soon to make this shit better. Blacks and other minorities are being hit the hardest by the Covid crisis and all they can do is look to a government who sees it as a feature, not a bug. They have been left with no real choice. From MLK's son

Hopefully this spells change, but I doubt it.
13 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said:

Can I come?

Why would you immigrate when you would simply succeed? Cascadia now.

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13 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

A woman tried to run over protestors in Denver. 

Protests in Chicago. New York. LA. Detroit.

We are sitting on a tinderbox.

One thing I will say is that I worry that given said tinderbox, right wing nutcases are going to see this as the opportunity to start the race war they have been having wet dreams about since the end of the Civil War. We already know that they have been infiltrating protests, along with cop (supposedly the fella who kicked off the madness at the Autozone last night was a cop, or so the story goes). I love me a good riot as much as the next guy, and I think that this is justified if a bit short sighted, I just fear that this could end up being backfiring.

ETA finally we see the white man getting what he deserves in Louisville Kentucky. Giant statues of french monarchs better watch their backs

 

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2 minutes ago, GrimTuesday said:

One thing I will say is that I worry that given said tinderbox, right wing nutcases are going to see this as the opportunity to start the race war they have been having wet dreams about since the end of the Civil War. We already know that they have been infiltrating protests, along with cop (supposedly the fella who kicked off the madness at the Autozone last night was a cop, or so the story goes). I love me a good riot as much as the next guy, and I think that this is justified if a bit short sighted, I just fear that this could end up being backfiring.

Oh yeah, police are going to kill someone somewhere and that will kick shit off, and The Daily Beast was already reporting that right-wing groups have been attending the protests.

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