Police #2: Burning down the house

[BigFatCoward]

56 minutes ago, Week said:

Twitter thread of police brutality from the last couple days:

https://twitter.com/greg_doucette/status/1267459054839967746

I cant even begin to imagine what is going through their minds. What the fuck is wrong with these people? 

Every single canister of CS spray I've ever had has gone out of date. These fuckers are like teenage boys trying to cover up their BO with how often they spray. 

[Guest]

I really like how the cops on TV keep saying "If you have specific reports of police brutality, let us know, we'll investigate it." No you won't. That's kind of the point of this.

[mcbigski]

6 hours ago, Ser Reptitious said:

Uh, are you encouraging minorities to get armed and start shooting back at the police? Because in the current context that's how it sounds to me. Can you clarify?

Well shooting at the police isn't going to be productive generally, it would escalate problems in almost every instance.  But if they are going to shoot first, better if you're able to respond in kind.

[Guy Kilmore]

1 hour ago, aceluby said:

Thanks Ty, we recently moved to the outer burbs and have a whole swirl of feelings.  Fortunate that we're not anywhere near this with our little family, scared for my friends who have nowhere to go, anger at how the police and president keep throwing gas on the fire, sadness for my city and all the people in it as we watch it burn from afar, and helpless.  More than anything I feel helpless as I won't do something that will also risk my entire family.  I hope this will eventually calm and we can honestly address how awful the police have been throughout this entire ordeal, start to finish.

I am glad you are okay!

I am in a similar boat, I am at the very outer edge of this stuff.  I have been using my dollars to support and taking opportunities with family and friends to correct certain attitudes when they come up.  For Instance, I had an amazing conversation with my mom, a fox news type of person, about racism where her views felt like the moved.  I don't know how long it will last, but, even some self reflection is a good thing.

For Minneapolis/Minnesota, we are at a potential for some kind of Change, and it looks like we basically have the right kind of leadership in place to maybe push for some of the reforms that need to be pushed (except for the legislator, but we will see).

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, aceluby said:

Thanks Ty, we recently moved to the outer burbs and have a whole swirl of feelings.  Fortunate that we're not anywhere near this with our little family, scared for my friends who have nowhere to go, anger at how the police and president keep throwing gas on the fire, sadness for my city and all the people in it as we watch it burn from afar, and helpless.  More than anything I feel helpless as I won't do something that will also risk my entire family.  I hope this will eventually calm and we can honestly address how awful the police have been throughout this entire ordeal, start to finish.

Seeing the streams on FB from friends is chilling. It feels so weird living just outside of it, when you could see the city covered in smoke. I forgot you moved recently though. Odd time to buy a new house while having a kid.

Don't stress too much. You've got to be your Queen's rock. I can't even imagine what she's going through. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

37 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I cant even begin to imagine what is going through their minds. What the fuck is wrong with these people? 

Every single canister of CS spray I've ever had has gone out of date. These fuckers are like teenage boys trying to cover up their BO with how often they spray. 

Perhaps I'm stereotyping here, but from the U.S. we see images of your police, or guards, not reacting despite people taunting them to their face. Here, if you do the same thing, especially if you're not white, they've got the green light to attack you. I could be wrong, but it does feel like it's night and day. 

[Ser Reptitious]

24 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

Well shooting at the police isn't going to be productive generally, it would escalate problems in almost every instance.  But if they are going to shoot first, better if you're able to respond in kind.

Keep in mind we would be talking about visible minorities firing (back) at the police here. Given how the police are acting at the moment, I can't imagine shooting back at them will lead to anything other than them going completely berserk. Is that really going to lead to a better outcome (for the people defending themselves in this fashion) in the end? 

[Guest]

1 minute ago, Ser Reptitious said:

Keep in mind we would be talking about visible minorities firing (back) at the police here. Given how the police are acting at the moment, I can't imagine shooting back at them will lead to anything other than them going completely berserk. Is that really going to lead to a better outcome (for the people defending themselves in this fashion) in the end? 

I don't think @mcbigski was really saying that would lead to better results, and it's one of the few areas where I could see myself finding agreement with him.

I'm still generally opposed to private ownership of firearms by U.S. citizens, but I can see where he's coming from. If the police are already shooting at you, then I agree that people have the right to defend themselves against arbitrary state-sponsored violence.

Not that I want cops, or anyone for that matter, to get shot, but if more people started shooting them during no-knock raids (which are really a huge part of the problem), they hopefully would start scaling them back dramatically.

[Jace, Extat]

13 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

 

Not that I want cops, or anyone for that matter, to get shot, but if more people started shooting them during no-knock raids (which are really a huge part of the problem), they hopefully would start scaling them back dramatically.

To what point or purpose? Most people want to be alive and are not describeable in any way as soldiers. If you shoot at the police you're done. The best case scenario- absolute best case- is that you miss before spending your entire life in prison. And this is me assuming that the person in question has done nothing wrong besides having their home invaded.

[Guest]

12 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

To what point or purpose? Most people want to be alive and are not describeable in any way as soldiers. If you shoot at the police you're done. The best case scenario- absolute best case- is that you miss before spending your entire life in prison. And this is me assuming that the person in question has done nothing wrong besides having their home invaded.

I'm not disagreeing with any of that. That's essentially what happened in the Breonna Taylor case. Louisville police executed a no-knock raid, Taylor's boyfriend shot at them because he thought someone was breaking into their house, and Taylor was shot and killed, and her boyfriend arrested and charged. Charges were finally dropped against him when all this happened.

I actually believe that strict gun control would hopefully do away with the excuse police use for no-knock warrants. Don't have to worry about guns, no need for no-knock.

But that's not likely to happen. Even after all this, I'm skeptical that real reform of police will happen. And I think that people have the right to defend themselves, even against the police. I'm not even saying anything good would come out of that. But no one else is doing anything about it anyway, so I can have the pipe dream that maybe cops will consider self-preservation, if nothing else, before doing stupid shit.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Surprise, surprise White supremicist tattoos on the guy who tried to burn a Nashville Courthouse.

https://mobile.twitter.com/MiaMBloom/status/1267483497914138624

[HexMachina]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

Perhaps I'm stereotyping here, but from the U.S. we see images of your police, or guards, not reacting despite people taunting them to their face. Here, if you do the same thing, especially if you're not white, they've got the green light to attack you. I could be wrong, but it does feel like it's night and day. 

I'm pretty sure you are thinking of the bit that's often done for comedic purposes with people doing stuff in front of Queens guards and getting no response (no idea if this is actually something people do or just something used in comedy). Our police certainly react to taunts though definitely not anywhere near the way US police do. 

[Pebble thats Stubby]

4 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I'm pretty sure you are thinking of the bit that's often done for comedic purposes with people doing stuff in front of Queens guards and getting no response (no idea if this is actually something people do or just something used in comedy). Our police certainly react to taunts though definitely not anywhere near the way US police do. 

They don't seem to react when they have a TV crew with them.   ie Police Intercepters.     Tywin may have seen clips from one of these PR programs.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

16 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

I'm pretty sure you are thinking of the bit that's often done for comedic purposes with people doing stuff in front of Queens guards and getting no response (no idea if this is actually something people do or just something used in comedy). Our police certainly react to taunts though definitely not anywhere near the way US police do. 

Oh yeah, that absolutely plays a role in the perception, but from what I've seen your cops don't seem like they take the same degree of joy in "protecting" the people they are paid to serve. Certainly no force is perfect, and many are flawed, but it makes me sad to say I'd feel safer in London than Minneapolis. Greatest country in the world my ass. 

[S John]

3 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

To what point or purpose? Most people want to be alive and are not describeable in any way as soldiers. If you shoot at the police you're done. The best case scenario- absolute best case- is that you miss before spending your entire life in prison. And this is me assuming that the person in question has done nothing wrong besides having their home invaded.

Yea, it’s a good way to get shot like 72 times.  Being in the right won’t help you much if that happens.

[Maithanet]

14 minutes ago, S John said:

Yea, it’s a good way to get shot like 72 times.  Being in the right won’t help you much if that happens.

And there is of course a real chance that some of your family or your neighbors will also be shot in the ensuing crossfire.  If the police are shooting at you, there are no good options, but shooting back is probably the worst available choice. 

I understand the appeal of puffing out your chest and saying "I'm not going to tolerate the state oppressing me!" but you have to be realistic about these things.  Running away or hiding until you can find a lawyer and/or camera crew is definitely going to get you better results. 

[straits]

4 hours ago, Ser Reptitious said:

Keep in mind we would be talking about visible minorities firing (back) at the police here. Given how the police are acting at the moment, I can't imagine shooting back at them will lead to anything other than them going completely berserk. Is that really going to lead to a better outcome (for the people defending themselves in this fashion) in the end? 

Is this not the entire point of the Second Amendment? IIRC it's why the Black Panthers armed up.

[Fury Resurrected]

5 minutes ago, straits said:

Is this not the entire point of the Second Amendment? IIRC it's why the Black Panthers armed up.

Not exactly. The Black Panthers (who are here in Minneapolis with us this week By the way and we are grateful) armed to patrol their own neighborhoods themselves. And yes, that sometimes ended up meaning against the police, but their mission was community service not like a militia group. They also provided meals for school children. That’s a very different mission than having a gun for the purpose of shooting back at cops firing on you personally.

[Fury Resurrected]

As for Minneapolis, I spent from 11pm - 4am on Block watch outside. We have basically been keeping an eye out to make sure nothing gets burned that would spread to homes (the gas station is too close to two houses and there are apartments above the liquor store and coffee shop), that white supremacists are dispersed, and that if anyone needs first aid we are there.

Last night was pretty quiet. I did have to run from the national guard. Me and Young Boring Danzig stole a gas can from someone we’re pretty sure was trying to burn the gas station with it. There was a confused high kid trying to get back home but couldn’t tell us where that was so we did our best by explaining where there’s a park on the next block he’d be safe to sleep in if he couldn’t find his friends. He wandered off into the other direction. I hope he’s okay.

[DMC]

13 minutes ago, straits said:

Is this not the entire point of the Second Amendment? IIRC it's why the Black Panthers armed up.

No.  The second amendment is as arcane as the third, which is preserving the right against soldiers quartering within one's household.  Neither have much use in a state with a very large and armed police force.