US Politics: Burning Down the Country

[Fragile Bird]

1 minute ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I saw this article last night about about “Buggaloo” believers trying to start trouble because they believe it is inevitable anyway.  There is a photo of guys in Hawaiian shirts at protests on the SC Statehouse grounds that turned violent:

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/why-far-protesters-wearing-hawaiian-202343456.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9yLnNlYXJjaC55YWhvby5jb20vX3lsdD1Bd3JDMVRFcUFOTmVGVXNBWHpiUXRETUQ7X3lsdT1YM29ETVRFeVltUXpZemczQkdOdmJHOERZbVl4QkhCdmN3TXhCSFowYVdRRFFqazJOVEZmTVFSelpXTURjM0ktL1JWPTIvUkU9MTU5MDkxNTI0Mi9STz0xMC9SVT1odHRwcyUzYSUyZiUyZnVrLm5ld3MueWFob28uY29tJTJmd2h5LWZhci1wcm90ZXN0ZXJzLXdlYXJpbmctaGF3YWlpYW4tMjAyMzQzNDU2Lmh0bWwvUks9Mi9SUz1YeFpRX2JtMHhWSGx2VHBfZzJHemxfNU9iYXct&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAABsp5-8sk2JAZufHZb4vfXrhRPbGT_wOWDoLhky1S3Br-H4chSH7d4miunEZMuL2-gQEakRb9j5VaKPUAX19rido4KlH1I2Falr0JvAZjyKAN0p_REj0dMm2BPQqpOxzg6IHMS9Fx3xrxsNP5KV0D_aAU1seoksmDN1gSzmucdfM

You know, Adam, you should try to search for the same article on the internet and link it, instead of linking the article from Facebook itself. I discovered that's why there's such a ginormous link.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 minutes ago, Ormond said:

The National Security Advisor is a position appointed by the President to be his personal advisor and does NOT require Senate confirmation. So why should anyone be surprised someone appointed by Trump and solely beholden to him is spouting off idiocy?

Why do you think he likes people in acting roles?

[Fragile Bird]

2 minutes ago, Ormond said:

The National Security Advisor is a position appointed by the President to be his personal advisor and does NOT require Senate confirmation. So why should anyone be surprised someone appointed by Trump and solely beholden to him is spouting off idiocy?

I'm just thinking about what a weird string of National Security Advisers Trump has had: Michael Flynn, for 24 days, Acting Secretary Keith Kellog, for 7 days, H.R. McMaster, a real one, for 412 days, John Bolton, for 520 days (that surprised me, really?), Acting Secretary Charles Kupperman, 8 days, and now O'Brien, for 253 days already.

[DMC]

28 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Why do you think he likes people in acting roles?

The NSA has absolutely no reason to be designated as "acting."  Or the Chief of Staff.  Why he does that?  I don't know, he still thinks he's hosting the Apprentice.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, DMC said:

The NSA has absolutely no reason to be designated as "acting."  Or the Chief of Staff.  Why he does that?  I don't know, he still thinks he's hosting the Apprentice.

That's the problem. It's still just a reality T.V. show to him. 

But that's what you get with a President who is in the WWE HoF.

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

But that's what you get with a President who is in the WWE HoF.

Hey!  There's plenty of admirable people in the WWE's Hall of Fame.  Well, some.  Well, a few.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

45 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

You know, Adam, you should try to search for the same article on the internet and link it, instead of linking the article from Facebook itself. I discovered that's why there's such a ginormous link.

That’s from Safari.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

3 minutes ago, DMC said:

Hey!  There's plenty of admirable people in the WWE's Hall of Fame.  Well, some.  Well, a few.

Listen man! Ric Flair comes from our part of the world. 

But so does X-Pac, so 

[mcbigski]

9 hours ago, ThinkerX said:

I read, linked to, and quoted what seemed to be a legit news story from a legit outlet.  Something weird is going on.

 

I'm starting to wonder - just who are these 'outside agitators' causing massive damage and inciting violence?

 

They appear to come prepared - dark clothing, weapons of sorts, even gas masks.  They're organized.  They seem camera shy.

 

ANTIFA?  My understanding is that bunch lacks this degree of organization, and their violence tends to be defensively oriented.  There may be exceptions...but...

 

Black Block or whatever they're calling themselves now?  A violently inclined anarchist group, somewhat organized, that broke a bunch of windows back in the day...but are they even around anymore?  (I'd thought them mostly a west coast thing)

 

White Supremacists of one stripe or another?  Problem here is these folks tend to be gun nuts.  If they were involved in large numbers, than at least some would be toting heat - and given their extreme hatred, probably attacking minorities among the 'legitimate' protesters.  

 

I'm almost starting to wonder if they're foreign operatives of some sort....except that's utterly ludicrous.

 

Maybe Trump or somebody connected with him is sponsoring these people - a sort of corps of agent provocateurs?  Also ludicrous.  Not to mention impossible to keep under wraps, especially with a blabbermouth like Trump.  

Whoever they are, what level of force would be legal for a citizen to use to stop them when they are seen in the act of inciting a riot?  Saw the video going around facebook of the guy with a gas mask and umbrella calmly and deliberately smashing windows while protestors asked him to stop.  My first thought on that kit was antifa( maybe that's my bias).  The white supremacists these days seem to come with more of an incel/tiki-torch vibe.   If those guys, whoever they are, happened to start being on the receiving end of a vigorous counter protest then they could be unmasked and identified.  And at least get one asshole at a time off the board until a pattern emerges. 

Not sure if it's true beyond Atlanta, but the protests and gatherings there that were arranged as strictly peaceful seemed to get suborned pretty quickly.  So there may coordination at some level there, and a lot of well intentioned people getting used cynically.

If I thought that law enforcement and or the Guard could do it without shit spirally beyond that, I'd suggest they shoot on sight any white looking person who is dressed for a riot right now.  Must be some sort of clear and present danger allowance for use of force that applies here.  Whichever side guys dressed in gas masks, hoods, and all black, who go around inciting riots are on, it's not mine.  Take them out, they're assholes and using legitimate protesters with legitimate grievances as cover.

[dbergkvist]

1 minute ago, mcbigski said:

Whoever they are, what level of force would be legal for a citizen to use to stop them when they are seen in the act of inciting a riot?  Saw the video going around facebook of the guy with a gas mask and umbrella calmly and deliberately smashing windows while protestors asked him to stop.  My first thought on that kit was antifa( maybe that's my bias).

If his actions amount to a felony (as opposed to a misdemeanor), the people have the right to make a citizen's arrest. And if he resists this arrest, they have the right to use force in self defense.

This would apply equally if he was an undercover cop, but as we have seen, the legal system is corrupt and does not care about the law when cops are the ones breaking it.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

8 minutes ago, mcbigski said:

Whoever they are, what level of force would be legal for a citizen to use to stop them when they are seen in the act of inciting a riot?  Saw the video going around facebook of the guy with a gas mask and umbrella calmly and deliberately smashing windows while protestors asked him to stop.  My first thought on that kit was antifa( maybe that's my bias).  The white supremacists these days seem to come with more of an incel/tiki-torch vibe.   If those guys, whoever they are, happened to start being on the receiving end of a vigorous counter protest then they could be unmasked and identified.  And at least get one asshole at a time off the board until a pattern emerges. 

Not sure if it's true beyond Atlanta, but the protests and gatherings there that were arranged as strictly peaceful seemed to get suborned pretty quickly.  So there may coordination at some level there, and a lot of well intentioned people getting used cynically.

If I thought that law enforcement and or the Guard could do it without shit spirally beyond that, I'd suggest they shoot on sight any white looking person who is dressed for a riot right now.  Must be some sort of clear and present danger allowance for use of force that applies here.  Whichever side guys dressed in gas masks, hoods, and all black, who go around inciting riots are on, it's not mine.  Take them out, they're assholes and using legitimate protesters with legitimate grievances as cover.

I thought he looked like “black bloc” Antifa.  But it is so easy to “look” that way.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

7 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

I thought he looked like “black bloc” Antifa.  But it is so easy to “look” that way.

I cannot say for sure, but the reporting here is he seems to have been a cop. From St. Paul.

And in 2008 the St. Paul police pretty clearly started and/or intensified the riots around the RNC Convention. 

No one trusts them. 

[DMC]

19 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Listen man! Ric Flair comes from our part of the world. 

No, he really doesn't.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

9 minutes ago, DMC said:

No, he really doesn't.

He's a cake eater. Edina scum! 

And he went to the U of MN. 

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

20 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I cannot say for sure, but the reporting here is he seems to have been a cop. From St. Paul.

And in 2008 the St. Paul police pretty clearly started and/or intensified the riots around the RNC Convention. 

No one trusts them. 

[DMC]

7 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

He's a cake eater. Edina scum! 

And he went to the U of MN. 

Claiming Flair for Minnesota because of the college he went to or that we worked for Gagne is insanely stupid.  If you want me to tell you why, take it to the appropriate thread.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

21 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I cannot say for sure, but the reporting here is he seems to have been a cop. From St. Paul.

And in 2008 the St. Paul police pretty clearly started and/or intensified the riots around the RNC Convention. 

No one trusts them. 

Sorry for the double posts.  I’ve seen refutations and “unconfirmed” from Snopes on this allegation.  We need more proof.

[DMC]

5 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Sorry for the double posts.  I’ve seen refutations and “unconfirmed” from Snopes on this allegation.  We need more proof.

There were significant protests during the 2008 RNC convention.  Were they more significant than the 2004 RNC convention?  Hard to say.  Point is, it was not something like the 1968 DNC.  Or anything close to it.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

18 minutes ago, DMC said:

Claiming Flair for Minnesota because of the college he went to or that we worked for Gagne is insanely stupid.  If you want me to tell you why, take it to the appropriate thread.

He literally grew up here. Who cares if he washed out quickly from the university. 

Are you in a cranky mood or something? 

17 minutes ago, Ser Scot A Ellison said:

Sorry for the double posts.  I’ve seen refutations and “unconfirmed” from Snopes on this allegation.  We need more proof.

You're never going to get more proof. Not on 2008. But I did have friends just chilling at a park nearby and the cops rushed them. It was a pretty common thing to hear in the area. People at the protest swore it was a cop that broke the windows that sparked everything. And that's what it looked like with the white dude with the umbrella. 

And the world is starting to burn because we saw a video worse than Rodney King's. 

[DMC]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

He literally grew up here.

Ric Flair is North Carolina through and through.  I grew up in Rochester, I honestly would be happy if nobody knew that.