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StoneColdJorahMormont

Could Dany had been lying from the very start ?

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Its mainly considered she went off the rails leading to her torching KL in the final season and for most the downfall was too rushed or not enough signs to make it believable.

I also fall into the above group and at the time formed a different version of events to make it more believable.

What if Dany had never intended to be the breaker of chains, the one to break the wheel and become a good Ruler... what if all she ever wanted to do was finish what her father started and make those that turned on him suffer.

Her whole Arc was to make other believe that her intentions were good etc... but her end goal was always to burn King landing to ashes just as her father had wanted to before Tywin and the lannister army prevented him from carrying it out.

By burning KL she managed to kill all those living within the grounds that stood by and allowed it to happen, the Lannister Army that took the city from her father, Jaime that killed her father who she knew Tyrion would set free.. which is why she didnt have him killed on sight etc...

Think about The Dark Knight Rises.... Talia just wanted to fulfill her fathers work even if she didnt particularly believe in his reason for doing it, she just wanted to do it for his memory or whatever messed up reason people carry out their parents last dying wishes... even if they arent very good ones.

Thoughts on how this couldnt be a possible side choice for her going from 0-100 on the crazy scale. in the space of 2 episodes... we saw her true nature and intentions once she had reached her final battle as there was no need to pretend any longer as she didnt need any assitance at this point.

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Well entertaining tinfoil idea I guess, but it's not holding up for the same exact reason her turn wasn't as rushed and abrupt as you're accusing it of - she had been getting unstable at least since early s7, periodically going "f it let's just burn them": not very good at the whole lying thing then was she? Talia Nazgul wasn't breaking character twice a week, she kept it hidden until the end.

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Not really buying this theory - it just dosnt make much sense - if she wanted to just burn KL she had plenty of chances to do so - the whole season 7 timeline she basically could have burned KL with 0 damage taken from her armies/dragons etc.
 

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Posted (edited)
On 6/3/2020 at 10:47 AM, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

What if Dany had never intended to be the breaker of chains, the one to break the wheel and become a good Ruler... what if all she ever wanted to do was finish what her father started and make those that turned on him suffer.

Possible. Dany does this a lot. We learn that her default is violence when she cant have her way, and that the good Ruler is her having to try to resist that temptation. She convinces herself that she needs to be a supremacist Valyrian like Viserys at every turn and talks herself out of choosing a different path from that. There is a case to be made that Dany lies to herself in the books but evidence would have to be in the subtext. The phrase "deep acting" is when people try to alter their true feelings and outward expression to align with social expectations and this is what she's doing throughout much of Meereen. The whole time she tried to be a ruler with a skill in statecraft like Aegon but in rejecting that, she chooses the path of "burn your way out of problems." But she's a khaleesi not a queen and a queen not a politician. Or something. I actually think Dany is just confused.

Edited by Rose of Red Lake

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7 hours ago, bluntt said:

Not really buying this theory - it just dosnt make much sense - if she wanted to just burn KL she had plenty of chances to do so - the whole season 7 timeline she basically could have burned KL with 0 damage taken from her armies/dragons etc.
 

Yes this is true however my thinking she was waiting for the correct time to strike one where all those that wronged her father would be there.

This would include... Jaime ( who she didnt kill on sight, probably knowing Tyrion would free him) the whole Lannister army that sacked KL leading to her fathers downfall, all the people much of the elders would have been alive during roberts rebellion  all trapped behind the gates...

It was the perfect moment to torch everyone she held responsible for her father.

Now im not saying this is even a theory to what happened as i know this is just something i made up... that ive tried to tie together to match her moment of madness.

I suppose it just makes me think of season 8 fondlier if i believe this was the reason..

Thanks for reading.

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On 6/4/2020 at 11:12 PM, Pink Fat Rast said:

Well entertaining tinfoil idea I guess, but it's not holding up for the same exact reason her turn wasn't as rushed and abrupt as you're accusing it of - she had been getting unstable at least since early s7, periodically going "f it let's just burn them": not very good at the whole lying thing then was she? Talia Nazgul wasn't breaking character twice a week, she kept it hidden until the end.

This is true however Talia was only on screen for a limited time with scenes that allowed for her to keep in character... Dany was in situations that could be understandable to occasionally break... but yes i get where you are coming from.

Btw i in no way believe this is the actual thought process behind GRRM's ending... this was just to help me deal with how things unfolded in season 8... by telling myself this was always her intentions and was just waiting until she was safe to drop the act... makes much more sense to me to see who she became in the space of 2 episodes.

Yes i had seen her previous tantrums but she was usually convinced otherwise and most of those were aimed at masters/warlords or people that were morally grey.... not innocent babies in kingslanding... innocent babies whose fathers.rang the bell to surrender...

So yeah it helps a bit.

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On 6/6/2020 at 7:10 PM, Rose of Red Lake said:

Possible. Dany does this a lot. We learn that her default is violence when she cant have her way, and that the good Ruler is her having to try to resist that temptation. She convinces herself that she needs to be a supremacist Valyrian like Viserys at every turn and talks herself out of choosing a different path from that. There is a case to be made that Dany lies to herself in the books but evidence would have to be in the subtext. The phrase "deep acting" is when people try to alter their true feelings and outward expression to align with social expectations and this is what she's doing throughout much of Meereen. The whole time she tried to be a ruler with a skill in statecraft like Aegon but in rejecting that, she chooses the path of "burn your way out of problems." But she's a khaleesi not a queen and a queen not a politician. Or something. I actually think Dany is just confused.

Confused is probably a good description. I would add that she wavers and gets distracted  on a lot of stuff. The  Meereen ark is her basically being bogged down  by the whole breaking the wheel schtick. It's like a ball and chain that unnecessarily complicates her journey .Instead of pleasing everyone she ends up offending everyone around her and  then has to default into burning her way through every problem because everything she chooses to do first gets her into trouble. If it weren't for the the Sons of the Harpy trying to kick her out of Slavers Bay she would probably have stayed there forever and lost interest in going back to Westeros.

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If her whole purpose as to inherit daddy's legacy of "Burn them all" then she wouldn't have allowed Tyrion, Barristan, Jorah and Jon to restrain her when she wanted to slaughter people as much as she did.

In her mind she's not the villain doing evil things. She's doing good things and simply doesn't care how terrible her means are so long as she accomplishes something she deems as good in the end. The means justify the ends.

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I think her POV shows her caring, until action seems required. She also cares more than usually after action. She will not kill the child hostages, and treats them gently. She saves women from rape. She puts on the floppy ears and marries solely to create peace.

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