UK Politics: Statues of Limitations

[BigFatCoward]

Just now, Derfel Cadarn said:

Yeah I’ve seen maybe only two or three people without masks in my local supermarket this weekend.

I would say 90% of the people in my supermarket are without masks. 

[Derfel Cadarn]

31 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

I would say 90% of the people in my supermarket are without masks. 

I’m in Scotland; the day masks became law here practically everyone started wearing them.

[The Anti-Targ]

6 hours ago, mormont said:

The return of 'good British common sense' as UK govt policy.

In Scotland, face coverings in shops were made mandatory this week and Twitter is alive with reports of busy supermarkets with 100% compliance.

Meanwhile in England, Gove believes that people will wear masks without government guidance telling them to do so, because it's 'good manners'.

About half of people I saw on my supermarket run were displaying 'good manners' and 'common sense'. This week? Everyone.

It's almost as if government guidance has an effect.

I guess if it's half it makes the sensibility of using masks common right? Common sense is never universal though, which is why any really important public health measures should be made mandatory.

[HexMachina]

6 hours ago, mormont said:

The return of 'good British common sense' as UK govt policy.

In Scotland, face coverings in shops were made mandatory this week and Twitter is alive with reports of busy supermarkets with 100% compliance.

Meanwhile in England, Gove believes that people will wear masks without government guidance telling them to do so, because it's 'good manners'.

About half of people I saw on my supermarket run were displaying 'good manners' and 'common sense'. This week? Everyone.

It's almost as if government guidance has an effect.

Half? Well, you struck lucky! As others have said I’m lucky if I am not the only ome wearing a mask while I shop

[mormont]

Well, again, I'm in Scotland. Even before the Scottish government made masks mandatory in shops, there was a different attitude here. And that's down to not so much different rules, as different messaging.

Contrast the government messages about relaxing lockdown rules, even: in Scotland, every announcement of a relaxation was accompanied by messaging from the FM stressing that 'the virus is still around and still a danger, we can only take this step because of how well everyone has followed the rules until now, please keep taking precautions and following advice'.

Meanwhile in England, every announcement of a relaxation has been like 'LIBERTY! FREEDOM AT LAST! EVERYONE SHOULD IMMEDIATELY GO TO THE GARDEN CENTRE AND THEN THE PUB, AS IS YOUR GOD-GIVEN RIGHT AND PATRIOTIC DUTY!'

Messaging matters, is what I'm saying. And making masks mandatory sends a clear message. I'm sure things will start to slip, inevitably, but for now, it's working.

[Mosi Mynn]

We Tories must keep our word - and fix the social care crisis now

Unusual to see a Tory writing for The Guardian.  

Can Jeremy Hunt and the Tories save social care?

[BigFatCoward]

Survey of Keir Starmers leadership finds the leader he most reminds voters of is Tony Blair. I hope this is because people believe he can deliver phenomenal victories, not dubious wars. 

Apparently he is more like Cameron and May than Corbyn.

[A Horse Named Stranger]

16 hours ago, mormont said:

The return of 'good British common sense' as UK govt policy.

In Scotland, face coverings in shops were made mandatory this week and Twitter is alive with reports of busy supermarkets with 100% compliance.

Meanwhile in England, Gove believes that people will wear masks without government guidance telling them to do so, because it's 'good manners'.

About half of people I saw on my supermarket run were displaying 'good manners' and 'common sense'. This week? Everyone.

It's almost as if government guidance has an effect.

I reiterate what I said before, the Scots had used their good British common sense, to vote sane people into the local goverment, and thus are that is not run by a bunch of lack- and halfwits. Classic Studge instead of classic Dom.

40 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Apparently he is more like Cameron and May than Corbyn.

I am not like Corbyn should be his slogan for the next GE. 

[Mosi Mynn]

46 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Survey of Keir Starmers leadership finds the leader he most reminds voters of is Tony Blair. I hope this is because people believe he can deliver phenomenal victories, not dubious wars. 

Apparently he is more like Cameron and May than Corbyn.

I hope it's because he was a lawyer and is now Labour leader.

I never really thought much of or about Blair, so I'm not sure about the comparison.  Starmer seems sensible, methodical, ethical, competent, intelligent and decisive - basically, the anti-Johnson.  I like him a lot, but I'm trying not to get too giddy: it's only been a hundred days.

[Which Tyler]

4 hours ago, Mosi Mynn said:

We Tories must keep our word - and fix the social care crisis now

Unusual to see a Tory writing for The Guardian.  

Can Jeremy Hunt and the Tories save social care?

Yep - what we really need to fix the problems after 10 years of Tory government is... a Tory government

[Mosi Mynn]

1 minute ago, Which Tyler said:

Yep - what we really need to fix the problems after 10 years of Tory government is... a Tory government

Unfortunately we have at least 4 more years of them, and the dire straits of social care needs to be addressed ASAP.  

Johnson did say he wanted cross-party support on this, and Starmer eagerly agreed, so there may be some hope there.

[Liffguard]

25 minutes ago, Mosi Mynn said:

Starmer seems sensible, methodical, ethical, competent, intelligent and decisive - basically, the anti-Johnson. 

This is really the crux of my skepticism about Starmer. He seems like a lot of things, but I have no idea what he actually stands for, if anything. The most charitable interpretation I can come up with is that this is tactical, and that his plan is actually to reveal a deep well of substantive policy ideas once he's won over the public with image and PR. But I'm not sure he's earned that benefit of the doubt.  

[Mosi Mynn]

6 minutes ago, Liffguard said:

This is really the crux of my skepticism about Starmer. He seems like a lot of things, but I have no idea what he actually stands for, if anything. The most charitable interpretation I can come up with is that this is tactical, and that his plan is actually to reveal a deep well of substantive policy ideas once he's won over the public with image and PR. But I'm not sure he's earned that benefit of the doubt.  

That's a fair point.  And I think it would be naive and irresponsible for any politician to expect benefit of the doubt after the shenanigans of the past four years (minimum)!

I think I posted an article from The Guardian that said Starmer needs to actually come up with some policies now, it's not enough to just be the only grown-up in the room.

Personally I'm in no real rush.  He has to sort out the Labour Party and bring them all together, and the pandemic has meant that he has had to be restrained in his criticism of the government.  I like that he is pro-EU, and I like that he seems comfortable cooperating where he can, and calling the government to account when he needs to.  I'm sure we will see more in the coming months.

[Heartofice]

Yeah I think Starmer has done a decent job so far. Corbyn in his place would just have looked curmudgeonly and non constructive as he always did. Starmer looks like the adult in the room for now.

Time will tell though, he hasn’t had to do much yet, no actual policies. His main task has been to balance out his own party and try and quieten down the boisterous left wingers. 

[williamjm]

On 7/12/2020 at 8:55 PM, mormont said:

The return of 'good British common sense' as UK govt policy.

In Scotland, face coverings in shops were made mandatory this week and Twitter is alive with reports of busy supermarkets with 100% compliance.

Meanwhile in England, Gove believes that people will wear masks without government guidance telling them to do so, because it's 'good manners'.

About half of people I saw on my supermarket run were displaying 'good manners' and 'common sense'. This week? Everyone.

It's almost as if government guidance has an effect.

It is getting to the stage where whenever they make a policy statement such as saying masks won't be made mandatory that we can be pretty confident they'll do the opposite in a few days, since it now seems they'll be mandatory in shops from the 24th July.

[BigFatCoward]

5 hours ago, williamjm said:

It is getting to the stage where whenever they make a policy statement such as saying masks won't be made mandatory that we can be pretty confident they'll do the opposite in a few days, since it now seems they'll be mandatory in shops from the 24th July.

Can anyone give a single reason as what the benefits are of waiting 2 weeks? 

[ants]

On 7/11/2020 at 6:39 PM, Mosi Mynn said:

Keir Starmer needs a bolder vision - being the grownup in the room isn't enough

PMQs has fast become my highlight of the week - it is so entertaining to see Johnson flail about like a toddler in the face of Sir Keir Starmer's patient, calm and intelligent questions.  And then I remember which one is PM and I despair.

I don't really agree with this article.  I don't think Starmer needs to lay out any major policies yet.  Questioning the government, pointing out their fails, offering support on the good ideas - this is enough to show how competent he is.  He also has to sort the Labour Party out first.

Doing so would be absolutely idiotic.  The election isn't for another four years.  Why on earth would he fix his position now, when the world could be completely different then?  One of the huge advantages of being in opposition is that you don't have to commit to anything, and can simply point out where the government gets things wrong, is doing something immoral/hypocritical/controversial, and never be pegged down yourself (or have the pesky issue that running a billion pound empire is going to involve some government official screwing up something, somewhere, a matter of when not if).  

[ants]

On 7/11/2020 at 10:49 PM, SeanF said:

Not politics, but I do wonder what could have possessed Jonny Depp to sue the Sun for libel.  Even if he wins, it seems a classic case where the Claimant gets awarded £1.

I don't think Rush would regret doing the same and winning.  It clears his name, regardless of how much or how little he won (no idea what the damages were).  Its the reputation bit that gets reported on anyway. 

[Which Tyler]

4 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Can anyone give a single reason as what the benefits are of waiting 2 weeks? 

Gives people without a mask a chance to buy one? - mind, that benefit could also be provided by allowing a 2 week window to not fining people - or exempting shops that sell masks...

Ultimately, it's another failing of the tory's favourite "common sense" argument - not only has it failed each time they've tried it; but common sense also only really applies to common scenarios; not uncommon ones like a pandemic that virtually no-one in the country has previous experience of, and we're subjected to directly opposing opinions on what the facts actually are - partly because those facts change as "we" learn more about this particular virus.

 

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53397617

So... from the 24th of July (but not earlier) we'll have to wear a mask, in order to spend 20 minutes in a large, but confined space, to buy a pie to eat at home.
From 3rd of August, We'll be paid £10 to NOT wear a mask, in order to spend 2 hours in a small, but confined space, and buy a pie to eat there.

[BigFatCoward]

1 minute ago, Which Tyler said:

Gives people without a mask a chance to buy one? - mind, that benefit could also be provided by allowing a 2 week window to not fining people - or exempting shops that sell masks...

Ultimately, it's anoth failing of the tory's favourite "common sense" argument - not only has it failed each time they've tried it; but common sense also only really applies to common scenarios; not uncommon ones like a pandemic that virtually no-one in the country has previous experience of, and we're subjected to directly opposing opinions on what the facts actually are - partly because those facts change as "we" learn more about this particular virus.

 

The only reason I can see for the delay is so they can say 'its part of a plan', rather than 'we have been forced to change our minds yet again because everyone can see what needs doing except us'.