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Westeros coin "Silver Stags"


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I was always under the impression the "gold dragons" were obviously named such and printed for the targaryens and had been the standard for so long that Robert upon taking the throne decided to keep them. I thought he maybe decided to have the silver made for him hence "silver stag" but I just finished a re-listen to Dunk and Egg and they mention silver stags and even further back in The Rogue Prince also. So am I the only one who assumed the "Stag" in silver stag was for Baratheon?

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1 minute ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

It was probably one of Aegon's creations. Remember Orys Baratheon was his half brother and his hand. So he named the gold coins after his family and the silver after his right hand man and best friend Orys. Just my guess though.

That is a excellent guess!!! I was thinking maybe GRRM had started off with them being made for Robert and never thought to change them as it woumd be a easy thing to overlook but even if that was the case your explanation fixes it really well

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Back in 2003, when George was talking to Tom Maringer at Shire Post about replica coins, I received an email which went into George's idea that certain coinages that were circulating prior to the Conquest were co-opted by Aegon and the Targaryens and became part of the standard currency of the Seven Kingdoms. In the case of stags, they were coins used in the stormlands and became part of the currency of the Seven Kingdoms. There are also silver moons, a larger coin than a stag, originated from the Vale of Aryn.

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5 hours ago, Ran said:

Back in 2003, when George was talking to Tom Maringer at Shire Post about replica coins, I received an email which went into George's idea that certain coinages that were circulating prior to the Conquest were co-opted by Aegon and the Targaryens and became part of the standard currency of the Seven Kingdoms. In the case of stags, they were coins used in the stormlands and became part of the currency of the Seven Kingdoms. There are also silver moons, a larger coin than a stag, originated from the Vale of Aryn.

I can easily see Aegon telling each and every lord he conquered that one condition for keeping their heads on their shoulders is that "your money is now my money."

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5 hours ago, Ran said:

Back in 2003, when George was talking to Tom Maringer at Shire Post about replica coins, I received an email which went into George's idea that certain coinages that were circulating prior to the Conquest were co-opted by Aegon and the Targaryens and became part of the standard currency of the Seven Kingdoms. In the case of stags, they were coins used in the stormlands and became part of the currency of the Seven Kingdoms. There are also silver moons, a larger coin than a stag, originated from the Vale of Aryn.

That is a great way to deal with that issue. And we also have different kind of copper currency circulating - stars, groats, pennies, and the like - which could indicate that they also originated with some of the old Seven Kingdoms.

It seems that Aegon only established a new gold standard in the gold dragon - which made the Gardener gold coins, among others, obsolete, since it is specifically mentioned that Lady Olenna actually swindles those merchants she pays with old Gardener gold coins. It is just that pretty much nobody dares to confront the mother of Mace Tyrell and accuse her of a crime. If the old Gardener gold coins were still a valid currency, one would likely expect people conducting serious business to always ask whether one doing trade in gold dragons or in any of the other gold coins still in circulation.

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9 hours ago, Alyn Oakenfist said:

It was probably one of Aegon's creations. Remember Orys Baratheon was his half brother and his hand. So he named the gold coins after his family and the silver after his right hand man and best friend Orys. Just my guess though.

Or maybe since Baratheon had the closest ties to the crown, Aegon allowed them to continue to mint the stag

9 hours ago, Ran said:

There are also silver moons, a larger coin than a stag, originated from the Vale of Aryn.

I don't remember silver moons, if its larger then the stag is it worth more?

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

It seems that Aegon only established a new gold standard in the gold dragon - which made the Gardener gold coins, among others, obsolete, 

Makes sense, gold actually matters and is worth the crowns attention, as opposed to whatever the hell a half a groat is

3 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

since it is specifically mentioned that Lady Olenna actually swindles those merchants she pays with old Gardener gold coins. It is just that pretty much nobody dares to confront the mother of Mace Tyrell and accuse her of a crime. If the old Gardener gold coins were still a valid currency, one would likely expect people conducting serious business to always ask whether one doing trade in gold dragons or in any of the other gold coins still in circulation.

Yea, that's high treason

Quote

“--the Pretender. Daemon Blackfyre struck his own coinage during his rebellion.”

“It’s gold, though,” Will argued. “If it’s gold, it should be just as good as them other dragons, m’Iord.”

The Snail clouted him along the side of the head. “Cretin. Aye, it’s gold. Rebel’s gold. Traitor’s gold. It’s treasonous to own such a coin, and twice as treasonous to pass it. I’ll need to have this melted down.” He hit the man again.

Idk if Olenna pays in ancient coin simply to evade taxes or perhaps something more sinister, like to reinstate the glory of the Reach in opposition to the crown. Either way its highly illegal and probably meant to dissuade a paper trail of said transaction 

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17 minutes ago, Hugorfonics said:

I don't remember silver moons, if its larger then the stag is it worth more?

Don't think George has gotten around to using them in the books, but it's an idea he shared with us and Shire Post Mint, as well as the old GoO RPG.

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Well, Blackfyre coins seem to be a different matter. They were minted by a false king and pretender, and circulated only among his followers. Uthor Underleaf actually shows uncharacteristic thickness when he doesn't conclude that he is among traitors and rebels when his squire continues to bring him traitor gold.

The main issue with the Gardener coins are that they contain less gold than a dragon, which means anybody being a given number of those coins instead of dragons gets less gold out of the transaction - this being a medieval setting the worth of coins is not just tied to but pretty much equivalent to the weight of the gold they contain.

That is why Uthor intends to melt down the Blackfyre coins and why Dunk, in an earlier tale, demands compensation for a very worn coin and actually gets some additional coin to bolster the lack of noble metal in that coin.

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4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Well, Blackfyre coins seem to be a different matter. They were minted by a false king and pretender, and circulated only among his followers.

Its not rebel money, sure. But its not KL minted coin either.

Like, Itd be treason of course for me to use Confederate dollars, the U.S government may think I wish to reinstate rebel law. But if I used British pounds, how is that any leas treasonous?

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

The main issue with the Gardener coins are that they contain less gold than a dragon, which means anybody being a given number of those coins instead of dragons gets less gold out of the transaction

No, the main issue, at least from Cerseis perspective, is Olenna used an untraceable method of payment for god knows what. 

4 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

this being a medieval setting the worth of coins is not just tied to but pretty much equivalent to the weight of the gold they contain.

For sure, but if you hand someone a gold bar they probably wont have change for you. The logistics get confusing, who wants some thin worn and illegal hand in their register?

Plus in westeros they pretty much name their price over everything, I dont think theres a base price for anything really. Also to my understanding gold is worth incredibly more then a stag, so even a small gold thin coin is still a fortune for someone like whomever Varys pretend to be

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