(Spoilers) theory on the wall

[nikiris]

Theory....

There are ancient spells carved into the wall's foundations that white walkers and wights are unable to cross on their own. The assumption is these spells create a specific barrier for white walkers and wights. I think it's more likely the spells create a barrier for magic in general. I think white walkers and wights are sustained by a magic source in the north. They can not cross the wall because the spells carved in the foundation would cut them off from their magic source ultimately killing them. 

Evidence...

-Melisandre's magic is inexplicably more powerful at the wall.
 

-In the past dragons have balked at flying over the wall. If the spells were specific to WW's and wights they would not effect dragons.

-Creatures associated with magic like unicorns, dire wolves, and giants live in the north while having died out in the south. It's the same for people with magic abilities like skin changing and wargs. They exist in the north but not the south. The level of magic seems to be much higher in the north when compared to the south. The wall being a magic barrier would explain the discrepancy.  

Relevance....

According to legend the first white walker invasion brought a winter that lasted a generation. Ultimately it was the COTF who defeated white walkers. I believe the COTF achieved this by carving a line of spells into the ground from sea to sea. Spells that would later become the foundation of the wall. These spells created a barrier that instantly severed any north/south magic connection. This would instantly cut white walkers and wights off from their power source in the north, killing them. 

After the white walker's defeat Bran the Builder put a wall of ice on top of the spells preserving and protecting them. Since then the nights watch has continually added to wall. Fast forward thousands of years and you get the wall we have today. 

In the world of ASOIAF blood sacrifice is used for powerful magic. Blood would have been needed when the spells were first carved and continually throughout the years to maintain the magic's potency. Just like Ygritte told Jon..

"I hate this wall" she said in a low angry voice. "Can you feel how cold it is?"

"It's made of ice" Jon pointed out.

"You know nothing Jon Snow. This wall is made o' blood."

That's why there was a mountain of skulls in the three eyed ravens cave. The bones are from sacrifices made over the thousands of years since the wall's creation. 

Greenseers are the magic users and leaders of the COTF. Greenseers would have carved the initial spells into the ground and continually made the blood sacrifices needed to maintain the magic over time. Now we have the impending death of the last greenseer. The three eyed raven has wasted away for decades. As he weakened so did the magic in the wall, this is what triggered the white walker return. 

Tormund told Jon that the white walkers followed his group of wildlings as they marched to the wall. Never attacking, just nipping at their edges. The white walkers were herding the wildlings to the wall. They are planning to use the wildlings as a massive blood sacrifice that will overcome the wall's magic and bring it crashing down. 

Predictions...

If the wall comes down Bran will have to destroy the white walkers magic source in the north. This might kill Jon, depending on how he is resurrected. This may also kill the COTF, which is probably why it wasn't done originally 

Bran can save the wall by recharging it's magic with his own blood sacrifice. 

Bran can deny the white walkers their blood sacrifice by killing the wildlings himself.

[Jeeves]

It's an interesting theory.  Why the need for such an imposing physical barrier if the magic is the one keeping out the magic?

[John Suburbs]

8 hours ago, nikiris said:

Theory....

There are ancient spells carved into the wall's foundations that white walkers and wights are unable to cross on their own. The assumption is these spells create a specific barrier for white walkers and wights. I think it's more likely the spells create a barrier for magic in general. I think white walkers and wights are sustained by a magic source in the north. They can not cross the wall because the spells carved in the foundation would cut them off from their magic source ultimately killing them. 

Evidence...

-Melisandre's magic is inexplicably more powerful at the wall.
 

-In the past dragons have balked at flying over the wall. If the spells were specific to WW's and wights they would not effect dragons.

-Creatures associated with magic like unicorns, dire wolves, and giants live in the north while having died out in the south. It's the same for people with magic abilities like skin changing and wargs. They exist in the north but not the south. The level of magic seems to be much higher in the north when compared to the south. The wall being a magic barrier would explain the discrepancy.  

Relevance....

According to legend the first white walker invasion brought a winter that lasted a generation. Ultimately it was the COTF who defeated white walkers. I believe the COTF achieved this by carving a line of spells into the ground from sea to sea. Spells that would later become the foundation of the wall. These spells created a barrier that instantly severed any north/south magic connection. This would instantly cut white walkers and wights off from their power source in the north, killing them. 

After the white walker's defeat Bran the Builder put a wall of ice on top of the spells preserving and protecting them. Since then the nights watch has continually added to wall. Fast forward thousands of years and you get the wall we have today. 

In the world of ASOIAF blood sacrifice is used for powerful magic. Blood would have been needed when the spells were first carved and continually throughout the years to maintain the magic's potency. Just like Ygritte told Jon..

"I hate this wall" she said in a low angry voice. "Can you feel how cold it is?"

"It's made of ice" Jon pointed out.

"You know nothing Jon Snow. This wall is made o' blood."

That's why there was a mountain of skulls in the three eyed ravens cave. The bones are from sacrifices made over the thousands of years since the wall's creation. 

Greenseers are the magic users and leaders of the COTF. Greenseers would have carved the initial spells into the ground and continually made the blood sacrifices needed to maintain the magic over time. Now we have the impending death of the last greenseer. The three eyed raven has wasted away for decades. As he weakened so did the magic in the wall, this is what triggered the white walker return. 

Tormund told Jon that the white walkers followed his group of wildlings as they marched to the wall. Never attacking, just nipping at their edges. The white walkers were herding the wildlings to the wall. They are planning to use the wildlings as a massive blood sacrifice that will overcome the wall's magic and bring it crashing down. 

Predictions...

If the wall comes down Bran will have to destroy the white walkers magic source in the north. This might kill Jon, depending on how he is resurrected. This may also kill the COTF, which is probably why it wasn't done originally 

Bran can save the wall by recharging it's magic with his own blood sacrifice. 

Bran can deny the white walkers their blood sacrifice by killing the wildlings himself.

I like the underlying premise, that the Wall stops nothing specific but just magic in general.

Couple of things, though:

We don't know that the Wall stops White Walkers. So far, it's only worked on undead and dragons. And it would seem odd that men and/or children would establish this line of wards against ice creatures and then encase them in a giant wall of ice. The Walkers are the ones who make things like weapons and armor out of ice; it stands to reason that they can build things like homes and walls out of ice as well, especially considering that's pretty much all they have to work with where they come from.

We do see dire wolves south of the Wall. The Starks find a dead mother and five live babies. Before that, dire wolves were seen south of the Wall as recently as two hundred years ago. But this does not contradict your premise because there doesn't seem to be anything inherently magical about dire wolves.

Skinchangers and wargs (and greenseers) exist south of the Wall as well, and two of them passed under the Wall on their way to the 3EC.

[kissdbyfire]

@John Suburbs, we know of one dragon who wouldn’t fly over the Wall, so I don’t think we can be certain that this is a rule that can be applied to all dragons, all the time. 

And Jojen isn’t a greenseer, he only has green dreams. 

[Alexis-something-Rose]

9 minutes ago, kissdbyfire said:

And Jojen isn’t a greenseer, he only has green dreams. 

Bloodraven,I'm thinking. Not Jojen.

[kissdbyfire]

12 minutes ago, Alexis-something-Rose said:

Bloodraven,I'm thinking. Not Jojen.

Sure, but my impression was that JS was talking about Bran and Jojen, since he said they were on their way to meet the 3EC, and Bloodraven is the 3EC, even if many think he isn’t! 

It’s a minor nitpick anyways, we do know skinchangers can pass, we’ve seen many do so: Bran, Jon, Bloodraven, Borroq, etc 

[Annalee]

2 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

Predictions...

If the wall comes down Bran will have to destroy the white walkers magic source in the north. This might kill Jon, depending on how he is resurrected. This may also kill the COTF, which is probably why it wasn't done originally 

Bran can save the wall by recharging it's magic with his own blood sacrifice. 

Bran can deny the white walkers their blood sacrifice by killing the wildlings himself.

I love your predictions.  They will obviously have to happen when Bran has reached a reasonable level of maturity.  Right now, I do not think he is smart enough to weigh the consequences of those choices.  He would do as Jon did and choose family instead of the greater good.  He could open a passage through the wall in order to help Jon and his siblings.  That passage could allow the Others to pass.  Which means Westeros is truly screwed until somebody with better character comes along to the rescue.

[nikiris]

21 hours ago, John Suburbs said:

I like the underlying premise, that the Wall stops nothing specific but just magic in general.

Couple of things, though:

We don't know that the Wall stops White Walkers. So far, it's only worked on undead and dragons. And it would seem odd that men and/or children would establish this line of wards against ice creatures and then encase them in a giant wall of ice. The Walkers are the ones who make things like weapons and armor out of ice; it stands to reason that they can build things like homes and walls out of ice as well, especially considering that's pretty much all they have to work with where they come from.

We do see dire wolves south of the Wall. The Starks find a dead mother and five live babies. Before that, dire wolves were seen south of the Wall as recently as two hundred years ago. But this does not contradict your premise because there doesn't seem to be anything inherently magical about dire wolves.

Skinchangers and wargs (and greenseers) exist south of the Wall as well, and two of them passed under the Wall on their way to the 3EC

The wall's magic stopping white walkers is common knowledge universally accepted by every character, in every legend, and the historical record without exception. There is absolutely nothing that even remotely hints at the wall not effecting the WW's.

. .." seem odd that men and/or children would establish this line of wards against ice creatures and then encase them in a giant wall of ice..."

At ground level the wards would be exposed to weather, animals, and people, protecting the spells would be top priority. Ice is the only viable building material. Wood rots and can be burned, and stones would take  too long. As long as the wards are maintained white walkers were no threat to the wall. It doesn't matter what they can do with ice. 

..."there doesn't seem to be anything inherently magical about dire wolves."

A skin changer takes the skin of any animal , a warg is a subgroup of skin changer that can take the skin of a dog or wolf.  Direwolves have a connection to magic. 

I never said magic creatures couldn't exist south or that they never existed south. The Starks were surprised to see a dire wolf south, they thought direwolves only lived north. 
 

Bran and Jojen had dormant abilities. The 3ER partially, if not completely woke those dormant abilities. 

[kissdbyfire]

10 minutes ago, nikiris said:

A skin changer takes the skin of any animal , a warg can only take the skin of a wolf.  Direwolves have a connection to magic.

That’s not accurate. A warg is a skinchanger that bonds w/ a wolf. All wargs are skinchangers, but not all skinchangers are wargs. 

[nikiris]

My apologies, I didn't look up and quote the exact definition of a warg since it was irrelevant to the point I was making. You said a direwolf has no inherent magic capabilities, which is incorrect. A warg is a subgroup of skin changer that takes the skin of a wolf or dog 

 

[nikiris]

19 hours ago, Annalee said:

I love your predictions.  They will obviously have to happen when Bran has reached a reasonable level of maturity.  Right now, I do not think he is smart enough to weigh the consequences of those choices.  He would do as Jon did and choose family instead of the greater good.  He could open a passage through the wall in order to help Jon and his siblings.  That passage could allow the Others to pass.  Which means Westeros is truly screwed until somebody with better character comes along to the rescue.

Thanks :-) Bloodraven, leaf, and even Jojen keep holding back information, only telling Bran just enough.

[kissdbyfire]

16 minutes ago, nikiris said:

My apologies, I didn't look up and quote the exact definition of a warg since it was irrelevant to the point I was making. You said a direwolf has no inherent magic capabilities, which is incorrect. A warg is a subgroup of skin changer that takes the skin of a wolf or dog 

 

No, I didn’t.

[nikiris]

20 hours ago, kissdbyfire said:

@John Suburbs, we know of one dragon who wouldn’t fly over the Wall, so I don’t think we can be certain that this is a rule that can be applied to all dragons, all the time. 

And Jojen isn’t a greenseer, he only has green dreams. 

The dragon being 

 

On 6/19/2020 at 1:59 AM, Jeeves said:

It's an interesting theory.  Why the need for such an imposing physical barrier if the magic is the one keeping out the magic?

It didn't start out that way. Lord commander Mormont told Jon that traditionally every lord commander increased the size of the wall, for 8,000 years

[kissdbyfire]

16 minutes ago, nikiris said:

The dragon being 

I’m not sure what you mean. If you are asking which dragon wouldn’t fly over the Wall, the answer is Silverwing. 

[LynnS]

Also Coldhands couldn't cross,  Orell's Eagle was burned while skinchanged and the Wall blocks warging if your familiar is on the opposite side of the Wall.

[John Suburbs]

On 6/19/2020 at 11:16 AM, kissdbyfire said:

@John Suburbs, we know of one dragon who wouldn’t fly over the Wall, so I don’t think we can be certain that this is a rule that can be applied to all dragons, all the time. 

And Jojen isn’t a greenseer, he only has green dreams. 

True, but we also know of only one undead who could not pass through the Wall, an he only says he cannot pass, not anyone else.

Yes, one greenseer, then, and one green dreamer. But even green dreams represent a sort of magic, no?

[John Suburbs]

On 6/19/2020 at 12:45 PM, Annalee said:

I love your predictions.  They will obviously have to happen when Bran has reached a reasonable level of maturity.  Right now, I do not think he is smart enough to weigh the consequences of those choices.  He would do as Jon did and choose family instead of the greater good.  He could open a passage through the wall in order to help Jon and his siblings.  That passage could allow the Others to pass.  Which means Westeros is truly screwed until somebody with better character comes along to the rescue.

Maybe, but these are not my predictions. The OP says this.

[broken one]

On 6/21/2020 at 10:57 AM, LynnS said:

  Orell's Eagle was burned while skinchanged and the Wall blocks warging if your familiar is on the opposite side of the Wall.

I thought Melisandre cast a fire bolt at the eagle (?)

[John Suburbs]

On 6/20/2020 at 6:47 AM, nikiris said:

The wall's magic stopping white walkers is common knowledge universally accepted by every character, in every legend, and the historical record without exception. There is absolutely nothing that even remotely hints at the wall not effecting the WW's.

. .." seem odd that men and/or children would establish this line of wards against ice creatures and then encase them in a giant wall of ice..."

At ground level the wards would be exposed to weather, animals, and people, protecting the spells would be top priority. Ice is the only viable building material. Wood rots and can be burned, and stones would take  too long. As long as the wards are maintained white walkers were no threat to the wall. It doesn't matter what they can do with ice. 

..."there doesn't seem to be anything inherently magical about dire wolves."

A skin changer takes the skin of any animal , a warg is a subgroup of skin changer that can take the skin of a dog or wolf.  Direwolves have a connection to magic. 

I never said magic creatures couldn't exist south or that they never existed south. The Starks were surprised to see a dire wolf south, they thought direwolves only lived north. 
 

Bran and Jojen had dormant abilities. The 3ER partially, if not completely woke those dormant abilities. 

Well, it's also universally accepted that Jon Snow is Ned's bastard son, that there are gods of all sorts watching out for mankind, that the long summers and winters are perfectly natural, and all kinds of other things. Meanwhile, the ancient legends have tales of knights before there were knights, kings that lived for thousands of years, snows a hundred feet deep that lasted for generations . . . Martin excels at getting readers to believe one thing when the truth is the exact opposite.

Ice melts. Stone would be more difficult, but more durable. The Others are ice creatures and build things out of ice, so it only makes logical sense that they would be the ones to build a great wall of ice. No one else has demonstrated anything close to this kind of magic -- not men, not children, no one.

What is the connection between dire wolves and magic? Yes, wargs specialize in wolves. But there is nothing inherently magical about wolves like On-Eye and Stalker, so it's a leap in logic to say dire wolves are magical just because they can be warged. Dire wolves are not mythological, BTW. They were real:

https://www.britannica.com/animal/dire-wolf

They existed alongside pre-historic men.

If dire wolves existed in the south since before the Wall was built, then it stands to reason that they died out. Then suddenly, after two hundred years, a dire wolf shows up with a litter of pups that exactly matches the Stark children. Is it more feasible that this pregnant wolf went around the Wall, either through the Frostfangs or the Bay of Seals, or passed through it somehow? Winterfell is far inland, so I think it stands to reason that it passed through, but there is no way to be certain.

Bran is warging Summer on a regular basis and has even dropped into Hodor at this point, while Jojen has been having dreams since he was little. I'd hardly call that dormant.

[kissdbyfire]

57 minutes ago, John Suburbs said:

True, but we also know of only one undead who could not pass through the Wall, an he only says he cannot pass, not anyone else.

Yes, one greenseer, then, and one green dreamer. But even green dreams represent a sort of magic, no?

Agreed. It was a minor nitpick.