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King Jon snow ?!?


TheLastWolf

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There is just another one of those ambiguous hints that "R+L=J" is true.... and this time it could even hint at Jon sitting the Iron throne. 

I was on a re-read of ADWD and stumbled upon this Para that caught my eye. 

"... "Corn" the bird said, and, "King" and, "Snow, Jon snow, Jon snow." That was queer. The bird had never said his full name before, as best Jon could recall."

While the quorks of Mormont's raven might predict that Jon might become the King, I'm a bit dismayed that it would suggest that he is still a bastard. Though you never know what GRRM has in mind. 

P.S. It's my first content and I'd welcome any remarks, good or bad

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It depends on what kind of King the raven is calling Jon Snow.  If you take the words in order you have: Corn King Snow, Jon Snow.

In which case if Jon is a Corn King, that might bode fairly poorly for his ultimate fate.

 

https://thepaganandthepen.wordpress.com/2010/07/31/lammas-corn-king/#:~:text=The corn king%2C John Barleycorn,as Adonis%2C Osiris or Tammuz.

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Yes and no. Jon already is the de facto king of the free folk, but I don't think he will be king of Westeros. I sure as shit hope not, so some of that may be wishful thinking. 

The point is, he's already a king... Jon Snow, King of Winter. ;)

 

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Jon Snow will be the alpha dire wolf among the Starks.  He will be the King In The North while the long winter holds the land in its grip.  But Jon is not going to be the king of Westeros.  I am afraid the Seven Kingdoms is not going to have all its kingdoms for the remainder of the series.  The north is hell bent on independence and they will get what they want, and will deeply regret it.  But that is a long topic on its own and deserve its own section. 

We may get hints of a very strong monarch in the South like Daenerys Targaryen putting together a game plan for when the Spring comes back but we will not get to see the continent in a united form.  The title of the last volume will be A Dream of Spring.  So yeah, I think Daenerys will be dreaming and hoping for the winter to finally go away so she can rebuild Westeros into one realm under Targaryen rule. 

Jon Snow and his personality bears striking similarity to Mance Rayder.  He will be a more suitable choice to lead a tribe of wildlings.  He is absolutely not the right person to govern a kingdom.  He is a rule breaker and not one to make them.  Jon is terrible at enforcing rules equally and shows favoritism and bias.  One need look no further because he treated Mance and Janos differently when both men are under his command.  Justice will be hard to come by under Jon Snow.  But he could do well with the Wildlings where might sort of makes right.  He belongs in a people where a man who can take the girl away from another man by force is the winner.  Jon is the last person anybody should want on the Iron Throne.  His time at the wall proves that. 

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15 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Or is it gonna be the Nightking? :(

Nah, that’s silly fan fic that some readers like, but there’s no textual support for it. It’s wishful thinking, and it ain’t gonna happen. 

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4 minutes ago, TheLastWolf said:

Or is it gonna be the Nightking? :(

Possibly.  A Stark with compromised feelings abandons his duty for love.  It is possible.  He is much more likely to become the King of Winter.  The Starks are ice and they may rise again and stay strong for the duration of winter.  They will rule over a land of ice and savages until spring brings the big thaw and they die.  But fret not if you like them.  They just may get second lives in direwolf bodies.

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13 hours ago, Codeman Lambert said:

Possibly.  A Stark with compromised feelings abandons his duty for love

Well that would describe Robb's fate just as easily too. I suppose it could've been possible, but Jon's love interest there kind of died and he stuck with his duty. His little interest in Val only confirmed again, he's sticking with his duty. 

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12 hours ago, Jeeves said:

Everybody who isn't a Stark would hate it.  He did a poor job at the wall. 

I skimmed the reply at first and saw Everybody who isn't Stannis...

In light of the strong indication that the NW vows were changed and the legend of the NK coupled with the obvious need for Free Folk safety and help, I think it's quite possible that Jon did a very good job at the Wall.  Institutional customs don't outweigh the changes the NW needs to make in order to perform their true essential duty.  I wonder how radical Jon's actions will appear by end game.  

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On 6/29/2020 at 2:07 AM, Lord Lannister said:

Well that would describe Robb's fate just as easily too. I suppose it could've been possible, but Jon's love interest there kind of died and he stuck with his duty. His little interest in Val only confirmed again, he's sticking with his duty. 

I was referring to Jon's love for Arya.  It caused him to violate the rules of the Night's Watch.  He also let Mance Rayder go without punishment in order to send the man to fetch Arya.

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On 6/29/2020 at 9:51 AM, Jeeves said:

Everybody who isn't a Stark would hate it.  He did a poor job at the wall. 

I confess that I'm a Stark fanboy (to quote @Alyn Oakenfist

, but what you say is an overstatement of sorts. Jon did exceptionally well considering his age, all that he went through with the wildlings and his own sworn brothers and especially Ygritte. I still think that they should have gone into the caves as she suggested because...see the above link. But the storyline would be affected, so we could not have had that.

Jon did deeds that were both honorable and also not. But the former far exceeds the latter. He defended Castle Black with only greenboys, cripples and greybeards, while he himself was injured. His trick with Magnar and his raiders could not have been done by anyone else of the Watch at such a time. His wits and swordsmanship are really good, though not legendary. He withstood Mance's assault till Stannis arrived. 

If helping Stannis was wrong. so be it. But Stannis could've taken everything by force, so what Jon did was somewhat right. Besides Stannis did help the Watch, unlike all the other pretenders and claimants.

If you call his actions of allowing the wildlings through the Wall and saving them as poor, I suggest that you reconsider. Please keep in mind that the true enemy are the Others and each dead wildling beyond the Wall is one more wight to fight. Many of the Night's Watch seem to have forgotten this when they killed/tried to kill him, like you.

Him sending Mance/Rattleshirt/Abel to rescue fake Arya was not against his duties, as Meli had him under her power, so he was sure of his return (though not sure when). What would any of us have done then in his position? (with exceptions if any are like Stannis).

Him going to march against Ramsay was wrong. but not in entirety. Please re-read the letter from Ramsay to Jon. It disrespected all the laws of the kingdoms in what it demanded in its contents.

Quote

Your false king is dead, bastard. He and all his host were smashed in seven days of battle. I have his magic sword. Tell his red whore.

Your false king's friends are dead. Their heads upon the walls of Winterfell. Come see them, bastard. Your false king lied, and so did you. You told the world you burned the King-Beyond-the-Wall. Instead you sent him to Winterfell to steal my bride from me.

I will have my bride back. If you want Mance Rayder back, come and get him. I have him in a cage for all the north to see, proof of your lies. The cage is cold, but I have made him a warm cloak from the skins of the six whores who came with him to Winterfell.

I want my bride back. I want the false king's queen. I want his daughter and his red witch. I want this wildling princess. I want his little prince, the wildling babe. And I want my Reek. Send them to me, bastard, and I will not trouble you or your black crows. Keep them from me, and I will cut out your bastard's heart and eat it.

Ramsay Bolton,

Trueborn Lord of Winterfell.

If you truly understood how cruel and sadistic Ramsay was (as I'm sure you did), you'd agree with me.

Any other crimes or failures of Jon I might've missed???

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Jon could be a good war time king. That might be what the raven is referring to. King in deeds, not in name. His work rebuilding the Wall, prepping for war, and uniting people are good qualities. He's also not on a corruption arc because he doesnt have enough power.

There are few hints that Jon will make some crucial mistakes, though. He is warned three times, about Targaryens and dragons. I can see how it could ruin his chances of being king in the end.

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On 6/28/2020 at 11:57 AM, TheLastWolf said:

Or is it gonna be the Nightking? :(

Jon Snow will be the Night's King's Story Re-told ... and technically a king in the north. No TV BoB required, especially since Stannis will defeat the Boltons anyways in TWOW.

(Off-topic: King Stannis is technically a king in the north too)

His corpse queen will be his twin Stark sister, who is zombified with blue wight eyes and pale dead skin.

Their union will bring darkness to the world after he gives his soul to her.

It will be up to Bran Stark to stop Jon's idiotic mess with Winter (just like Brandon the Breaker (King of Winter) stopping the Night's King).

....too easy

198 replies in a freshly pinned R+L=J subtopic, re-discussing the same topic 167 million times ... BUT NOT one single mention of the other R+L. You guys are doomed constantly repeating a cycle in the wrong direction. It is much more fresh and much more fun if you come to the Dark Side of R+L .... R+L = Night's King and Corpse Queen = Darkness. But don't worry ... Winter is Coming to the rescue as you Hear it Roar with Fire & Blood! Fun!

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Maybe the raven words are a too obvious a cue. Jon is also the only surviving son of Rhaegar. Bastard or legitimate don't really matter. For the Free Folk, even the son of who you are doesn't matter. You are their king because they believe in what you say and do. And because they believe their fate will be better following who than anyone else. And they will help you, stand with you. Because your goals are their goals.

I'm convinced Jon will be their chosen king, leader. No crown and no glory. No more than Mance. Maybe more than the Free Folk will listen to Jon. Maybe no one will want anymore of the kings that led them to this disaster.

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I don't think Jon will ever rule Westeros, his true parentage won't be an issue in the Game of Thrones, only in the Long Night who's coming and the battle against the Others. To be honest, I don't believe that the Iron Throne will be in place at the end of the saga, it will be destroyed and the Seven Kingdoms will split again. 

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