China Annexing Indian Territory in Ladakh? (As though we needed something else to worry about)

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

It seems there has been significant fighting in Ladakh between Indian troops and its other nuclear armed neighbor, China.  

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/06/17/uneasy-truce-china-india-effectively-dead/?fbclid=IwAR1S6apV6T7u8wCNKg9OgQJOKLrSBJWSi4VVqxskr0jzku9NREXaynxdaLQ

From the article:

When hostilities ended, Beijing acknowledged casualties on its side, but refused to disclose the number of dead or injured. Secrecy, however, is not an option available to New Delhi. After weeks of attempting to save face by denying the extent of Chinese incursions into its territory that began in April — and repeatedly playing down the fierce brawls that erupted between the two sides in May — the Indian government admitted on Tuesday that twenty soldiers of the Indian Army, including a commanding officer, had been killed in the battle with the People’s Liberation Army the previous night. Dozens of Indian troops are said to be in Chinese captivity. 

India, imploding under the burden of social chaos and economic devastation precipitated by the coronavirus pandemic, was clearly not anticipating an outbreak of renewed Chinese aggression on its northern frontier. When Chinese troops began breaching the LAC in late April, India treated it as an inadvertent mistake of a kind that is all too common on the 2,100-mile-long un-demarcated border.

It was only after Indian attempts to de-escalate the situation were rebuffed did it realise that the mechanisms established by both sides to defuse tensions had suddenly become obsolete. India was not dealing with patrolling parties that had strayed too far. It was confronting an invading army. While India scrambled to send reinforcements, China managed to annex up to 60 square kilometres of Indian territory in Ladakh without firing a shot.

[IheartIheartTesla]

In my opinion the risk of a nuclear confrontation is quite low. I dont know what will eventually happen, but any conflict will be confined to ground and air only.

[Corvinus85]

Looks like someone is about to commit the #1 blunder in history.

[Derfel Cadarn]

2020: the year that keeps giving.

What’s happening in July - meteor strike?

[Hereward]

6 hours ago, Leap said:

I suppose the good thing about that head-to-head is that at least they probably don't seriously want to go to war. Although apparently a lot of Indian military tech is stuff they bought from China (don't know how true that is, I heard it on The Bugle). 

It's not true. I googled to check before posting, and the figure comes up of 70% of Indian imports coming from China, but if you look at the original source, the 70% figure is for Pakistan. For India, it's less than 5%, which makes sense. Indicates the importance of not relying on Google front page summaries.

[Raja]

Here's a Reuters Graphic that I found useful, with visualizations using some satellite imaging - even though I'm not 100 percent sold on everything set in it. I'm still not exactly sure what happened except the fact that 20 Indian soldiers died.

Both these countries have propaganda machines, so it's a little unclear as to what occurred - it's amusing because Modi basically ran on a National Security platform when he was elected as PM.

India can't really afford a confrontation, tbh. Our economy was tanking before Covid 19 and is now going to be much worse. Some states have managed to contain COVID 19 but the cities/ states with major outbreaks haven't slowed it down to the extent that we are seeing it in other countries. We are still nowhere near our peak and that worries me.

You would think these issues might make it likely that the BJP might lose power in a future election, but our main opposition party is going to get nowhere with the Gandhis at the the helm.

[Martell Spy]

8 hours ago, Derfel Cadarn said:

2020: the year that keeps giving.

What’s happening in July - meteor strike?

We could use a FU 2020 thread, but it's not over yet.

[Free Northman Reborn]

From a geostrategic point of view this is a much needed counter to the number one enemy of the free world - China. Recently China has become particularly belligerent,  moving hard against Hong Kong, openly threatening Australia for daring to support the pandemic inquiry, and now this hostile action against India.

China must be countered, and having the world’s second most populous country as a firm ally in this battle of civilizations is strategically important.

China’s power has to be broken one way or another or the long term future of the world will be a totalitarian, centrally controlled nightmare as more basket case countries try to follow the supposedly successful Chinese model of social and economic rule.

The US should fully support India and Australia and Hong Kong, openly and with material action, to make use of this strategic opportunity to tip the scales.

[Jace, Extat]

9 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

From a geostrategic point of view this is a much needed counter to the number one enemy of the free world - China. Recently China has become particularly belligerent,  moving hard against Hong Kong, openly threatening Australia for daring to support the pandemic inquiry, and now this hostile action against India.

China must be countered, and having the world’s second most populous country as a firm ally in this battle of civilizations is strategically important.

China’s power has to be broken one way or another or the long term future of the world will be a totalitarian, centrally controlled nightmare as more basket case countries try to follow the supposedly successful Chinese model of social and economic rule.

The US should fully support India and Australia and Hong Kong, openly and with material action, to make use of this strategic opportunity to tip the scales.

I'm doing my part!

[Gaston de Foix]

31 minutes ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

From a geostrategic point of view this is a much needed counter to the number one enemy of the free world - China. Recently China has become particularly belligerent,  moving hard against Hong Kong, openly threatening Australia for daring to support the pandemic inquiry, and now this hostile action against India.

China must be countered, and having the world’s second most populous country as a firm ally in this battle of civilizations is strategically important.

China’s power has to be broken one way or another or the long term future of the world will be a totalitarian, centrally controlled nightmare as more basket case countries try to follow the supposedly successful Chinese model of social and economic rule.

The US should fully support India and Australia and Hong Kong, openly and with material action, to make use of this strategic opportunity to tip the scales.

It is not China the country, or the Chinese people.  It is the Chinese regime.  Many Chinese do not know what is being done in their name to the Uighurs, to the people of HK etc. That reform has to come from within.  No empire based on violence and repression, no dynasty, no totalitarian regime has endured.  But it will take time and effort.  In the meantime China must be strategically contained. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

Time is a flat circle.  Until cubed.

[Free Northman Reborn]

2 minutes ago, Gaston de Foix said:

It is not China the country, or the Chinese people.  It is the Chinese regime.  Many Chinese do not know what is being done in their name to the Uighurs, to the people of HK etc. That reform has to come from within.  No empire based on violence and repression, no dynasty, no totalitarian regime has endured.  But it will take time and effort.  In the meantime China must be strategically contained. 

I am concerned that this might not be true, as much as we like to believe it. People are not as partial to freedom as we might like to believe, demonstrating willingness to give up many freedoms in exchange for security, economic gain and “social credit”.

I am worried that with the right indoctrination a Chinese type totalitarian regime might be extremely stable and even more successful than a Western type democracy. We must stop that from happening, else it could foreshadow the future of humanity, particularly as technological means of surveillance and central control become more and more capable.

So internal collapse of the Chinese system might take longer than internal collapse of the increasingly fragile looking Western democratic system.

In short, their way of life may win.

[Jace, Extat]

42 minutes ago, larrytheimp said:

Time is a flat circle.  Until cubed.

If you refuse the word of square, then you're my enemy!

[Martell Spy]

11 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

If you refuse the word of square, then you're my enemy!

Fuck you, Qbert. 

[Larry of the Lawn]

7 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said:

I am concerned that this might not be true, as much as we like to believe it. People are not as partial to freedom as we might like to believe, demonstrating willingness to give up many freedoms in exchange for security, economic gain and “social credit”.

I am worried that with the right indoctrination a Chinese type totalitarian regime might be extremely stable and even more successful than a Western type democracy. We must stop that from happening, else it could foreshadow the future of humanity, particularly as technological means of surveillance and central control become more and more capable.

So internal collapse of the Chinese system might take longer than internal collapse of the increasingly fragile looking Western democratic system.

In short, their way of life may win.

Nothing says freedom like trying to stop an entire nation from doing well.  Discourage imperialist land grabs and violence over territory and resources?  Sure.  But stop a sovereign nation from becoming "extremely stable and even more successful than a Western type democracy"?  Why?  Because freedom? 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

8 hours ago, Jace, Basilissa said:

I'm doing my part!

 

[Raja]

I give it one more page before Elon Musk emerges as our solution to this.

[Luzifer's right hand]

On 6/20/2020 at 12:52 PM, Raja said:

I give it one more page before Elon Musk emerges as our solution to this.

Raja's law: "as an online discussion grows longer, the probability someone mentioning Musk or one of his companies as the solution to a problem approaches 1" 

[williamjm]

1 hour ago, Luzifer's right hand said:

Raja's law: "as an online discussion grows longer, the probability someone mentioning Musk or one of his companies as the solution to a problem approaches 1" 

Once we're all living on Mars the boundaries back on Earth won't matter any more.

[Martell Spy]

20 minutes ago, williamjm said:

Once we're all living on Mars the boundaries back on Earth won't matter any more.

But only after Musk gets us there.