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Star Wars: The Saga Continues


Gaston de Foix

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Looks great. It is funny how Star Wars stories seem to take place in either primitive/medieval type hamlets or megalopolis. Love all the Rogue One / Mando scruffiness but Cloud City and the water world in Attack of the Clones seem like outliers in terms of clean, maintained spaces.

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42 minutes ago, Rhom said:

Not giving the sequel trilogy to Filoni/Favreau is the greatest mistake Disney has ever made.

Eh. There are awesome bits in Mandalorian, but a lot of the show (along with Rebels and Clone Wars) is entirely forgettable, and the dialog is really, really, REALLY stupid at times. 

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23 minutes ago, Kalibear said:

Eh. There are awesome bits in Mandalorian, but a lot of the show (along with Rebels and Clone Wars) is entirely forgettable, and the dialog is really, really, REALLY stupid at times. 

BUT... there is continuity that makes sense.

If you had just said "Star Wars _______________ is entirely forgettable, and the dialogue is really, really, REALLY stupid at times" and asked me to fill in the blank... TCW/Rebels/Mandalorian would not have been my first choice to put in there.  I might go with sequels first then prequels before I got to the Filoni stuff. 

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I found about 80% of TCW to be entirely forgettable. Rebels is more like 70%. 

And there is some continuity that makes sense, and a lot that is entirely batshit fucked. Sorry, why did the Mandalorians go from having a planet to always keeping their masks on and saying 'this is the way' and all of that bullshit? Why did their culture get turned into a cheap CRPG simulator?And we're just going to handwave a tracker that lets you track any creature in the universe perfectly and be okay with that? Or Jawas deciding that the most valuable thing in the universe is...some egg?

I like the show and it's fun, but again - it's not great, it certainly isn't up there with TLJ in my mind, and most of it is very forgettable. 

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39 minutes ago, Kalibear said:

I found about 80% of TCW to be entirely forgettable. Rebels is more like 70%. 

And there is some continuity that makes sense, and a lot that is entirely batshit fucked. Sorry, why did the Mandalorians go from having a planet to always keeping their masks on and saying 'this is the way' and all of that bullshit? Why did their culture get turned into a cheap CRPG simulator?And we're just going to handwave a tracker that lets you track any creature in the universe perfectly and be okay with that? Or Jawas deciding that the most valuable thing in the universe is...some egg?

I like the show and it's fun, but again - it's not great, it certainly isn't up there with TLJ in my mind, and most of it is very forgettable. 

Similar questions can be asked and similar arguments made about the sequel trilogy. But again, TCW, Rebels, and The Mandalorian have a stronger sense of continuity. 

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2 minutes ago, Corvinus85 said:

Similar questions can be asked and similar arguments made about the sequel trilogy. But again, TCW, Rebels, and The Mandalorian have a stronger sense of continuity. 

I...guess? I would not say it's a particular strength of those shows. Especially when so many eps are basically non-continunous filler that could fit in at basically any time you want.

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So what's the continuity reason for Mando not immediately bringing baby yoda to Luke?  Everyone in the galaxy knows what Luke is.  Even the absolutely terrible dogshit "backstory" to the sequels Disney made through the Aftermath shit acknowledges that.

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2 hours ago, Slurktan said:

So what's the continuity reason for Mando not immediately bringing baby yoda to Luke?  Everyone in the galaxy knows what Luke is.  Even the absolutely terrible dogshit "backstory" to the sequels Disney made through the Aftermath shit acknowledges that.

Part of what I enjoyed about the first season of Mandalorian was how well they balanced the need to tell its own story with tying into existing lore. My other half watched it with no background at all, and it never feels like you’re watching half a show with bits missing.

It really doesn’t feel right for Mando to be talking about Luke all the time and looking for him specifically. I’m not sure of the timeline but when did Luke set up his Jedi school? Mandalorian isn’t too far past RotJ, it’s possible he’s decided to keep a low profile for a while in case there’s some more Sith lurking about. Season 1 certainly implied that the pretty well travelled Mando hadn’t heard of this mysterious band of enemy sorcerers. In fact, maybe there’s a kind of PR battle that needs to be won first, if despite the emperors death, the narrative that Jedi are the bad guys is still prevalent. Immediately declaring that you’re training a new squad might not be a good look.

I randomly watched the Robot Chicken sketch yesterday with the Imperial officer being told they’ve won; “what do you mean they’ve won? They just blew up the Death Star again, they already did it once?” “Yea, but this time they killed the Emperor as well. They had to do both”. I’d be quite interested in seeing this period, did the Empire elect a new leader? Was that whole process still in place? 

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5 hours ago, Slurktan said:

So what's the continuity reason for Mando not immediately bringing baby yoda to Luke?  Everyone in the galaxy knows what Luke is.

Do they? It's probably pretty well known that the Rebels blew up a couple of Death Stars, and the Emperor was on the second one at the time, but are the names of the specific people involved that widely known? There's not much evidence of a galactic news service in the films.

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4 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I randomly watched the Robot Chicken sketch yesterday with the Imperial officer being told they’ve won; “what do you mean they’ve won? They just blew up the Death Star again, they already did it once?” “Yea, but this time they killed the Emperor as well. They had to do both”. I’d be quite interested in seeing this period, did the Empire elect a new leader? Was that whole process still in place? 

Books and video games answer some of these questions, if you have the time and money. For example, the new Squadrons game that comes next month will have its single-player story after the Battle of Endor.

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17 hours ago, Kalibear said:

I like the show and it's fun, but again - it's not great, it certainly isn't up there with TLJ in my mind, and most of it is very forgettable. 

I agree unfortunately. It helps that I erased most of the really bad stuff from TLJ but overall I'd say that the good in it is much better than the Mandolorian. That being said, with not much else to do, I'm willing to give it another season. Although I hope it significantly improves.

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3 hours ago, felice said:

Do they? It's probably pretty well known that the Rebels blew up a couple of Death Stars, and the Emperor was on the second one at the time, but are the names of the specific people involved that widely known? There's not much evidence of a galactic news service in the films.

Luke is known as being the one to blow up the first Death Star.  It's literally always been (Movies, comics, EU etc) how Vader finds out he has a son.

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Mandolorian gets bonus points for style and that is what is keeping it quite high on my list of SW shows. Even as a fan of it, I recognise that is has a few duff episodes and hasn't quite delivered on it's promise. 

Having said that, I would much rather watch the cruddiest Mando episode than put myself through TLJ again. Nothing in Mando makes me feel physically unwell and give me a headache like that movie.

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If we're generous, TLJ was basically on par with The Mandalorian, but with a bigger budget.

I dunno if I feel generous though. TLJ had a shot at taking the sequels in an interesting direction, but basically blew it by destroying everything TFA had tried to do, thus forcing RoS to start from scratch (which it failed to do properly, dismally).
What I'm getting at is that it shouldn't be forgotten that the disaster that was RoS is partly to blame on TLJ. Yeah, maybe TLJ was decent, if we're generous, but it's easier to have a decent movie in a trilogy if you basically fuck everything up and make it near impossible for the next guy to pick up the story...

The thing about The Mandalorian is that we don't really care where it's going. There's no imperative, no pressure... It can be cliché, it can be original, it can be its own thing... It's like, whatever. The characters are Filoni & Favreau's anyway, as long as its entertaining and cool no one will give a fuck.

5 minutes ago, Slurktan said:

Luke is known as being the one to blow up the first Death Star.  It's literally always been (Movies, comics, EU etc) how Vader finds out he has a son.

It's known to well-informed people, it doesn't mean the galaxy at large knows it. In fact, I would have thought that the movies (both the prequels and the OT) and fan discussions everywhere had established that for most people "Jedi" is just a form of weird religion and the force-wielders themselves are half-myth.

FFS, even when the Jedi were in full force and operating throughout the galaxy, people barely believed in them (see: Watu & Anakin).

2 minutes ago, Heartofice said:

Having said that, I would much rather watch the cruddiest Mando episode than put myself through TLJ again. Nothing in Mando makes me feel physically unwell and give me a headache like that movie.

Yeah... To me TLJ is a bit like Attack of the Clones. It's got its cool moments (/visuals), but the story is a headache.

The difference, imho, is that Revenge of the Sith is a decent movie. Yeah, I know many people don't agree, and I don't care: RotS did its job of linking the prequels to the OT, AND had great moments AND stunning visuals (and music). Attack of the Clones was meh, but at least it didn't fuck things up for the final movie of its trilogy.

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2 minutes ago, Rippounet said:

The thing about The Mandalorian is that we don't really care where it's going. There's no imperative, no pressure... It can be cliché, it can be original, it can be its own thing... It's like, whatever. The characters are Filoni & Favreau's anyway, as long as its entertaining and cool no one will give a fuck.

This is pretty true for me. I really like the characters, I love baby Yoda.. I love the way it looks, I love individual scenes, I love the setting. I could take or leave the story quite frankly, and I think that is part of the point.

If the show went for 20 seasons of just Mando and baby Yoda travelling the galaxy fixing local problems, under the loose guise of getting baby yoda to safety then I'd be more than ok with that.
 

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I don't know if Favreau wanted the Mandalorian to be a Star Wars heavyweight. It's a high-budget sci fi remake of cheesy spaghetti westerns. My dad doesn't like any sci fi or fantasy, but he does love westerns. I convinced my parents to watch the series with me, and they've been thrilled. Dad routinely makes a satisfied grunt when they hit his favorite western beat; most recently in episode 6 when the Cocky Rookie underestimates his first job on the frontier. 

It's utterly corny, and each cameo, in my opinion, is clearly an actor thinking "Okay, I'm a 60s cowboy character, only it's aliens. This is gonna be so fun."

Favreau is capable of creating modern stories with heft. I don't think he's trying that here, although I understand it's Star Wars and we're all going to debate the logic of a 'tracking fob' and Baby Yoda's bafflingly agile stump legs ad nauseum, same as I spent a lifetime bitching about the nonsensical character arcs in the movies. 

I'm quite curious if the second season keeps the characters, but abandons the simplistic western tribute vibe. Lone Gunman Recruits, Lone Gunman Saves Village, Lone Gunman Respects The Natives - perhaps they'll be like Archer and adapt to a new archetype. 

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3 hours ago, Rippounet said:

If we're generous, TLJ was basically on par with The Mandalorian, but with a bigger budget.

I dunno if I feel generous though. TLJ had a shot at taking the sequels in an interesting direction, but basically blew it by destroying everything TFA had tried to do, thus forcing RoS to start from scratch (which it failed to do properly, dismally).
What I'm getting at is that it shouldn't be forgotten that the disaster that was RoS is partly to blame on TLJ. Yeah, maybe TLJ was decent, if we're generous, but it's easier to have a decent movie in a trilogy if you basically fuck everything up and make it near impossible for the next guy to pick up the story...

The thing about The Mandalorian is that we don't really care where it's going. There's no imperative, no pressure... It can be cliché, it can be original, it can be its own thing... It's like, whatever. The characters are Filoni & Favreau's anyway, as long as its entertaining and cool no one will give a fuck.

It's known to well-informed people, it doesn't mean the galaxy at large knows it. In fact, I would have thought that the movies (both the prequels and the OT) and fan discussions everywhere had established that for most people "Jedi" is just a form of weird religion and the force-wielders themselves are half-myth.

FFS, even when the Jedi were in full force and operating throughout the galaxy, people barely believed in them (see: Watu & Anakin).

Yeah... To me TLJ is a bit like Attack of the Clones. It's got its cool moments (/visuals), but the story is a headache.

The difference, imho, is that Revenge of the Sith is a decent movie. Yeah, I know many people don't agree, and I don't care: RotS did its job of linking the prequels to the OT, AND had great moments AND stunning visuals (and music). Attack of the Clones was meh, but at least it didn't fuck things up for the final movie of its trilogy.

I always assumed that Luke would have been a galactic sized hero.  There's no way the Rebellion wouldn't have put his face on every recruiting poster across the galaxy.  The farm boy who destroyed the Empire's greatest weapon with a single perfect shot. . . who has a better story than Luke?  He's a thousand times more important than any regular Medal of Honor winner or Admiral, and easily identifiable by the public as a hero.  The Force is also very important to the people of the Rebel Alliance (although I never understood why), so the fact that he's a Jedi would probably get some publicity as well later on.

That he and Vader took down the Emperor would probably be less well known, there's no independent verification and its almost so strange as to be unbelievable.   Luke's actions would probably stay in the less publicized or possibly secret records. 

The Battle of Endor would probably go down in history as a group effort of the entire Rebel Alliance, but Luke would still be a great hero though.  They'd list him as having been a part of the commando unit that took down the shields, and was captured briefly by the evil darth vader before then escaping during the destruction of the star.  That's still an awesome story!

If it was our world they'd have mad a bunch of movies about the heroes of the Rebel Alliance.

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4 minutes ago, argonak said:

With regard to people not believing in Jedi, Watu and Anakin didn't live in the Old Republic.  But they'd still HEARD of Jedi.

But that's the thing: we're given to understand the New Republic was even weaker than the old one. Assuming the Rebellion and the Senate did decide to put forward Luke for propaganda purposes (and assuming Luke was ok with that), the info still wouldn't have spread that far.
I'm not convinced the politicians of the New Republic would have wanted to give Luke too much clout and influence. Well-informed people would bear in mind that force-wielders can quickly turn into problems.
And anyway, we do have the movies. How many students did Luke have? IIRC a dozen or two? If Luke was this galactic super-celebrity, wouldn't his Temple be about as massive as the old one, with tons of other teachers (not necessarily force-wielders, there's a bit more to being a Jedi than the Force). But it wasn't. From the movies we get the feeling Luke's school was a small affair. Not that this was what I expected, or that I like that, but that's what we got...

Also, Watu and Anakin have heard of Jedi, but I didn't get the feeling Anakin knew about Yoda beforehand, even though Yoda would have been a super-celebrity by then, given his longevity... and looks. In other words, it's one thing to know about Jedi, or to hear rumors about their achievements. Knowing their name is already something else entirely. It's a big galaxy, and communication is rather primitive in the StarWars universe.

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