Heartofice Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 6 minutes ago, DaveSumm said: I’m not sure I’d seen RotS all the way through. I don’t understand why it’s regarded as the best of the prequels ... it’s just chock full of iconic moments that had to happen, but none are executed well. The dialogue is just as bad (“my powers have doubled since we last met” / “from my point of view the Jedi are evil”), the performances much the same (maybe Ewan McGregor has relaxed into Obi Wan a little more and has more fun), and the lightsaber battles are pretty bad. Windu vs the Emperor? What the fuck? He brings three other Jedis who look like they’ve never held a saber and get slaughtered immediately, the Emperor seems to be challenging himself to pull a more ridiculous face every time he thrusts, and Windu looks like he’s out of breath the whole time. It’s really bad. I think one of the reasons I thought RotS was the best of the prequels when I saw it was basically down to the opening half hour, or that opening segment. Mainly it was because the battles were a bit less clean and more exciting, and I appreciated that there was an effort to insert some real banter between Obi Wan and Anakin.. even if it was clunky. During those parts it almost felt like a SW movie if you squint. I felt the same way for the first 15 mins of TPM though to be fair. Sometimes a first impression like that can sway you. I think it also helps that stuff actually happens in RotS, whereas the previous 2 movies feel so utterly inconsequential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 minutes ago, Heartofice said: Sometimes a first impression like that can sway you. I think it also helps that stuff actually happens in RotS, whereas the previous 2 movies feel so utterly inconsequential. They do, and I really meant it when I said that swapping Episode I and II with the Clone Wars is just an all round better prequel story. But at the same time, I and II have plots. They work as (bad) movies in their own right, whereas RotS is basically some action set pieces (saving Palpatine, then killing Greivous) and then a bunch of stuff that happens to Anakin. There’s nothing binding those things together, and I can’t really say that the film is ‘about’ any one thing other than fulfilling its role of putting pieces where they need to be for the OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 18 minutes ago, DaveSumm said: They do, and I really meant it when I said that swapping Episode I and II with the Clone Wars is just an all round better prequel story. But at the same time, I and II have plots. They work as (bad) movies in their own right, whereas RotS is basically some action set pieces (saving Palpatine, then killing Greivous) and then a bunch of stuff that happens to Anakin. There’s nothing binding those things together, and I can’t really say that the film is ‘about’ any one thing other than fulfilling its role of putting pieces where they need to be for the OT. I agree with this and maintain, as I have for a long time, that Phantom Menace is actually the best film of the three. Revenge of the Sith is more fun, but it is as you say. A series of highpoint moments tethered by character motivations that don't add up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Phantom Menace was the one I enjoyed as a teen, I walked out of the cinema having enjoyed it and the cracks + frustration with Jar-Jar only sunk in later. AotC by contrast I checked out completely at Yoda flipping around comically - it was tonally wrong for Yoda. I was then checked out for RotS thanks to that, but distinctly remember cringing and being frustrated by OBW watching the holo-recording of Anakin slaughtering the younglings with the terrible "oh no, I can't watch". I was swearing at Lucas for hiring an actor like McGregor then not even letting him act, that shit should have just been shown on his face. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 4 minutes ago, karaddin said: I was then checked out for RotS thanks to that This is why I’d never bothered with it until now (I think I’ve probably caught most of it in chunks, just never actually watched it from start to finish). My brain just fundamentally rejected the AotC Anakin as the real Anakin, so I didn’t care. Clone Wars has kinda welded Star Wars back together for me, I can embrace the PT era if not the movies themselves and enjoy it a lot more. 9 minutes ago, karaddin said: I was swearing at Lucas for hiring an actor like McGregor then not even letting him act, that shit should have just been shown on his face. I honestly think the PT might be the biggest gulf between quality of films and fame of director. How on Earth this guy has such a reputation and made something so bad is quite astonishing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 59 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said: Revenge of the Sith is more fun Really? Beyond the sequence with Obi-Wan fighting Grievous, I can't recall any point where RotS could be described as 'fun'. I recall it as being relentlessly downbeat, grim and mostly quite boring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 I’m wondering how much Lucas planned for the existence of the Clone Wars when he made RotS, I couldn’t shake the impression that without seeing CW, what does the fight with Grievous even mean? We don’t know who he is or what his significance to the war is, we’re just told that Obi Wan needs to go after him and that’ll end the war for some reason. Was this intentionally carving out a space for CW to explain? At least the kidnapping of the Emperor finishes off Dooku and provides an opportunity for the Emperor to flex his command of Anakin. But it feels like Grievous is the ‘Canto Bight’ of RotS without any backstory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 I remember at the time, after watching the behind the scenes chats with Lucas on the DVD, getting the impression that Grevious was just there cos he looked cool, and would sell toys, and Lucas had some crap in his head to explain why he exists. Maybe also Lucas had a plan to use CW to mop up the mess he had created. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 9 minutes ago, DaveSumm said: I’m wondering how much Lucas planned for the existence of the Clone Wars when he made RotS, I couldn’t shake the impression that without seeing CW, what does the fight with Grievous even mean? We don’t know who he is or what his significance to the war is, we’re just told that Obi Wan needs to go after him and that’ll end the war for some reason. Was this intentionally carving out a space for CW to explain? At least the kidnapping of the Emperor finishes off Dooku and provides an opportunity for the Emperor to flex his command of Anakin. But it feels like Grievous is the ‘Canto Bight’ of RotS without any backstory. He's a mediocre villain, there to be overcome by the hero. It's really not complicated at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 1 hour ago, Heartofice said: I remember at the time, after watching the behind the scenes chats with Lucas on the DVD, getting the impression that Grevious was just there cos he looked cool, and would sell toys, and Lucas had some crap in his head to explain why he exists. Maybe also Lucas had a plan to use CW to mop up the mess he had created. I remember in the lead up to the movie, there was a big deal made of the fact that he was an organic being that had replaced parts of his body with machines and was to sort of presage Vader's conversion. He even has the wheezing breath. There were some aspects of the character that were more sinister in the design that they never called attention to on film. The lightsabers he wields were taken from Jedi and he has Padawan braids as trophies on his belt. When you read about him like that he sounds pretty menacing... and then... he's just... not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Liffguard Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 2 hours ago, Rhom said: When you read about him like that he sounds pretty menacing... and then... he's just... not. He was super menacing in the 2D animated clone wars series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 29 minutes ago, Liffguard said: He was super menacing in the 2D animated clone wars series. But then everything is awesome in that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheLastWolf Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 Whoa whoa whoa... Rogue one was the most realistic and greatest Star Wars film IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 10 hours ago, karaddin said: AotC by contrast I checked out completely at Yoda flipping around comically - it was tonally wrong for Yoda. Yes. Yoda should have been beyond even using a lightsaber. He came out to face Dooku and everyone was like "ok he's about to show us what a real Jedi Master is" and then nope we got that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WarGalley Posted October 16, 2020 Share Posted October 16, 2020 34 minutes ago, RumHam said: Yes. Yoda should have been beyond even using a lightsaber. He came out to face Dooku and everyone was like "ok he's about to show us what a real Jedi Master is" and then nope we got that. Yeah that was the exact same criticism my die hard Star Wars fan friend had when he first watched that scene when the movie was released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostlydragon Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 On 10/16/2020 at 3:16 PM, Liffguard said: He was super menacing in the 2D animated clone wars series. As much as I'm enjoying the cgi clone wars series that I've just started watching, that general grievous has nothing on the 2d series. 2d series grievous is how I wish he was in all of his appearances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stannis Eats No Peaches Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 On 10/16/2020 at 4:58 PM, TheLastWolf said: Whoa whoa whoa... Rogue one was the most realistic and greatest Star Wars film IMO. Better than the OT? Rogue One is OK, it’s got some excellent moments, but it doesn’t have much character. For me it was a missed opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 I love the direction Rogue One went, I like that it was grittier and dirtier and felt more lived in than the glossy JJ garbage and Lucas prequels. It was the kind of SW movie I wanted to watch more of. Having said that, I have never wanted to especially rewatch it, it doesn't have that engaging a story, its main characters aren't all that memorable. But if it was a proving ground for something like the Mandalorian then I have to appreciate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Eh... I'm still just bitter about the cancellation of Star Wars 1313 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted October 21, 2020 Share Posted October 21, 2020 Apparently the Cassian Andor show will start filming at the beginning of November. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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