Where did Dany's dragons come from ?

[TheLastWolf]

Spoiler

Not for those who have not read F&B

Those who've read Fire & Blood might remember Elissa Farman who stole a clutch of 3 dragon eggs to finance the building of her ambitious ship, Sun Chaser. She set sail to find the mysterious continent on the other side of the world, beyond the Sunset sea and also to discover a passage east.... through the west. And it seems that she had even found it, as Sun Chaser was sighted by the Sea Snake Corlys Velaryon at Asshai during one of his famous voyages east. There are also a few theories about Lady Farman being Quaithe, but that's a story for  another day.

Though the King on the Iron throne, Jaeherys I, ignored the possession of the 3 eggs in the hands of the Sealord of Braavos who helped her build the ships for the eggs, the threat of Fire and Blood remained if stories of certain "fire breathing chickens" reached Westeros. Obviously the 3 eggs turned to stone lacking a favourable environment for them to hatch.

But the question is, are they the 3 that Illyrio gifts to Daenerys for her wedding to Khal Drogo? If so, how did it end up with our fat cheese monger in Pentos? If GRRM decides to write about the various ways the eggs changed hands, a book might not suffice. But a small reference somewhere would be enough for me. How 'bout you fellas?

P. S. I might have missed some other theories about the origins of the 3 dragon eggs, if so please enlighten me. 

[U. B. Cool]

If, if they are the same eggs, they came by way of the Sealord.  The Sealord wanted a return of Targaryen rule.  He was a secret Targaryen friend.  However, the eggs had already turned to stone.  I am guessing, the Sealord simply wanted to return them to their rightful owner, Princess Daenerys Targaryen.  He never expected them to hatch.  He could not do this openly, not without setting off alarms in King's Landing.  He had to keep the appearance of being friendly to the Baratheons.  He gave them to Mopatis with instructions to give them to Princess Daenerys because they are hers.  

[TheLastWolf]

15 hours ago, U. B. Cool said:

If, if they are the same eggs, they came by way of the Sealord.  The Sealord wanted a return of Targaryen rule.  He was a secret Targaryen friend.  However, the eggs had already turned to stone.  I am guessing, the Sealord simply wanted to return them to their rightful owner, Princess Daenerys Targaryen.  He never expected them to hatch.  He could not do this openly, not without setting off alarms in King's Landing.  He had to keep the appearance of being friendly to the Baratheons.  He gave them to Mopatis with instructions to give them to Princess Daenerys because they are hers.  

But that Sealord ruled nearly two centuries ago, and what could the present one hope to gain from this? Moreover from the chapters with Arya we come to know that the current Sealord is also dying. 

[Megorova]

Those three eggs belonged to the latest Sealord of Braavos, either he was bloodrelated to the Sealord who ruled in 49-54, and he inherited them, or he got them thru some other means. The latest Sealord, Ferrego Antaryon, is the one who gave the title of the First Sword of Braavos to Syrio Forel. Sealords are chosen for life. The current Sealord is old and dying. So, he's the same Sealord who ruled 20-30 years ago, thus this is also about him:

ADWD, Tyrion VIII "It was Father's idea to do the tilts. He even trained the first pig, but by then he was too sick to ride her, so Oppo took his place. I always rode the dog. We performed for the Sealord of Braavos once, and he laughed so hard that afterward he gave each of us a … a grand gift."

The Sealord gave a "grand gift"/a dragon's egg to each of them - Penny, Oppo, Hop-Bean - three dwarfs, three eggs. Those dwarfs were mummers, and Varys used to be a mummer in Essos. So Illyrio/Varys got those eggs from Hop-Bean and his children, who got them from Ferrego Antaryon, who got them from their previous owners, who got them from the Sealord, who got them from Alyssa Farman, who stole them from Targaryens.

[Anthony Appleyard]

It seems that those 3 eggs were stolen from the hatcheries on Dragonstone in Jaehaerys I's reign. https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dreamfyre says that:

* Before 43 AD: the dragon Dreamfyre laid two clutches of eggs.

* In 49-50 AC, Dreamfyre laid a third clutch of 3 eggs at Fair Isle, but they soon hatched and thus are not the eggs stolen by Elissa Farman.

*In 54 AC, Rhaena discovered that Elissa Farman, had stolen three dragon eggs from the Dragonstone hatcheries and fled to Pentos.

As to whether Elissa Farman's 3 eggs are Daenerys's 3 eggs, see Megorova's message above.

Are there any dragon eggs where is it known BOTH who laid it AND who hatched from it? To what extent were the Dragonkeepers able to keep track of  what the dragons were doing, and thus to keep track of maternity and paternity of their eggs?

At any rate, the biological mother of Dany's 3 eggs was long dead when they hatched in Khal Drogo's funeral pyre, and that is why their 3 hatchlings imprinted on Dany as their mother. That is likely added to her "claiming" Drogon in the usual way.

 

[TheLastWolf]

3 hours ago, Anthony Appleyard said:

It seems that those 3 eggs were stolen from the hatcheries on Dragonstone in Jaehaerys I's reign. https://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Dreamfyre says that:

* Before 43 AD: the dragon Dreamfyre laid two clutches of eggs.

* In 49-50 AC, Dreamfyre laid a third clutch of 3 eggs at Fair Isle, but they soon hatched and thus are not the eggs stolen by Elissa Farman.

*In 54 AC, Rhaena discovered that Elissa Farman, had stolen three dragon eggs from the Dragonstone hatcheries and fled to Pentos.

As to whether Elissa Farman's 3 eggs are Daenerys's 3 eggs, see Megorova's message above.

Are there any dragon eggs where is it known BOTH who laid it AND who hatched from it? To what extent were the Dragonkeepers able to keep track of  what the dragons were doing, and thus to keep track of maternity and paternity of their eggs?

At any rate, the biological mother of Dany's 3 eggs was long dead when they hatched in Khal Drogo's funeral pyre, and that is why their 3 hatchlings imprinted on Dany as their mother. That is likely added to her "claiming" Drogon in the usual way.

 

I think the sex of dragons being as changeable as a flame must be true(Remember Septon Barth?) as there are not many references to the parentage of great dragons like Balerion or Vhagar. Otherwise it would be called Balerion, offspring of say, the great Karaxes and beautiful Stormfyre or something. These are not Balerion's parents, I'm just giving names for example. 

 

[Megorova]

I think that maybe the mother of Dany's dragons was Vhagar. GRRM nearly never gave specific dates in ASOIAF, which is not the case with Vhagar. It is known that she died aged 181 years old on 22nd day of 5th month of 130 AC. Even Aegon the Conqueror's date of death isn't known, though Vhagar's date of death is known. And this dragon had the most interesting history amongst other Targaryen dragons. She lighted Aegon's funeral pyre when he died, she helped Visenya to conquer the Vale of Arryn without bloodshed by giving a ride to little Prince Arryn, she had 4 riders (more than any other dragon, aside of Balerion, who also had 4), even the way she died was spectacular. And her coloration isn't known, which is very suspicious. Probably her coloring was a mix of black, red, green, bronze, white and gold - coloring of Dany's dragons. Or, if to conceive a dragon egg what is needed is mommy and daddy, then, most likely, the mommy was Vhagar and the daddy was Balerion. So Drogon is colored red and black like his daddy, while Rhaegal and Viserion are colored like their mommy Vhagar, thus Vhagar, probably, was green-white with bronze horns and golden flame, or something like that.

[Anthony Appleyard]

A Dance with Dragons, chapter Daenerys IX, when Daenerys claims Drogon and rides him to escape from Meereen, shows something about the metabolism of dragons. Someone throws a spear into Drogon. When Dany pulls the spear out, the spear's head is shown to be half-melted. It seems that living dragon flesh can emit foundry-like heat while remaining as living flesh functioning as part of the dragon.

It seems that a living tradition of knowing how to tame and ride a dragon, had come down continuously from Aegon I's ancestors, but had been broken when the last dragons died in the Dance of the Dragons and then the last dragon-rider died; and much later, Dany had to learn from scratch by trial-and-error and odd bits of information passed on in old stories or written.

 

[TheLastWolf]

On 6/22/2020 at 9:12 PM, Anthony Appleyard said:

A Dance with Dragons, chapter Daenerys IX, when Daenerys claims Drogon and rides him to escape from Meereen, shows something about the metabolism of dragons. Someone throws a spear into Drogon. When Dany pulls the spear out, the spear's head is shown to be half-melted. It seems that living dragon flesh can emit foundry-like heat while remaining as living flesh functioning as part of the dragon.

It seems that a living tradition of knowing how to tame and ride a dragon, had come down continuously from Aegon I's ancestors, but had been broken when the last dragons died in the Dance of the Dragons and then the last dragon-rider died; and much later, Dany had to learn from scratch by trial-and-error and odd bits of information passed on in old stories or written.

 

What about the spells, sorcery etc? @Anthony Appleyard

[TheLastWolf]

Yo @Megorova

What do you think about Drogon being the dragon from Bloodraven’s Butterwell dragon egg? I know that it wasn't red on black like drogon but black on red. But it is a possible error. Intentionally too I think. Narrative/POV error.!? That explains his difference with the other two. Factors like him growing outside while the others were chained came later. Even at first he was different. That said, I like your Penny Sealord Illyrio idea. 

[Megorova]

12 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

What do you think about Drogon being the dragon from Bloodraven’s Butterwell dragon egg?

I thought so too at first, before I have read what Penny said.

Though, the coloring was different. I thought at first that maybe dragon eggs, if they are very old, can slightly change their colors over time. And Butterwell's egg's coloring wasn't that much different from Drogo's egg's coloring, though in case if Drogon's egg was one stolen by dwarfs and delivered to Bloodraven, then how did Illyrio got it, and from where did he took the other two?

So, the parts of this theory didn't matched, and I established that this theory is wrong. And later I noticed that part with Penny, and those grand gifts, and it looks like an obvious parallel to what happened in The Mystery Knight - there the dragon egg was stolen by mummer-dwarfs and returned to Targaryens, and in ASOIAF Dany's three dragon eggs were given as a reward to mummer-dwarfs from whom those eggs were later given to a Targaryen. So, that's what happened, most likely.

[Ellaena]

We will probably never find out. The eggs stolen by Ellisa Farman are a fun bit of trivia that GRRM has thrown at us but knowing him he won't reveal where Dany's eggs come from. At the end of the day they could be from Asshai, it doesn't matter. It's not the eggs that are special (although rare at this point), it's Daenerys. 

[James West]

The dwarfs could buy their own tropical island paradise if they had three dragon eggs.  The dragons needed a fresh start.  Which is why the eggs had to come from Asshai.  But I have started to like them being the same eggs that were stolen by Elissa Farman.  She is Quaithe. 

[Lost Melnibonean]

On 12/12/2020 at 4:43 PM, James West said:

The dwarfs could buy their own tropical island paradise if they had three dragon eggs.  The dragons needed a fresh start.  Which is why the eggs had to come from Asshai.  But I have started to like them being the same eggs that were stolen by Elissa Farman. 

I think the George has been developing the backstory for the eggs since before Game was published. 

[Daeron the Daring]

On 6/21/2020 at 9:22 PM, Megorova said:

And her coloration isn't known, which is very suspicious. Probably her coloring was a mix of black, red, green, bronze, white and gold - coloring of Dany's dragons. Or, if to conceive a dragon egg what is needed is mommy and daddy, then, most likely, the mommy was Vhagar and the daddy was Balerion. So Drogon is colored red and black like his daddy, while Rhaegal and Viserion are colored like their mommy Vhagar, thus Vhagar, probably, was green-white with bronze horns and golden flame, or something like that.

Vhagar's color is known. There is an image of her in TWOIAF, and that illustration is canon. Vhagar likely had a lightgreyish green color, with some kind of muddy yellow on her wings.

Her body likely was like this: https://pin.it/6foRS2P

[Old God's Toilet]

In all likelihood George probably just retconned the origin of the eggs after the fact

[Jaehaerys Tyrell]

I know the implication is that Elissa used the dragon eggs to pay for Sunchaser, but I do wonder if there’s any way she took the eggs to Asshai - perhaps she gave the Sealord fake eggs, or paid him by some other means. 
 

Doesn’t Bran see dragons stiring in Asshai? I’m not sure how literally the fandom interprets his visions.

Regardless of the means, I like the connection of Daenerys’s dragons being descended from the original Targaryen dragons, but I have been told I’m too obsessed with bloodlines lol