Where are Dark sister and Blackfyre?

[zandru]

4 hours ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

Arya is too small to make proper use of that sword.  Meera too is small but she is pretty strong.

Now wait just a minute! Dark Sister was always a woman's sword; it was carried by Rhaenys Targaryen. Arya is currently 11, maybe 12, and both strong and athletic, practiced in the water dance form of swordsmanship. Meera, I agree, is also strong, athletic and great with the net and trident. She's probably pushing 20 by now. Either one of them could handle Dark Sister, if not now, then in a few years.

Sure, Barristan, too would be great with Dark Sister. The man is a mighty warrior with just a simple stick.

[Lucia]

Blackfyre is likely with the Golden Company and will be given to Aegon/Young Griff to give him legitimacy in Westeros.

I believe that GRRM confirmed that Bloodraven took Dark Sister to the Wall. If so, the sword is probably in the cave.

[TheLastWolf]

12 hours ago, Megorova said:

Jenny of Oldstones (daughter of the Ghost of High Heart, whose real name is Rohanna Webber-Lannister, the Red Widow), and stole Blackfyre from dying Aegon/Duncan. Varys is Jenny's son, so he's a grandson of the Red Widow, that's why his nickname is the Spider.

If the Ghost of High heart is not a Child of the forest (her appearance suggests so) how can she have so many prophetic visions and claim to be a thousand years old? 

[Only 89 selfies today]

15 hours ago, zandru said:

I'd guess that Dark Sister is somewhere in the network of caverns with Bryndan Rivers (aka Bloodraven, aka the three-eyed crow). Yet this is not going to do any good for Bran Stark, and the idea that he ventures forth in Hodor's flesh to wield it for the War Against the Others doesn't sound right. If Dark Sister is to get out into the world again, perhaps it would by via Meera Reed, or some modern-day hero going to the cave. Jon Snow, if not dead, already is armed with Valyrian steel, so it's probably not him. I'm betting on Dolorous Edd Tollet.

Blackfyre is most likely in Essos, and why should it not be with the Golden Company? If the Griff family had it, they'd show it to old Harry Strickland to prove "Aegon's" bona fides, so likely it's a hidden treasure of the Golden Company, not to be revealed until their triumphant return to Westeros with their legitimate Targaryen (aka Blackfyre) king. On the other hand, we've seen no evidence that they've done that yet, in spite or reconquering Storm's End. What could they be waiting for?

Maybe Euron Greyjoy captured Blackfyre, as a sweet accessory for his Valyrian steel armor.

 

10 hours ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

Aegon or if you prefer Griffin, will have Blackfyre.  That is his trump card.  Swords can be faked because VS can be reshaped but I think he will have the real deal.  The sword names are clues.  I don't have anything to support this theory.  It is just a hunch.  Meera will get her hands on Dark Sister.  At least for a short while.  It will be tremendously useful to her.  Let's be real, Dany does not need Dark Sister because she has her dragons.  Arya is too small to make proper use of that sword.  Meera too is small but she is pretty strong.  Besides, if Dany were to own a sword, it will be called Light Sister or something like that.  Jon already has Longclaw.  The one who really could use D/S and use it to its full potential is Barristan.  

 

6 hours ago, zandru said:

Now wait just a minute! Dark Sister was always a woman's sword; it was carried by Rhaenys Targaryen. Arya is currently 11, maybe 12, and both strong and athletic, practiced in the water dance form of swordsmanship. Meera, I agree, is also strong, athletic and great with the net and trident. She's probably pushing 20 by now. Either one of them could handle Dark Sister, if not now, then in a few years.

Sure, Barristan, too would be great with Dark Sister. The man is a mighty warrior with just a simple stick.

Bloodraven was sent to the Wall for punishment.  A person would not normally be allowed to keep the family's ancestral sword under those circumstances.  Then again, his was a special case.  Dude even got an escort to serve his sentence with him.  It is possible.  

Rhaenys was the typical athletic Targaryen.  I will bet she was taller and larger than these three girls.  Still, it is more appropriate for people of smaller frame to use a lighter blade.  A rapier perhaps.  Dark Sister is not that important to the plot though, in my opinion.  And would anybody alive even recognize it.  It is not like the Japanese katana where the patterns of each sword has been recorded in photographs and can thus be authenticated.  

And if Daenerys were to get a blade, yes, it will be called something like Lightbringer.  Sunblade.  Winterkiller.  Lightmaiden.  Something that signifies her role.

[M.Alhazred]

I think he will have a fake Blackfyre the real sword has been lost and Bloodraven has Darksister.

[zandru]

4 hours ago, Only 89 selfies today said:

And if Daenerys were to get a blade, yes, it will be called something like Lightbringer.  Sunblade.  Winterkiller.  Lightmaiden.  Something that signifies her role.

Okay, I'm not getting this insistence that Daenerys conform to the pattern of Rh'llor-naming which Melisandre insists on. Dany is a Dragon. She's grown up on Targaryen lore. She even knows relatively little about Westeros, the "Last Hero", and Tales from North of the Wall. Heck, she barely knows there's a Wall.

I don't think Dany will ever need a sword. She's done well with sworn swords. And arraks. But if she were to name a blade, probably for someone else's use, it might be on the order of "Dracarys".

Sorry for this digression.

[Daemon The Black Dragon]

11 hours ago, zandru said:

Now wait just a minute! Dark Sister was always a woman's sword; it was carried by Rhaenys Targaryen. Arya is currently 11, maybe 12, and both strong and athletic, practiced in the water dance form of swordsmanship. Meera, I agree, is also strong, athletic and great with the net and trident. She's probably pushing 20 by now. Either one of them could handle Dark Sister, if not now, then in a few years.

Sure, Barristan, too would be great with Dark Sister. The man is a mighty warrior with just a simple stick.

How was Dark Sister always a woman's sword? 

[Megorova]

6 hours ago, TheLastWolf said:

If the Ghost of High heart is not a Child of the forest (her appearance suggests so) how can she have so many prophetic visions and claim to be a thousand years old? 

Did she herself ever said that she is the Child of the forest, or was it merely what Jenny claimed? She has prophetic visions because she's a blood-witch, she made sacrifices to the Lord of the Seven Hells/R'hllor, and thru those sacrifices became a powerful sorceress, same as Larra Rogare/Serenei of Lys (same person), and Shiera Seastar.

"My hair comes out in handfuls and no one has kissed me for a thousand years. It is hard to be so old." - Wasn't it merely a metaphor? Like this -> "Suddenly Arya remembered the morning she had thrown the orange in Sansa's face and gotten juice all over her stupid ivory silk gown. There had been some southron lordling at the tourney, her sister's stupid friend Jeyne was in love with him. He had a lightning bolt on his shield and her father had sent him out to behead the Hound's brother. It seemed a thousand years ago now, something that had happened to a different person in a different life . . . to Arya Stark the Hand's daughter, not Arry the orphan boy."

[TheLastWolf]

4 minutes ago, Megorova said:

Did she herself ever said that she is the Child of the forest, or was it merely what Jenny claimed? She has prophetic visions because she's a blood-witch, she made sacrifices to the Lord of the Seven Hells/R'hllor, and thru those sacrifices became a powerful sorceress, same as Larra Rogare/Serenei of Lys (same person), and Shiera Seastar.

"My hair comes out in handfuls and no one has kissed me for a thousand years. It is hard to be so old." - Wasn't it merely a metaphor? Like this -> "Suddenly Arya remembered the morning she had thrown the orange in Sansa's face and gotten juice all over her stupid ivory silk gown. There had been some southron lordling at the tourney, her sister's stupid friend Jeyne was in love with him. He had a lightning bolt on his shield and her father had sent him out to behead the Hound's brother. It seemed a thousand years ago now, something that had happened to a different person in a different life . . . to Arya Stark the Hand's daughter, not Arry the orphan boy."

Her being dwarfish, her catslit eyes(blood-red like only those greenseer CoTF) her visions, Jenny's claim and her own claim of age are too coincidental to not be a CoTF. 

[zandru]

Just noting that "a thousand" is consistently used in Westeros to mean "a lot". Winterfell is always "a thousand leagues away", as is Riverrun, no matter where you are. Arya's past life as daughter of the Hand is "a thousand years ago", much like pre-COVID times are now, and the length of time since the Ghost of High Hill claims to have been kissed. I would not take it literally.

Just another unwelcome note: GRRM uses a thousand fewer "fantasy elements" than any other fantasy writer. Most things in ASOIAF have simple human and physical descriptions. There ain't a lot of magic; note how even Melisandre uses a thousand cheap conjurer's tricks.

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

1 hour ago, Daemon The Black Dragon said:

How was Dark Sister always a woman's sword? 

It wasn't. young Maegor, Baelon the brave,  Dragonknight, Daemon T., Bloodraven and if im not mistaken Jaeharys the old king wielded it as well in fact visenya is the only female to my knowledge to wield dark sister. 

But his point was I think the sword is described as a bit slender thus capable of being weilded by other females. I think its roughly longclaws height but i could be wrong so she will have to get stronger.

Id love arya to get dark sister from bran and meera personally 

[Megorova]

Maybe Targaryens sent Dark Sister away with Bloodraven to The Wall, because with that sword he executed Aenys Blackfyre. Thus it was already a second time when that sword was used for kinslaying. Daemon killed his nephew Aemond with this sword. Queen Visenya cut Aegon's cheek with Dark Sister. Daemon once said to Corlys Velaryon "Dark Sister was made for nobler tasks than slaughtering sheep. She has a thirst for blood." Aegon's blood, Aemond's and Aenys' - three times it was used to harm/kill a person who was bloodrelated to the sword's bearer, so maybe the sword is cursed/possessed with something that craves Targaryen/dragonseed blood. Thus, they (Egg and Co) were glad to get rid of it. Furthermore, if at that time they had Blackfyre in their possession, then they didn't needed to keep Dark Sister.

[Curled Finger]

18 hours ago, Prince Rhaego's Soul said:

Aegon or if you prefer Griffin, will have Blackfyre.  That is his trump card.  Swords can be faked because VS can be reshaped but I think he will have the real deal.  The sword names are clues.  I don't have anything to support this theory.  It is just a hunch.  Meera will get her hands on Dark Sister.  At least for a short while.  It will be tremendously useful to her.  Let's be real, Dany does not need Dark Sister because she has her dragons.  Arya is too small to make proper use of that sword.  Meera too is small but she is pretty strong.  Besides, if Dany were to own a sword, it will be called Light Sister or something like that.  Jon already has Longclaw.  The one who really could use D/S and use it to its full potential is Barristan.  

It's clear you've given this some thought and I like the way you process the information.   You are so right that Dany is the last person on Planetos who actually needs a magical sword.  Meera is a likely candidate for bringing Dark Sister back to the fore of the story, but so are (is?) Brandor.  (A little combination for the Knight Bran wants to be).   Though I agree that Arya may in fact be too small to wield any full size sword effectively, we don't actually know how long or thick Dark Sister is.  It is a long sword and that's all we have. We only know that the pommel was fashioned for a woman's hand.  While that is no guarantee that a woman or girl will actually use this weapon it may be a hint.  The Mercy chapter leads me to believe that Arya is at least taller, if not fully filled out.  Sansa's height is often mentioned so it's not a stretch to assume Arya may be as tall as her sister.   VS is light and that may offset the potential awkwardness of length.  Brienne and Jon both acknowledge their respective swords' ability to move independently of the wielder's will.   This could be huge, possibly making so many assumptions null and void.   If these swords have a sort of sentience, the wielder's physical ability may be less important.   But, as you illustrated in the bold above, it's important to take the hero's physical traits into consideration when matching swords to heroes.   Arya would look as silly with Heartsbane as Sandor might with Widows Wail.   

I have a list of 28 potential Heroes for 12 magical swords.   Barristan Selmy has ALWAYS been on that list and by all rights should be in that final stand against The Others.   As time goes by and events in Mereen become clearer I am not so sure he will survive to see that last stand.   But you are so right he could totally make excellent use of any VS sword.   Right on.  

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

It wasn't. young Maegor, Baelon the brave,  Dragonknight, Daemon T., Bloodraven and if im not mistaken Jaeharys the old king wielded it as well in fact visenya is the only female to my knowledge to wield dark sister. 

But his point was I think the sword is described as a bit slender thus capable of being weilded by other females. I think its roughly longclaws height but i could be wrong so she will have to get stronger.

Id love arya to get dark sister from bran and meera personally 

How utterly BAD ASS would a thing (Dark Sister) have to be to have belonged to fricken Daemon Targaryan, The Rogue Prince?  I don't have an absolutely clear pulse on who will get this sword, but the magic and ruthlessness associated with DS is undeniable by virtue of those who have already wielded it.    I ask you, Brother, can you identify a character in current times more magical or brutal than Lady Arya Stark?   

[Curled Finger]

12 hours ago, Lucia said:

Blackfyre is likely with the Golden Company and will be given to Aegon/Young Griff to give him legitimacy in Westeros.

I believe that GRRM confirmed that Bloodraven took Dark Sister to the Wall. If so, the sword is probably in the cave.

First post!  You picked a great subject to chime in on.  Welcome to the whole danged forum, @Lucia  Excellent assumptions! 

[Lord of Raventree Hall]

18 hours ago, Megorova said:

1. Bloodraven never said that he is the Three-Eyed Crow. Cold Hands never said that he will bring Bran and Co to the 3EC. George Martin never said that Bloodraven is the 3EC (what he ACTUALLY said about the 3EC is a big hint about 3EC's identity). I found in the books 13+ hints that Bloodraven is not the 3EC, and 19+ clues that the 3EC is Shiera. For example, her "third eye" is Euron Greyjoy, her ex-apprentice, whose nickname is the Crow's Eye, because thru blood magic his dark eye is binded to Shiera, she is able to see thru his eye, that's why he's covering that eye, to prevent her from spying after him, because he betrayed her, and is using what he learned from her to become a winnner in a Big Game.

2. ASOIAF is a mixture of GRRM's original ideas (also he's using previous history to give hints about upcoming events. For example, in The Mystery Knight Ambrose's dragon egg was stolen by mummer-dwarfs, and prior events of AGOT Dany's three dragon eggs were retrieved from the Sealord of Braavos also by mummer-dwarfs), Biblical elements (a LOT of them), Irish and Welsh mythology, Northern mythology, Arthurian legends, The Lord of the Rings and Hobbit, and many others. This thread is an evidence of that: https://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/784-references-and-homages/

Lightbringer is an obvious hint to King Arthur's Excalibur and Aragorn's Anduril. Jon/Aegon VII Targaryen, Arthur Pendragon, Aragorn is an obvious variations of the word dragon. Etc., etc., etc. So it's not impossible or even unlikely that Shiera and Bloodraven were written by GRRM as parallels to previously existing characters created by other writers. 

Dany promised a Valyrian Steel blade to Jorah, thus eventually Jon will give Longclaw back to a Mormont. Jon's sword is Lightbringer, Dawn of Daynes. Furthermore, Barristan is, most likely, a Blackfyre and fAegon's father (the mother is septa Lemore/Lady Jayne Swann, and Barristan's mother is Aenys Blackfyre's daughter. Aenys, most likely, was executed with Dark Sister, thus it will be ironic if Aenys' grandson, Barri, will become a wielder of that sword and will try to kill a Targaryen with it). So if Dany will give that sword to Barristan, then probably he will try to kill her with it, when he will find out that fAegon is his son, and he will have to chose either to kill his son or to kill his Queen (the last out of three treasons predicted by the Undying, the treason for love). And we know how similar dilemma was solved by Jaime Lannister - he chose family over duty, when Aerys ordered him to kill Tywin.

Lol. I haven't been on here in awhile, and came back as I started my fourth reread in hope that The Winds of Winter will come out soon, and I can honestly say I missed these batsh*t crazy theories presented as fact, lol. So much confidence in their like 25 step interrelated plan to somehow all take place in the next book, lol. 

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

2 hours ago, Curled Finger said:

How utterly BAD ASS would a thing (Dark Sister) have to be to have belonged to fricken Daemon Targaryan, The Rogue Prince?  I don't have an absolutely clear pulse on who will get this sword, but the magic and ruthlessness associated with DS is undeniable by virtue of those who have already wielded it.    I ask you, Brother, can you identify a character in current times more magical or brutal than Lady Arya Stark?   

Maybe Euron but in my humble opinion Arya will match his brutality (not his sadistic nature) but be equally as brutal. And her combination of mummers tricks and magic will be 2nd to none come spring. 

 

I think Daemon T is on the short list of coolest and most badass characters. I despise GRRM's decision to have criston cole defeat him in that melee while daemon had dark sister

[Curled Finger]

1 hour ago, One-eyed Misbehavin said:

Maybe Euron but in my humble opinion Arya will match his brutality (not his sadistic nature) but be equally as brutal. And her combination of mummers tricks and magic will be 2nd to none come spring. 

 

I think Daemon T is on the short list of coolest and most badass characters. I despise GRRM's decision to have criston cole defeat him in that melee while daemon had dark sister

There, we did it again.  Dark Sister is the sword of badasses.  

You know, that melee always bugged me too.  Criston Turncloak Cole?  Really, George?  I have to leave it with that defeat being the inspiration for Daemon to step up his seduction of Rhaenyra.  Never Again type of thing.  I got nothing else for it.  

Do you think Euron will get his slimy paws on a magical sword?   Something to match his bitchen magical suit?  He's got Nightfall right there with him or close enough not to matter.  He gave VS trinkets away at the Kingsmoot.  Do you think it doesn't matter to him? I've got an alternate magical weapons scenario if he does get it, the creep.  Wouldn't he be more likely to go for the Kraken Summoning Horn on Claw Isle?  

[Megorova]

20 hours ago, Lord of Raventree Hall said:

Lol. I haven't been on here in awhile, and came back as I started my fourth reread in hope that The Winds of Winter will come out soon, and I can honestly say I missed these batsh*t crazy theories presented as fact, lol. So much confidence in their like 25 step interrelated plan to somehow all take place in the next book, lol. 

You may start your fifth reread, because GRRM isn't going to release TWOW this year.

Edit: The thing is, even if he will finish TWOW's manuscript this year, the book won't be published. Because nearly all publishers decided to move publication dates from this year to 2021, because of COVID. And they really did it. I was waiting for a certain book, that was supposed to be published this week, but instead of going on sale, it was rescheduled to next June. So, there will be no TWOW this year.

[One-eyed Misbehavin]

1 hour ago, Curled Finger said:

There, we did it again.  Dark Sister is the sword of badasses.  

You know, that melee always bugged me too.  Criston Turncloak Cole?  Really, George?  I have to leave it with that defeat being the inspiration for Daemon to step up his seduction of Rhaenyra.  Never Again type of thing.  I got nothing else for it.  

Do you think Euron will get his slimy paws on a magical sword?   Something to match his bitchen magical suit?  He's got Nightfall right there with him or close enough not to matter.  He gave VS trinkets away at the Kingsmoot.  Do you think it doesn't matter to him? I've got an alternate magical weapons scenario if he does get it, the creep.  Wouldn't he be more likely to go for the Kraken Summoning Horn on Claw Isle?  

I have so much to say about all of this.

Yes it is. The most badass sword lineage bar none

As for the seduction element. Thats so daemon it's not funny. Ive always believed that rhanerya shot criston cole down but love your input of daemon taking tbe melee peraonal in regards to the realms delight. Idk how the timeline holds to that but I certainly could see it

You gotta have the sword to match the armor. Id have to double check his proximity to nightfall and red rain but both of those swords sound like they should belong to Euron Greyjoy. The kraken we can only pray for TWOW forsaken chapter

gave me hope. Lucas Codd said some wild shit. And he is merely Euron's thrall